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Vacancy: Finance Apprentice

CLUB

20 hours ago

Location: Carrow Road, Norwich, NR1 1JE

Contract and hours: 18-month fixed term contract, 40 hours per week, Monday to Friday inclusive

Salary: £10.400 per annum, plus company benefits

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£5.42 per hour. Absolutely disgusting NCFC. My entry level warehouse picker/packers earn double that. Shame on you NCFC. "Norfolk Thrift" right there.  

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Ouch... I'm pretty sure I have a friend who can get more from the Government for sitting on the sofa all year round. This country has gone to pot! 

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4 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

£5.42 per hour. Absolutely disgusting NCFC. My entry level warehouse picker/packers earn double that. Shame on you NCFC. "Norfolk Thrift" right there.  

Plus benefits though, dinner at Yellows on pay day and free tickets for reserve matches? 

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Just think, after the 18 months is up and you inevetably get "let go" you could up your wages by nearly 50% and become a cleaner! More time off to help make our kits in the sweat shop thats under the Holiday Inn (probably)  

https://www.canaries.co.uk/content/vacancy-cleaner

Contract and Hours: Permanent, 30 hours per week, as and when required

Salary: £14,820 14,82per annum, plus company benefits

 

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35 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

£5.42 per hour. Absolutely disgusting NCFC. My entry level warehouse picker/packers earn double that. Shame on you NCFC. "Norfolk Thrift" right there.  

That's the apprenticeship going rate i'm afraid. There's OJT and college to consider too.

Would be a decent job for someone interested in a career in finance and a city supporter. 

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22 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

My entry level warehouse picker/packers earn double that.

And they probably get a 3 month probation/on-site training which is local to your facility... And then for the majority the same routine for the rest of their life, unless they move on to something new -  Your pay is based around holding staff who can walk into other jobs at the same rate.

This is a full-on apprenticeship which includes a national AAT qualification at a well renowned organisation, if you were employing for that role are you saying you'd pay a 16-18 year old 20k and put them through external courses?  This will be aimed at KS5 students.

Personally, I think it's a great opportunity, I came through the YT system and benefitted hugely from it.  Says in the job description that they're wanting an experienced person at the end of it so it's with a longterm plan too.

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11 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

And they probably get a 3 month probation/on-site training which is local to your facility... And then for the majority the same routine for the rest of their life, unless they move on to something new -  Your pay is based around holding staff who can walk into other jobs at the same rate.

This is a full-on apprenticeship which includes a national AAT qualification at a well renowned organisation, if you were employing for that role are you saying you'd pay a 16-18 year old 20k and put them through external courses?  This will be aimed at KS5 students.

Personally, I think it's a great opportunity, I came through the YT system and benefitted hugely from it.  Says in the job description that they're wanting an experienced person at the end of it so it's with a longterm plan too.

That makes a lot of sense. 

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It's an apprenticeship and admin/finance style work is notoriously hard to get into if you don't have any prior experience. The club would be paying them less sure but they're also training this person and then that gives them the opportunity to find other jobs in this field in the future. Looks like a good opportunity to me. 

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32 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

And they probably get a 3 month probation/on-site training which is local to your facility... And then for the majority the same routine for the rest of their life, unless they move on to something new -  Your pay is based around holding staff who can walk into other jobs at the same rate.

This is a full-on apprenticeship which includes a national AAT qualification at a well renowned organisation, if you were employing for that role are you saying you'd pay a 16-18 year old 20k and put them through external courses?  This will be aimed at KS5 students.

Personally, I think it's a great opportunity, I came through the YT system and benefitted hugely from it.  Says in the job description that they're wanting an experienced person at the end of it so it's with a longterm plan too.

I think you need to look into the apprenticeship levy.

The club will reclaim all costs of employing this person through the levy scheme, including the education aspect / AAT.

The club pays 0.5% of their annual salary bill into the government scheme, and that means that they are entitled to claim up to the same back by employing their own apprentices or putting their existing employees through formal education.

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Posted (edited)

I understand the arguments that it's an apprentice, but it's also symptomatic of the UK's attitude to training staff.

Companies should be paying their apprentices or trainees decently and trying to get them to stay with the company. This would build loyalty amongst employees so that the constant cycle of lost productivity and poor institutional knowledge caused by the revolving door of workers stops.

Edited by 1902
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39 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I think you need to look into the apprenticeship levy.

The club will reclaim all costs of employing this person through the levy scheme, including the education aspect / AAT.

I used to be involved in these schemes at my old job, so I know how it works, if you know the right people and they're up the funding ladder you can work all kinds of deals with someone's signature.  I hated the whole system if I'm honest, corrupt to the core.

