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cambridgeshire canary

What causes the white British middle class to act like this?

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48 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Acting like children..

I think it has something to do with the impending climate crisis catastrophe. Remember those aristocratic and upper class white English women who bombed buildings, smashed windows, and threw themselves in front of race horses? I wonder how their cause went?

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I hope the Insulate Britain people are going to offset the carbon emissions they've caused from the mass idling of vehicles during their protests...otherwise, it would seem a very contradictory way to protest and I'm sure Greta would be very ticked off.¬†ūü§£

Apples 

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Insulate Britain v Isolate Britain. One may be annoying behavior but hopefully only temporary, the other .... 

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After reading that the whole of Norwich has just moved to Barnet.ūüėÄ

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well, Mrs. Beith, who wrote a right old rant in the i paper last weekend, on how ordinary working people are held up going about their business, due to Insulate Britain NOW, praising the Conservatives for their road building in Norfolk, ensuring that we all can carry on as usual, were it not for the Green Party activists, she never would vote for them ever,  behaving like the lazy layabouts they are....etc.etc. seems to think that as long she can motor about in her 4x4 at her wills content......she ...k right off with her ignorant views.

Does she think that the Queens highway is just for cars? does she think that we can carry on with a decentralized society on a short term supply chain after voting for the most stupid move in History to get out of Europe and paddle towards oblivion neverland will ensure that she is alright?

To ignore the increasing impact of the climate chaos and stick your head in the sand whistlin that much loved German composer, Elgar, unfortunately leaves your bare backside exposed to all comers.

To maliciously accuse the Green Party to be behind the current protests, just because some of their thinking members are daring to get criminalised by this bunch of ignorant oafs and their political expedient policing, should lay her open for a lawsuit. How dare she accuses people with conviction and more brain cells than her, of being lazy and obstructive.

rant over, I'm sure Mrs. Beith is just a Tory plant writing what they are all thinking.

 

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Posted (edited)

Right bunch of selfish ****. That bricklayer leader of their’s is a hypocrite and a facist. He don’t even insulate his own home and does not care one iota about all the problems his organisations road blocking actions cause.

On GMB, he was asked about a woman who nearly died on her way to a hospital and if she did die, it would have been their fault. When asked if he had any compassion, he just dodged the question and went on about his scummy organisations beliefs. He couldn’t stand the heat so stormed off throwing his toys away.

They keep getting worse and even are asking for donations now. That idiot gluing himself to the floor near the bridge. I hope he’s still stuck there.

Edited by KernowCanary

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On 04/10/2021 at 13:33, cambridgeshire canary said:

Acting like children..

Well done to those doing the job of the police properly by hauling them off the road like the bits of dirt they really are.

Just what has blocking roads disrupting normal daily lives, got to do with insulating people’s homes?.

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On 04/10/2021 at 14:25, horsefly said:

I think it has something to do with the impending climate crisis catastrophe. Remember those aristocratic and upper class white English women who bombed buildings, smashed windows, and threw themselves in front of race horses? I wonder how their cause went?

I'm really not at all surprised to see you advocating bombing buildings, smashing windows and hopefully throwing yourself in front of a racehorse.

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7 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

I'm really not at all surprised to see you advocating bombing buildings, smashing windows and hopefully throwing yourself in front of a racehorse.

I won't be taking any lessons from the degenerate who supports paedophile rapists with your comment that Epstein's child rape victims were nothing more than "well paid prostitutes". 

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We know they are stupid in the way they are going about their protests. It isn't helping their cause because they are alienating most of the thickos who say there isn't climate change.

Chain yourselves to railings might be better.

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They won't get their message across without this kind of direct action, but also this direct action is pissing off the wrong people. Bit of a conundrum. 

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10 minutes ago, Herman said:

They won't get their message across without this kind of direct action, but also this direct action is pissing off the wrong people.

I'm all for protesting, but the protests are so very middle class¬†and lacking any kind of coherence/understanding¬†of the issues or the audience there's a danger the old "metropolitan elite telling people what to do" chestnut gets rolled out again...and look where that got us last time.ūü§¶‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹūü§£

Apples

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I do get that Apples, but I am uncertain what they can do instead. Peaceful protest doesn't work as it wouldn't get any press coverage. 

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If it was me I would put my efforts into a recognised environmental charity who have full-time professionals directing structured campaigns/activities and know what they're doing. IB looks like it meets at Islington Community Centre, every second Tuesday, and has got a job lot of second-hand orange high-viz jackets. 

By targeting the public, all they'll end up doing is muddling the message and alienating people (and people are already confused and angry enough as it is).

