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TeemuVanBasten

Serious question, if we had a gay player...

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If they are gay then that's the players choice. If he chooses to come out, again its the players choice. Why do people make such an issue out of sexuality? Everybody is different. What about if a player is bisexual? Like I say it doesn't matter and it is completely their decision. BUT I would encourage a player to say if they wanted to, why should you hide your feelings for the sake of the minority.

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What Ward3 says here - if you are comfortable in coming out, then do it. Most people that respected you before will respect you afterwards. You can't worry about those that don't, it's your life not theirs. As for Social Media, I second what has been said here, you can let it control you or you can choose not too. I like others choose not to. 

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17 hours ago, NFN FC said:

Real Buh is right though. Social media is a toxic cesspit 

Well, yes it can be. Doesn't have to be if you use it judiciously.

But, back to the conversation. When Fashanu came out, gay people in general and Justin in particular were insidiously  pilloried, ridiculed, belittled, and vilified by newspapers like the Mail, Express, and the Bible of the masses, The Sun. I don't know how toxic social media can be now, but back then it was evil and influential in equal measure.

But times have changed. In pre-season this year Richard Kone, a young gay player from Abidjan, trialled and played for Colchester United and then was invited in by Brentford. Work permit issues vould not be resolved, so he is now back at Athletic Newham, playing well below his level.

The point is, it's all very natural to him and happily his attitude reflects how most youngsters view variations in sexuality. There will be those who try to stoke the issue, but they will become increasingly irrelevant.

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21 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm not going to ask you whether you'd support that player coming out or not, because if you wouldn't then you aren't the type of person that interests me and you can keep that opinion to yourself - football is 30 years behind the curve here. 

But could you in all seriousness look that player in the eye and recommend that they come out? Tell that that this would be a good idea?

I honestly don't think I could, particularly not a young one with their financial security not yet secured. I just don't think I could look a gay football in the eye and think it would be a good idea for them to become the martyr, and to then suffer the decade of relentless trolling, abuse and bullying that would follow. 

And I find that quite sad to be honest, but I don't think football (fans in particular) have moved on much at all since Justin Fashanu came out and then saw his career go downhill. I'm afraid I really couldn't see that going well for a player in English football, I think they'd have to do it and then escape to America - and how depressing that the USA, backwards in so many other ways, and with so many extreme opinions, would probably still be the safe haven for a gay male athlete (like Robbie Rogers)

 

 

Justin's career was going downhill way before he came out at the age of 30

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Good

Haven’t got to see a picture of someone’s Spaghetti Bolognese 

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7 minutes ago, daly said:

Good

Haven’t got to see a picture of someone’s Spaghetti Bolognese 

Wow, had no idea it was compulsory if you use those services.  I've got away with it for years  and not one photo  of spag bol. 

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5 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I thought that was just my internet, good to know! 

image.png.e6336aa1b1abdbf6f67859f494fc25cb.png

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I'd agree with the prevailing notion that whoever came out would essentially be exposed and be a potential martyr to a loud trollish element. However, I would also say it could well be a catalyst for stricter control by social media. If it happened to be a bona-fide top-tier player then I think it would be easier to accept.

A young player just starting out in the game... I don't think so. A young player who's proven / close to proven at the top tier - could work. Not saying Rashford is gay at all, but his efforts on social assistance and improvement have been justifiably and widely lauded, and I think some of that is also due to his reputation as a top-drawer player in the Premier League simply as there is a prevailing view that many top-drawer players are rather inured from biting working-class realities.

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2 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Norwich may well be cosmopolitan but Norfolk definitely isn't 😂

........and in reality neither are most other football stadiums ...........

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5 hours ago, Surfer said:

What Ward3 says here - if you are comfortable in coming out, then do it. Most people that respected you before will respect you afterwards. You can't worry about those that don't, it's your life not theirs. As for Social Media, I second what has been said here, you can let it control you or you can choose not too. I like others choose not to. 

“I’m in control” said the addict

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1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Great Yarmouth?

Dont mention Brighton! 

The forum police will be after you......;-) 

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Surprised by the level of distaste for social media. I think the era will be historically defined as the age of communication and when I look back to my adolescence I wish we had it rather than trailing my parents phone to the hallway to get some privacy to call a girl. Yeah they collect data, so what, just means my Facebook page gives me NCFC news rather than Man Utd. So the ads are tailored to my preferences, oh no how will I cope!. Social media has clearly bought many positives to society and the connections for friends and family is worth any inconveniences surely. Blaming the platforms for they way people use them is like blaming pubs for the drunken idiots that try and ruin the night for everyone else in it. While they could and should police their platforms better, Dheads will find a way to be Dheads, always have.