Anyway, My point is that taking on KS5 level apprentice with long-term aspirations is in no way comparable to a 3 month 'on-the-job' probation that typical production/warehouse workers receive, most of which are running a household and needing to support themselves.

While I love that kids can take up creative subjects at colleges such as photography, drama, game design, music etc.  Many of them have to start again once they're out, conversely, having 10k in your pocket each year so you can learn to manage your own finances.  Plus working towards a qualification is a great way of making that transition from high school to working environments.

As it's generally not acceptable to actively seek out employment based on age ranges, these schemes allows a way of casting that net in the disposable income waters. Whoever takes this opportunity will most likely be better off in regards to spending money than most people who post here - so it's really not as poor as some try to make out.  Particularly as it's clear they want an experienced member at the end of it, which would suggest further progression.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I used to be involved in these schemes at my old job, so I know how it works, if you know the right people and they're up the funding ladder you can work all kinds of deals with someone's signature.  I hated the whole system if I'm honest, corrupt to the core.

Anyway, My point is that taking on KS5 level apprentice with long-term aspirations is in no way comparable to a 3 month 'on-the-job' probation that typical production/warehouse workers receive, most of which are running a household and needing to support themselves.

While I love that kids can take up creative subjects at colleges such as photography, drama, game design, music etc.  Many of them have to start again once they're out, conversely, having 10k in your pocket each year so you can learn to manage your own finances.  Plus working towards a qualification is a great way of making that transition from high school to working environments.

As it's generally not acceptable to actively seek out employment based on age ranges, these schemes allows a way of casting that net in the disposable income waters. Whoever takes this opportunity will most likely be better off in regards to spending money than most people who post here - so it's really not as poor as some try to make out.  Particularly as it's clear they want an experienced member at the end of it, which would suggest further progression.

I agree, mostly, people also not considering that the primary / most common alternative is to load up on £50k of debt to go to uni.

When you consider that.... its a good deal! 

My employer offered me the chance to do a free MBA funded from the apprenticeship levy, I turned it down, but feels like the title might be a bit misleading when it came be used to fund courses for senior management / executives / higher grade analysts etc. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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3 hours ago, SteveN8458 said:

That's less than i was on when I was an apprentice back in 1976.

Average wages for UK men in 1976 was around £70 per week £3,500 pa.

were you an apprentice millionaire?

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5 minutes ago, ricardo said:

Average wages for UK men in 1976 was around £70 per week £3,500 pa.

were you an apprentice millionaire?

Let me introduce you to a little thing called inflation...

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3 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

Let me introduce you to a little thing called inflation...

That's what she said.

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Also, this seems like another attempt at a stick with which to beat the club without much basis.

They could get away with paying £4.30 an hour if they were the nefarious scrooges people seem to be trying to make out, which is over 10% less than what the club are offering for this apprenticeship. 

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2 hours ago, Google Bot said:

And they probably get a 3 month probation/on-site training which is local to your facility... And then for the majority the same routine for the rest of their life, unless they move on to something new -  Your pay is based around holding staff who can walk into other jobs at the same rate.

This is a full-on apprenticeship which includes a national AAT qualification at a well renowned organisation, if you were employing for that role are you saying you'd pay a 16-18 year old 20k and put them through external courses?  This will be aimed at KS5 students.

Personally, I think it's a great opportunity, I came through the YT system and benefitted hugely from it.  Says in the job description that they're wanting an experienced person at the end of it so it's with a longterm plan too.

Well done for having a wild stab about my company and although you have some valid point of the training (of which NCFC will claim a lot of back via grants), you have me and my company all wrong Mr Bot. My oldest previous warehouse trainee, at the grand old age of 25 is now the warehouse manager after countless training programs of which he had zero experience of before he started. He’s versed in all the right programs which he can take elsewhere if he chooses…oh?! but he’s respected as an employee like the rest of my staff and the wages match that, so no one seems to ever leave. Its long term thinking and it works for me and mine…you don’t have to be a c**t to be a boss. Plus I can look myself in the mirror whilst brushing my teeth unlike someone advertising that job up there 👆#moderndayslavery

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Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

Well done for having a wild stab about my company and although you have some valid point of the training (of which NCFC will claim a lot of back via grants), you have me and my company all wrong Mr Bot.

So you don't offer a probation period which includes on-site training for your entry level warehouse staff then? 

And your pay isn't in direct relation to what they can walk into elsewhere?

That's pretty much the wild stab I took, and it's based on my own experiences more than a real estimate of your company, of course.