Apples

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3 hours ago, Herman said:

I do get that Apples, but I am uncertain what they can do instead. Peaceful protest doesn't work as it wouldn't get any press coverage. 

It would if the police attacked them as they have been doing with other peaceful protesters this year ūüėÉ

But on a more serious note you are quite right - both the press and more importantly the government have been told countless times over the last ten years by pretty much every environmental and climate group that insulating this country's appallingly poor housing stock would be one of the measures most cost effective and beneficial to the environment that could be undertaken. It would be win-win on several levels.

The government hasnt taken a blind bit of notice - the HoC declared a climate emergency two and a half years ago and the Tory government(s) haven't done a single thing to react to that 'emergency'.  In fact they've done worse than nothing, in trying to open a new coalmine and oilfields they are committed to making the emergency worse.

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25 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

 

But on a more serious note you are quite right - both the press and more importantly the government have been told countless times over the last ten years by pretty much every environmental and climate group that insulating this country's appallingly poor housing stock would be one of the measures most cost effective and beneficial to the environment that could be undertaken. It would be win-win 

I agree with most of this, energy demand is at least as important as  energy supply in controlling co2 emissions

Domestic housing causes 25% of all carbon emissions so energy efficiency in housing  is very important and the steps are much easier to take than building a whole new wind farm or nuclear power plant.

It is however not the case that nothing has been done. All new houses, all houses extended in a meaningful way and all social housing needs to meet modern, and very high, standards of thermal insulation.  Also there are some pretty generous grants for insulation in houses that don't meet the above. 

 Given the above whilst i  agree that insulation is an easy win with benefits to the individual and the globe I'm not sure exactly what this group demands.  This makes me wonder what the purpose actually is.

These protestors seem to be causing a lot of upset just to make an ill-defined demand. Maybe they just enjoy the attention and camaraderie and the rest is secondary?

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1 hour ago, Barbe bleu said:

I agree with most of this, energy demand is at least as important as  energy supply in controlling co2 emissions

Domestic housing causes 25% of all carbon emissions so energy efficiency in housing  is very important and the steps are much easier to take than building a whole new wind farm or nuclear power plant.

It is however not the case that nothing has been done. All new houses, all houses extended in a meaningful way and all social housing needs to meet modern, and very high, standards of thermal insulation.  Also there are some pretty generous grants for insulation in houses that don't meet the above. 

 Given the above whilst i  agree that insulation is an easy win with benefits to the individual and the globe I'm not sure exactly what this group demands.  This makes me wonder what the purpose actually is.

These protestors seem to be causing a lot of upset just to make an ill-defined demand. Maybe they just enjoy the attention and camaraderie and the rest is secondary?

Well we are certainly agreed on the question of sensibly reducing energy demand and you are right that insulation standards have improved somewhat for new builds but I think you greatly exaggerate the extent of the improvement - if memory serves the improved insulation standards pre-date the declaration of the climate emergency so don't represent 'action' since then and although they are indisputably an improvement on our previously very low standards they were still regarded as very unambitious by the experts. The original proposal brought forward by the government was that all new houses would be built to Passivhaus standards (I think this was around 2015) and that was substantially watered down after intensive lobbying by the big building firms - there's a surprise!!

I think your characterisation of the IB protests is entirely unfair - I'm puzzled as to why you consider their demands 'ill-defined', they seem pretty clear to me and I think they are far more substantive than the 'attention seekers' you suggest but let me make just tow points;

  • Firstly, whatever we think about the improvements that have been made to insulation standards, and useful though they may be, they are essentially token gestures. We build relatively few new homes nowadays and the big issue/potential win has always been the improvement of the many millions of very poorly insulated homes within the UK. This is the issue which IB are campaigning on and which successive Tory governments have ignored - I'm not even counting the two, or was it three, utterly useless and ridiculous schemes which they launched and collapsed without achieving anything.

  • Secondly, whilst I personally wouldn't necessarily approve or support the methods IB has used, as Herman has already pointed out, they have succeded in getting an important issue into the headlines which is something a huge amount of moderate and 'reasonable' campaigning has totally failed to do. I think that has a much wider message about the many failings of UK society, and what we laughingly call our 'democracy', in the 21st century that a group of people has to resort to these lengths to get a hearing for something about which virtually all experts and scientists agree on but a tin-eared government continues to ignore. As Herman said, what else can they do because I'm pretty sure every other avenue has already been tried to zero effect.

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Well we are certainly agreed on the question of sensibly reducing energy demand and you are right that insulation standards have improved somewhat for new builds but I think you greatly exaggerate the extent of the improvement - if memory serves the improved insulation standards pre-date the declaration of the climate emergency so don't represent 'action' since then and although they are indisputably an improvement on our previously very low standards they were still regarded as very unambitious by the experts. The original proposal brought forward by the government was that all new houses would be built to Passivhaus standards (I think this was around 2015) and that was substantially watered down after intensive lobbying by the big building firms - there's a surprise!!