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On 03/10/2021 at 20:05, TeemuVanBasten said:

I'm not going to ask you whether you'd support that player coming out or not, because if you wouldn't then you aren't the type of person that interests me and you can keep that opinion to yourself - football is 30 years behind the curve here. 

But could you in all seriousness look that player in the eye and recommend that they come out? Tell that that this would be a good idea?

I honestly don't think I could, particularly not a young one with their financial security not yet secured. I just don't think I could look a gay football in the eye and think it would be a good idea for them to become the martyr, and to then suffer the decade of relentless trolling, abuse and bullying that would follow. 

And I find that quite sad to be honest, but I don't think football (fans in particular) have moved on much at all since Justin Fashanu came out and then saw his career go downhill. I'm afraid I really couldn't see that going well for a player in English football, I think they'd have to do it and then escape to America - and how depressing that the USA, backwards in so many other ways, and with so many extreme opinions, would probably still be the safe haven for a gay male athlete (like Robbie Rogers)

 

 

You mean the American Robbie Rogers? 
 

I don’t think it’s any coincidence he moved back to the USA is it? 
 

on another note - in the female game, the game is (and I have to be careful here) dominated by homosexuality, but equally it is not seen as an issue and nor should it be in the men’s game 

Let’s be honest here, it’s 2021, if you have an issue with someone’s sexuality then you need your head checking 

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21 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

You mean the American Robbie Rogers? 

I don’t think it’s any coincidence he moved back to the USA is it? 

That's not exactly how it happened.

Robbie Rogers agreed to mutually quit Leeds United half way through a season at 25, announced his retirement, and a few weeks later came out as gay. 

He told the Times that he'd retired to avoid the scrutiny of the press and the fans. As a Leeds player at that time, he's talking about the English press, and about English fans. 

He then came out of retirement and signed for LA Galaxy six months after, because he did a speech for 500 kids and said it made him feel like a coward for hanging up his boots.

 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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22 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Let’s be honest here, it’s 2021, if you have an issue with someone’s sexuality then you need your head checking 

Over 30% of people still believe that there is something wrong with same-sex relationships, and a few years ago that increased for the first time in a while.

I prefer to deal with reality really.

A lot of those will be religious people of course. I'm sure a lot of people think that the religious need their head checking, but I prefer to live and let live and believe people are entitled to their opinions.

More pressing isn't the opinion that they hold but whether they are prepared to convey that in any way publicly, e.g. by chanting or writing on twitter. That's the bit that will bother gay players, and the bit you should take issue with yobocop. 

Somebody who has a problem with same-sex relationships isn't automatically doing you or anybody else any harm are they. 

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1 hour ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

Surprised by the level of distaste for social media. I think the era will be historically defined as the age of communication and when I look back to my adolescence I wish we had it rather than trailing my parents phone to the hallway to get some privacy to call a girl. Yeah they collect data, so what, just means my Facebook page gives me NCFC news rather than Man Utd. So the ads are tailored to my preferences, oh no how will I cope!. Social media has clearly bought many positives to society and the connections for friends and family is worth any inconveniences surely. Blaming the platforms for they way people use them is like blaming pubs for the drunken idiots that try and ruin the night for everyone else in it. While they could and should police their platforms better, Dheads will find a way to be Dheads, always have.

Ask yourself this

do you honestly believe the people who created these platforms allow their children on the platforms they created?

toxic, from the bottom to the top. A waste of human life.

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5 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Ask yourself this

do you honestly believe the people who created these platforms allow their children on the platforms they created?

toxic, from the bottom to the top. A waste of human life.

You don't think facebook groups have any value whatsoever? 

I'm in loads of niche history groups.

It is a valuable tool for communication.

I don't really see anything toxic, I must hang around in the right places. Perhaps you were connected with a lower class of people. 

There isn't such thing as a rough pub, it is the inhabitants that make it rough. You were clearly connected to the wrong people and adding yourself to the wrong groups.

Haven't seen much by way of arguments on my timeline since Brexit, and Facebook groups have replaced internet forums so it is really rather essential for anybody with interesting hobbies or interests. I'm not in any football or Norwich City groups mind, had a look in one once and opted out.