43 minutes ago, spencer 1970 said:

you don’t have to be a c**t to be a boss. Plus I can look myself in the mirror whilst brushing my teeth unlike someone advertising that job up there

Not sure about that, I was a boss and not a c**t and failed pretty bad at it, at least mentally took it's toll.  Was too sensitive and trusting in people's needs and got royally stitched up.  That said, I inherited people in wrong positions purely due to wage structure and how that related to their position in the company... moan.. groan.. etc. 🙂

As i see it, this job is a very clearly defined opportunity to earn money whilst earning at young age, with a long-term aim to being an experienced member.  I'd imagine you offer a sink or float style probation method as we used to, and then pick the cream that rises over a number of months or years.   

To me, it's just incomparable vs a niche admin job in a well established organisation, versus rattling themselves in debt and still ending up in a warehouse! (Sorry lol) 🙂

Edited by Google Bot

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The rate of £5.42 per hour is above the mimimum wage for an apprentice which is £4.30, so it is not as cheap skating as some would have you believe.  It is an apprenticeship after all and if it was a full blown job would be subject to the national minimum wage, which would obviously be more. It's a good opportunity for someone to get a foothold and a start in a career. Don't knock it.

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1 hour ago, ricardo said:

Average wages for UK men in 1976 was around £70 per week £3,500 pa.

were you an apprentice millionaire?

Hmmmmmmmm, could I have been on £10+/wk?? my memory is shot!!!

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Just now, SteveN8458 said:

Hmmmmmmmm, could I have been on £10+/wk?? my memory is shot!!!

Excess imbibement tends to have that effect😉

You could buy a decent 3 bedroom bungalow for less than £10K in 1976.

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1 hour ago, canarydan23 said:

Let me introduce you to a little thing called inflation...

Schrader..enfreude?.....

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46 minutes ago, ricardo said:

You could buy a decent 3 bedroom bungalow for less than £10K in 1976.

Few years off - But central heating was £7k extra, at least in Stoke. 🙂

gFNQ2bddav6nEsUp5i58_Wx2AQ0LgE3bb07tQfFb

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4 hours ago, Google Bot said:

So you don't offer a probation period which includes on-site training for your entry level warehouse staff then? 

And your pay isn't in direct relation to what they can walk into elsewhere?

That's pretty much the wild stab I took, and it's based on my own experiences more than a real estimate of your company, of course.

Not sure about that, I was a boss and not a c**t and failed pretty bad at it, at least mentally took it's toll.  Was too sensitive and trusting in people's needs and got royally stitched up.  That said, I inherited people in wrong positions purely due to wage structure and how that related to their position in the company... moan.. groan.. etc. 🙂

As i see it, this job is a very clearly defined opportunity to earn money whilst earning at young age, with a long-term aim to being an experienced member.  I'd imagine you offer a sink or float style probation method as we used to, and then pick the cream that rises over a number of months or years.   

To me, it's just incomparable vs a niche admin job in a well established organisation, versus rattling themselves in debt and still ending up in a warehouse! (Sorry lol) 🙂

Definitely not assuming you to be the c**t boss…not unless you’d put a UK human on £5 an hour and claim a lot of it back from the “system”. 👀

Ahhh, leave my warehouse folk alone. Zero school qualifications and £30k a year at 25? Its not too shabby and that probably the top 10% in Norfolk no? Plus, not everyone has the luxury of earning F all as a kid whilst the live at home with mum; son. 😜

Anyway, I’m proud to pay it knowing a university graduate now data-entry admin noob at Universal Music who gets to wear nice clobber in a swanky office earns nothing near my warehouse lads and gets treated like shizzle. 

“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”  Hunter S. Thompson

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1 hour ago, spencer 1970 said:

Definitely not assuming you to be the c**t boss…not unless you’d put a UK human on £5 an hour and claim a lot of it back from the “system”. 👀

Well, it's more complicated when you're part of a larger corporate with shareholders as I found myself in.  So would do that as everything is about cost cutting, and trying to get through the backlog of work with about 80% of the required staff whilst maintaining and monitoring OTD% - if product isn't being delivered at a competitive price there's no jobs, and that's the long and short of it. 

But I guess that's the general state of engineering/manufacturing in this country, really.

In regards to the club, on one hand they're throwing 10-20k a week to someone for sitting on a bench, and then ~200 quid a week to an accountancy job which they see the majority back plus other benefits.  It seems truly outrageous when placed in that context.

But regardless I still maintain that this is a nice position for anyone in those KS5 years particularly if they're fond of the club.  These systems exist to get people in jobs and on the training ladder, I really don't think you're a 'C' for offering it out.  It's how it develops that's key.

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