 

I think your characterisation of the IB protests is entirely unfair - I'm puzzled as to why you consider their demands 'ill-defined', they seem pretty clear to me and I think they are far more substantive than the 'attention seekers' you suggest but let me make just tow points;

 

  • Firstly, whatever we think about the improvements that have been made to insulation standards, and useful though they may be, they are essentially token gestures. We build relatively few new homes nowadays and the big issue/potential win has always been the improvement of the many millions of very poorly insulated homes within the UK. This is the issue which IB are campaigning on and which successive Tory governments have ignored - I'm not even counting the two, or was it three, utterly useless and ridiculous schemes which they launched and collapsed without achieving anything.

 

The protests have highlighted insulation but the protesters have burnt through a lot of good will in doing so.  Perhaps if they had a more defined goal there would be a way of measuring success but there isn't, its all a bit nebulous.   A protest that demands that maximum u values  set out in part L of the Building Regulations be reduced to 'passivhaus standards' doesn't sound sexy but at least it is definite and realistic.   The current protest at best makes people go 'that's nice  somebody, somewhere should definitely do something.' At worst it actively discourages people from doing  the very thing the protestors want. 

In terms of changing standards.   You are correct that there have been no major changes in a while.  The last big one was in 2014 when local authorities were banned from requiring that new houses meet a particular level of the code for sustainable homes and in place of local arrangements a higher  national minimum national standard was imposed.  I am sure someone has researched the affect of the change on the average standard now acheived and the level of houses delivered. If you find out, I'd read it!

I dont think there was ever a national requirement that all new homes meet passivhaus standards. It was a matter for each authority what standard was set and few if any set standards we would now regard as much above the minimum.

 

Edited by Barbe bleu

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19 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

The protests have highlighted insulation but the protesters have burnt through a lot of good will in doing so.  Perhaps if they had a more defined goal there would be a way of measuring success but there isn't, its all a bit nebulous.   A protest that demands that maximum u values  set out in part L of the Building Regulations be reduced to 'passivhaus standards' doesn't sound sexy but at least it is definite and realistic.   The current protest at best makes people go 'that's nice  somebody, somewhere should definitely do something.' At worst it actively discourages people from doing  the very thing the protestors want. 

In terms of changing standards.   You are correct that there have been no major changes in a while.  The last big one was in 2014 when local authorities were banned from requiring that new houses meet a particular level of the code for sustainable homes and in place of local arrangements a higher  national minimum national standard was imposed.  I am sure someone has researched the affect of the change on the average standard now acheived and the level of houses delivered. If you find out, I'd read it!

I dont think there was ever a national requirement that all new homes meet passivhaus standards. It was a matter for each authority what standard was set and few if any set standards we would now regard as much above the minimum.

 

To be honest I'm not sure there was ever much good will to burn through so I don't see that they have lost anything there but their form of protest has clearly provoked some extremely negative reactions, as well as getting substantial publicity for their issue. I'm sure they fully expected the first and judged it worthwhile in the hope that they would succeed in the second, plus I would re-iterate Herman's question 'What else could they have done'.

Whether they actually succeed in their real objective of pushing this useless government into doing the right thing on this important issue I very much doubt, but they have certainly managed to get the issue into the headlines which is something that scientists, experts, other campaign groups and some political parties have been trying to do for 15 years without success.

I remain baffled as to why you think they need 'a more defined goal' and 'its all a bit nebulous'. This is ridiculous because their goals are clear and simple. You keep reverting back to the minutiae of the current building standards which are completely irrelevant to the IB protests ‚Äď those standards only entered the conversation at all because I said the government had taken no action since declaring a climate emergency and you responded that the building standards had been upgraded, although you have now accepted that improvement predates the announcement so my statement about Government inaction still stands IMO.

But IB protests have nothing to do with whether the current standards are good enough or not. The vast majority of UK housing was built to building standards several iterations before the current one and it is widely recognised that the UK has millions of properties built to the lowest standards, especially as regards insulation, in Europe. There is absolutely no need (or point) in trying to start spelling out detail like u-values, in fact I’ll go further and say that in terms of upgrading and retrofitting our very poor housing stock there is no one size fits all solution. But what is required is a massive program of upgrading millions of homes with extremely poor energy performance to whatever higher standard is possible/feasible using the most appropriate technology of which there is a range to suit different properties.

