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canarydan23

Merson's Gambling Documentary

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I watched it Dan. Very sad, especially the group who have had family members commit suicide.

Some of the ‘tricks’ these gambling companies use to keep already ‘addicted’ people gambling are vile and disgusting.

Glad we campaigned to change our shirt sponsors before this season, shame other clubs didn’t do the same.
Hopefully the time will come when the government change the rules surrounding gambling to protect vulnerable people.

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11 minutes ago, pearsos said:

Glad we campaigned to change our shirt sponsors before this season

That was nothing to do with gambling though.

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Just now, KeiranShikari said:

That was nothing to do with gambling though.

Other than the sponsors being a gambling company? 

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1 minute ago, Greavsy said:

Other than the sponsors being a gambling company? 

Yes but that clearly wasn't the reason was it? Otherwise the same thing would've happened to Dafabet and Leovegas...

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8 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Missed that, but keen to get on catchup.

Where was it on please?

It's on BBC iPlayer.

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3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes but that clearly wasn't the reason was it? Otherwise the same thing would've happened to Dafabet and Leovegas...

Fair point,  but maybe, together with their advertising style, people had had enough. Interesting to see if we ever have another gambling company sponsor us, unless govt legislation intervenes. 

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In years to come when people look back they will be amazed at the exposure we have allowed society to have to so many widespread and endorsed promotions of gambling, so many lives ruined.

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Some of the brain research on the programme was staggering, in that it seemed to identify a genetic disposition to addiction, and in Merson's case to gambling in particular. His own phrase was 'It's in me'. Others just refer to an "addictive personality" to explain their dependence.

Gambling, like alcohol, tobacco, pornography etc is a drug for some people and just as we don't allow certain advertising or sponsorship for those, we shouldn't allow the gambling companies to prey on the vulnerable or the young.

The attachment to football over the last 30 years, rather than racing which by comparison is now low key, is particularly pernicious.

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1 hour ago, Van wink said:

In years to come when people look back they will be amazed at the exposure we have allowed society to have to so many widespread and endorsed promotions of gambling, so many lives ruined.

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

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6 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

You should watch it, I suspect you'll find it hard to retain that opinion.

Someone dies every single day in the UK from gambling-related suicide. The brain activity study they did showed that gambling addicts are triggered more by images of roulette wheels than they are even by images that invoke thoughts of family and friendship. That's a chemical reaction, not a choice, so it's difficult to view their addiction as anything other than an illness or at the very least, the same as physical addictions to drugs like heroin.

You would never expose a heroin addict trying to get clean to images of people shooting up. Yet gambling addicts, a trait that continues to cause suicide, are forced to face images of gambling absolutely everywhere.

As the documentary showed, the industry relies on income from addicts and as such, they have data-driven campaigns to target them.

It's absolutely obscene. If you'd have asked me yesterday I think I would have been in a similar camp to you. I bought last season's kit with Dafabet across the front and regularly wore it out and about. I won't be anymore. Hearing from a widow who lost her husband to suicide following gambling addiction, about how her partner was mercilessly targeted by gambling companies despite betting patterns that made it patently obvious he had a problem, is enough to change one's mind.

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7 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

Some people are susceptible,  some aren't,  right through the spectrum of addictions. I'm sure ther is a 3d ven diagram  somewhere  that would illustrate  this, but sone people( maybe Merson is one) are in the 'eye of the storm'. .... and are virtually powerless  to resist.

The most pernicious  thing about gambling is that  , unlike drink or drugs , you don't fall over, you can keep going well beyond  your means .

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8 minutes ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

I agree up to a point, but it's about how some people have addictive personalities and can't help themselves once they are hooked on something, whether it's shopping, drinking, sex, gambling or anything else.  It is to what extent getting hooked on any particular activity is damaging - and gambling/drinking are two that if you get hooked, are very damaging - hence the extra onus on those who advertise those activities to show responsibility. 

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4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

hence the extra onus on those who advertise those activities to show responsibility. 

Disagree. I've long given up on letting businesses take the lead. Whilst I find it abhorrent, there seems to be an acceptance among society that if a company is operating within the limits of the laws of the land, then fair play to them. For me, I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was presiding over business practices that are contributing to individuals killing themselves, but it appears that sentiment isn't as prevalent as it should be.

Given that, the onus is on the government to force companies to act responsibly. Gambling needs to be as restricted as smoking in where and when it can advertise.

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39 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Disagree. I've long given up on letting businesses take the lead. Whilst I find it abhorrent, there seems to be an acceptance among society that if a company is operating within the limits of the laws of the land, then fair play to them. For me, I couldn't sleep at night knowing I was presiding over business practices that are contributing to individuals killing themselves, but it appears that sentiment isn't as prevalent as it should be.

Given that, the onus is on the government to force companies to act responsibly. Gambling needs to be as restricted as smoking in where and when it can advertise.

That is the whole thing isn't it? You see it in all sorts of topics, anyone expresses a moral objection or suggests a company should do something for moral rather than legal reasons you'll immediately get someone claiming you're just virtue signalling or similar.

As capitalism has evolved it has shown more and more that companies can't be relied on to make choices that do anything other than enhance profits/shareholder values. You get the occasional one who does but they are few and far between. Self regulation patently doesn't work so Governments need to step in to reign in the worst excesses of these vampire companies. 

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1 hour ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

It’s as addictive as any drug, different scenario to advertising products and services.