As for whether the creators of the platforms allow their kids on.... Zuckerbergs children are 8 and 6, Dorsey doesn't have kids. So probably not mate. 

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24 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Over 30% of people still believe that there is something wrong with same-sex relationships, and a few years ago that increased for the first time in a while.

I prefer to deal with reality really.

A lot of those will be religious people of course. I'm sure a lot of people think that the religious need their head checking, but I prefer to live and let live and believe people are entitled to their opinions.

More pressing isn't the opinion that they hold but whether they are prepared to convey that in any way publicly, e.g. by chanting or writing on twitter. That's the bit that will bother gay players, and the bit you should take issue with yobocop. 

Somebody who has a problem with same-sex relationships isn't automatically doing you or anybody else any harm are they. 

You could apply the same theory for almost anything 

complete non starter 

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7 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

You don't think facebook groups have any value whatsoever? 

I'm in loads of niche history groups.

It is a valuable tool for communication.

I don't really see anything toxic, I must hang around in the right places. Perhaps you were connected with a lower class of people. 

There isn't such thing as a rough pub, it is the inhabitants that make it rough. You were clearly connected to the wrong people and adding yourself to the wrong groups.

Haven't seen much by way of arguments on my timeline since Brexit, and Facebook groups have replaced internet forums so it is really rather essential for anybody with interesting hobbies or interests. I'm not in any football or Norwich City groups mind, had a look in one once and opted out.

As for whether the creators of the platforms allow their kids on.... Zuckerbergs children are 8 and 6, Dorsey doesn't have kids. So probably not mate. 

This conveniently got buried yesterday when the lights went out at Facebook

“The version of Facebook that exists today is tearing our societies apart and causing ethnic violence around the world,” she said.

 “Facebook has realised that if they change the algorithm to be safer, people will spend less time on the site, they’ll click on less ads, and [Facebook] will make less money.”

Haugen also discussed the most damaging document leak, which showed Facebook was aware of the damage its Instagram app was causing to teen mental health and wellbeing. One survey in the leaked research estimated that 30% of teenage girls felt Instagram made dissatisfaction with their body worse.

Every second you spend on social media is a second wasted. The same technology behind a lot machines is used to keep you hooked.

Social media makes you think you are the customer but what it has made you is the product. You are processed and mined for your information and sold again and again. It’s torn away at our societies and made us less social. There are no redeeming features and like I said, I’d start the tax rate at 50% and pursue that cash aggressively if I was in government and see how it goes

42615982-EC52-4220-9A26-32AD7DAE4F51.jpeg

Edited by The Real Buh
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9 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

 

Haugen also discussed the most damaging document leak, which showed Facebook was aware of the damage its Instagram app was causing to teen mental health and wellbeing. One survey in the leaked research estimated that 30% of teenage girls felt Instagram made dissatisfaction with their body worse.

 

There were plenty of eating disorders around in my day too, can’t remember what we blamed them on then, probably page 3 and women’s ‘lifestyle’ mags no doubt. The blame just shifts with the times. I do agree that this generation has to mature faster than we did and that parent need to be careful when it comes to a child’s whole internet access, not just social media but again, it’s just changing one generational challenge for another

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26 minutes ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

There were plenty of eating disorders around in my day too, can’t remember what we blamed them on then, probably page 3 and women’s ‘lifestyle’ mags no doubt. The blame just shifts with the times. I do agree that this generation has to mature faster than we did and that parent need to be careful when it comes to a child’s whole internet access, not just social media but again, it’s just changing one generational challenge for another

>Defending facebook

Wow, this one is in deep

if I can’t tickle you with systematically ruining peoples mental health who use the platforms, including specifically targeting Children and knowing it does them harm and continuing to target them, maybe an Accessory in genocide is more your thing?

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebook-genocide.html
 

cambridge analytica? Is that too easy to bring up at this point?

 

 

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8 hours ago, Yobocop said:

You could apply the same theory for almost anything 

complete non starter 

Exactly, it is called logic and pragmatism.

Should be everybodies starter. 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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1 hour ago, The Real Buh said:

Social media makes you think you are the customer but what it has made you is the product. 

Of course, if you aren't paying then you are the product.

How is that different from Pinkun.com? 

Ad networks are the customer, you are the product. 

You deleting your pinkun account then, or are you writing to Archant asking for a subscription model so you can pay not to see ads? Of course you aren't. 

 

Edited by TeemuVanBasten

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