That may be large in scale but IMO that it a perfectly clear and quite simple objective  it would create a large number of skilled jobs, hugely reduce UK carbon emissions and UK fuels bills (especially amongst the poorest in society) and yet here we are, with energy prices going through the roof and large numbers of people who are not going to be able to afford to heat their homes properly this winter (a situation that has existed for many years actually, but the numbers are far, far bigger this year) and still it takes people gluing themselves to motorways to get the attention of the media and our uncaring, or perhaps careless, government.

As I said in my first response, whatever you think about IB’s tactics or targets, I think their actions and the reactions to them send a much wider and darker message about the warped values and dysfunctional state of both our media and our governance, and frankly much of UK society as well.

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Just this week I heard one of the same old arguments coming out.

There has always been climate change. When I asked the person to back that up they waffled on about Ice Ages, hot summers etc.

My point to them was, surely we should be doing all we can to assist even if, although unlikely, it is cyclical.

I guess the Insulaters are basing their tactic on, if we inconvenience people enough, they will give in.

I doubt that one will work. The Poll Tax riots worked because, not only did they have a good argument that even Thatcher u-turned on, but there was violence, public and private damage and massive support from the lowest paid.

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50 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I doubt that one will work. The Poll Tax riots worked because, not only did they have a good argument that even Thatcher u-turned on, but there was violence, public and private damage and massive support from the lowest paid.

It is a very sad state of affairs but I think we have reached the stage where, as you suggest, violent protest is the only thing that will have an impact in this country. That doesn't just appear to be the case for IB but a whole range of recent peaceful protesters.

Clearly the Government and the police believe that violence is effective, which is presumably why the police have violently attacked peaceful protesters on a number of occasions when they were having a significant (and politically inconvenient to the Government)) impact on public opinion.

Add in the current ongoing Government plan to severely curtail our basic right to peaceful protest at a time where there is a very wide range of rising protests against this Government and it's not hard to see that it is only a matter of time before the protests become violent - in England I mean, of course we have already seen violent protest in N.I. but apparently that doesn't count since that was Government inspired and therefore an entirely legitimate expression of genuine grievances ūüôĄūüôĄūüôĄ

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The continued infiltration of 'peaceful protest' by Hard Left rent-a-mobs will result in the following;

Increased surveillance (and in the name of even handedness it will need to include the 99% innocent in order to not offend and affront the 1% of actual subversives)

Increased law enforcement presence and more stop and search.

Private security firms, private armies.

Cameras on every street corner.

Vaccine Passports and ID Cards.

The introduction of 'Shop a Mate' as a way of controlling activism.

Monitoring of the Internet and Mobile Phones by GCHQ.

Subversives turning the heat up, bleating we live in a Police State, UK is a racist, polluting, misogynistic sh!T - hole etc etc.... Taking Direct Action on every street until they are forcibly moved, isolated and 'disappeared.' 

A Hard Right One Party State..... China - excellent example - ironically they produce the most pollution, but of course not much protesting goes on there.

Invade somewhere on a wave of Nationalistic Fervour. 

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55 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

The continued infiltration of 'peaceful protest' by Hard Left rent-a-mobs will result in the following;

Increased surveillance (and in the name of even handedness it will need to include the 99% innocent in order to not offend and affront the 1% of actual subversives)

Increased law enforcement presence and more stop and search.

Private security firms, private armies.

Cameras on every street corner.

Vaccine Passports and ID Cards.

The introduction of 'Shop a Mate' as a way of controlling activism.

Monitoring of the Internet and Mobile Phones by GCHQ.

Subversives turning the heat up, bleating we live in a Police State, UK is a racist, polluting, misogynistic sh!T - hole etc etc.... Taking Direct Action on every street until they are forcibly moved, isolated and 'disappeared.' 

A Hard Right One Party State..... China - excellent example - ironically they produce the most pollution, but of course not much protesting goes on there.

Invade somewhere on a wave of Nationalistic Fervour. 

But that is a tactic of the far left. Bring misery and people may look for alternatives. The harder life becomes, the more people listen to extremes. Tougher laws increase subversion.

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How do you know that they have been infiltrated by the hard left?

And technically China is a communist, hard left one party state. 

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Whilst I understand their frustration, the simple fact is that the UK produces around 1% of the world's carbon. Whatever we do with our homes will make little or no difference in the general scheme of things. The airline industry on the other hand is responsible for about 5% of worldwide emissions. If they were to blockade Heathrow they would have my full support. 

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If they superglued Jacob Rees Mogg to the M1 would they gain everyone's support?

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Just listen to yourselves…..you don’t want your kids to prosper- you hate anything UK, 

Meanwhile China building static aircraft carriers in SCS

i guess none of you have ever visited HK

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