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1 hour ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

I think Merson said - perhaps not in this documentary but another interview - you can only bung so much coke up your nose or pints of lager down your neck, both of which he also did. In other words gambling can clean your bank account without having a tangible or physical change. It's numbers in a bank account. You could go mad on cars, TVs etc, but you've got to put them somewhere, bet a million quid on a horse and who's to know? 

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I gather from Wikipedia that Denise Coates,  billionaire founder, majority shareholder and joint chief executive of Bet365 was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for services to the community and business.

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43 minutes ago, El Convento said:

I gather from Wikipedia that Denise Coates,  billionaire founder, majority shareholder and joint chief executive of Bet365 was appointed a Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) for services to the community and business.

For services to her own conscience. Easier to sleep at night when you can focus your attention on the charitable works of your foundation. As long as a percentage of you ill-gotten gains goes on philanthropy you can ignore the kids left without their Dad after his gambling addiction led him on a one-way trip to Beachy Head.

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7 hours ago, All the Germans said:

Caveat - I didn't watch it.

I genuinely find it hard to see this viewpoint. There is advertisements and hooks / exposure for everything, everywhere, I don't get the outrage against gambling when adverts for all items are trying to get you to waste your money on other things you don't need and potentially can't afford . If you don't want to gamble, don't, if you don't want to buy something that people are advertising, don't. It's the same thing in my mind. My intention is not to belittle the problem (although I accept that I may be), it just doesn't compute in my brain what the problem is and how it differs from everything else that essentially tries to suck money from you. I am not a gambler (although I did do some matched betting to use all of the sign up offers to guarantee a profit and then delete the apps and never use them again), so perhaps I am not exposed enough to understand.

It would be pretty hard to lose your house to the pernicious effect of mars bar adverts though wouldn't it. It's pretty much one of the few addictions that you can lose everything in a second on.

Generally whatever the vice, I tend to feel it should be legal but advertising should be banned and it should be regulated heavily. People will always have their weaknesses, pushing it underground doesn't stop that, but openly promoting is a failure of the state and society to protect people from those who might prey on those weaknesses.

In terms of gambling. The number of high street bookies should be far more limited, internet gambling should be exceptionally heavily regulated and bookies shouldn't be allowed to advertise. 

I also think, perhaps most controversially, that daily limits should be imposed.

Edited by 1902
Pray on those weaknesses is pretty different to prey on them.
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I started gambling on football in the mid 80's, whilst underage. Just 50p or a quid on an accumulator. I don't think single bets were allowed back then

Late 80's I can remember placing £100 on a treble, which came in 😎, but after that gambling became an occasional thing

An ex girlfriend and I opened up an internet account in the late 2000's and we would bet tenners for a bit of fun

After we split, I started gambling quite big for  a couple of years.  £20's and £50's most weeks  with a more than occasional big bet. The largest bets I made were £500, placed in notes. 

This was the first time I felt a real rush. Walking in the bookies with a big pile of notes and walking up to the counter. Smiling at the assistant as I put the betting slip on the counter. Looking in their eyes when they saw the amount I wanted to bet.

"I just need to make a call to see if we can accept this"

Sometimes they refused. That gave me a high too. I wanted a £500 bet on Man U to beat Norwich when Giggs was in charge for the first time turned down. I was always backing against Norwich by this time as I felt it would jinx them if I put money  on them to win. Totally irrational. As it turned out, they would only accept £90, so I walked out.

Placing bets that size was exciting. All the other punters sensed something was going on. I'm sure many bets bigger than mine get placed, but at the time I felt like I was the king of the punters.

I had £500 on Fulham to beat Norwich before we broke our bad run against them. An intended jinx bet, but it ended up with me being paid out over a grand. Funny, but collecting the money wasn't as much fun as placing the bet

I still used to use the old internet account that I had with the ex for a while. When I moved to Iceland I found out that I needed a VPN to access it as it seems many forms of gambling are illegal here 

All the bets I ever made was with money that I could afford to lose, even if it hurt a bit. I think I ended up £300 or so down when I was betting a lot of money 

I haven't gambled for the 2 years since the internet account went to zero. I  don't miss it and it isn't something I think I will return to...and if I do, it will only be money that I can afford to lose 

Gambling is just the same as something like drugs, in my mind. And it cripples people that can't afford to lose money, but chase their losses

Such a high, though.....

Edited by How I Wrote Elastic Man

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There is no doubt that gambling is a bit of a grimey industry and some of the marketing techniques they use are morally questionable... I'm of the belief that most people who are addicted to something have an underlying issue which needs to be resolved, and that until that is resolved they will only replace one addiction with another.

Paul Merson has been a problem drinker, he's been a cocaine user, and he's now blown a load of money on gambling. It is easy to blame the alcohol companies, or the gambling companies, or colombian drug gangs, or the government, but ultimately he clearly has some unresolved psychological issues which manifests into a high susceptibility to mental addiction or to have periods of simply being self destructive.

I've dabbled in all of the things that Merson has had a problem with, and haven't developed an issue with any of them. Now, had I experienced say childhood trauma or gone to Iraq and come back with PTSD that could be a different story.

Edited by TeemuVanBasten
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57 minutes ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

When the FUN stops, STOP 

Like that's gonna work.

Clears their conscience. 

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9 hours ago, Wings of a Sparrow said:

When the FUN stops, STOP 

Like that's gonna work.

Please drink responsibly.Bollox really when you see it on drinks like Jagermeister.🤨

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12 minutes ago, Herman said:

Please drink responsibly.Bollox really when you see it on drinks like Jagermeister.🤨

Yep. By the time you've got onto them, it's far too late.

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