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Would you rather be Burnley or Norwich?

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Our stated aim is to "establish" ourselves in the EPL. Let's say that means at least a 5 year stay, which is what Burnley have managed.

But what's the point of what Burnley do? They play a particular style, once popularised by Wimbledon, which cannot succeed against the better teams but which wins them enough points to stay up, just. That style isn't good to watch unless you like watching fighting, whingeing and cheating. The way Dyche tries to manipulate the accommodating media and influence referees is up there with Alex Ferguson. Short term, It might work, but Burnley haven't progressed at all in those 5 years.

The money they have earned from TV has gone on wages. Following their recent sale, they have no cash left as the £50m they had has been used to finance the purchase by some Americans who have absolutely no idea what they are doing in football terms but know very well what they are doing to obtain a saleable asset for very little investment.

Every single season is a relegation fight. They seem to recognise that to progress they have to amend their style, but to date Dyche has bought some quite decent players and turned them into thugs. Stoke tried to turn them back into footballers and are still recovering.

So, back to the point. Would you rather support a Burnley team which just survives in the EPL using these behaviours, or a Norwich team with a belief in doing things differently but which might not manage to stay in the EPL?

 

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I think if you’re asking Norwich fans if they’d rather give up and support Burnley to enjoy what they have at the minute, then the uptake would be zero.

But if you’re asking Norwich fans if they want to see Norwich ‘do a Burnley’ (I.e. hover around 14-17th each season playing a very agricultural style of play), as opposed to continue on the current too-good-for-the-championship-but-not-good-enough-for-the-PL trajectory, then I think you’d get a lot more people wanting to see that.

Personally I’d like to see us try to do it our way and wouldn’t want to see the playstyle compromised entirely for a Burnley-esque run of seasons of PL stability. But I might be in the minority on that one.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Our stated aim is to "establish" ourselves in the EPL. Let's say that means at least a 5 year stay, which is what Burnley have managed.

But what's the point of what Burnley do? They play a particular style, once popularised by Wimbledon, which cannot succeed against the better teams but which wins them enough points to stay up, just. That style isn't good to watch unless you like watching fighting, whingeing and cheating. The way Dyche tries to manipulate the accommodating media and influence referees is up there with Alex Ferguson. Short term, It might work, but Burnley haven't progressed at all in those 5 years.

The money they have earned from TV has gone on wages. Following their recent sale, they have no cash left as the £50m they had has been used to finance the purchase by some Americans who have absolutely no idea what they are doing in football terms but know very well what they are doing to obtain a saleable asset for very little investment.

Every single season is a relegation fight. They seem to recognise that to progress they have to amend their style, but to date Dyche has bought some quite decent players and turned them into thugs. Stoke tried to turn them back into footballers and are still recovering.

So, back to the point. Would you rather support a Burnley team which just survives in the EPL using these behaviours, or a Norwich team with a belief in doing things differently but which might not manage to stay in the EPL?

 

My belief is that staying the way we are and trying to play football will eventually see us succeed. When it is at it's best, it is brilliant, even against PL opposition - we saw that in flashes last time in the PL and imo we will see more consistently it this season as the new players bed in.

Burnley are Burnley and don't seem to have freshened up much and look as if they might struggle this season - they only know one way to play and there are too many good teams now that can find them out.  We have freshened up though - and progressed as was seen yesterday - no longer push overs, some steel in there - and that progression will be ongoing as we develop and get a bit of confidence going.

So Burnley are straight lining, we are at least trying to build something special. So to dream of being a brilliant football team is far better than dreaming to have a team that just survives each season, so it's no contest really, is it!  Surviving is what we want to do, but we want to survive better! 

Edited by lake district canary
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Our way has the greater long term potential. Burnley is the here and now. We plan years ahead, they plan for current season. I know what I'd rather back.

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3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I think if you’re asking Norwich fans if they’d rather give up and support Burnley to enjoy what they have at the minute, then the uptake would be zero.

But if you’re asking Norwich fans if they want to see Norwich ‘do a Burnley’ (I.e. hover around 14-17th each season playing a very agricultural style of play), as opposed to continue on the current too-good-for-the-championship-but-not-good-enough-for-the-PL trajectory, then I think you’d get a lot more people wanting to see that.

Personally I’d like to see us try to do it our way and wouldn’t want to see the playstyle compromised entirely for a Burnley-esque run of seasons of PL stability. But I might be in the minority on that one.

I'll certain second that. 

Burnley have been more successful as they have stayed in the EPL and want to stay there. We have owners that well.... Are not so fussed with the top tier. However, Burnley's football is not pretty and not one I would wish to see week in, week out. Plus on yesterdays evidence, I would suggest they are worse than us. 

The one thing about Burnley which Norwich could learn from is that they don't try and play a style of football that is beyond their squad. Farke needs to be more flexible - like Lambert or Walker - where they knew they didn't have the best bunch, but tried to get the very best out of them playing within their capabilities. That is why at this level - so far at least - Farke does not cut it. 

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33 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I think if you’re asking Norwich fans if they’d rather give up and support Burnley to enjoy what they have at the minute, then the uptake would be zero.

But if you’re asking Norwich fans if they want to see Norwich ‘do a Burnley’ (I.e. hover around 14-17th each season playing a very agricultural style of play), as opposed to continue on the current too-good-for-the-championship-but-not-good-enough-for-the-PL trajectory, then I think you’d get a lot more people wanting to see that.

Personally I’d like to see us try to do it our way and wouldn’t want to see the playstyle compromised entirely for a Burnley-esque run of seasons of PL stability. But I might be in the minority on that one.

I'm with you. I think you won't be in the minority today but if we lose the next two trying to play football and Burnley win a couple of 1-0 games you'll see so many people shift. This forum has been incredibly reactionary as of late 😅

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Burnley have achieved what we cant do,stay in the prem.We play a better looki g style of football for sure,but we will be relegated for doing so.You take your choice on that one. Ultimately we have good squad for the championship, poor one for the prem.That is it no more no less.We will be favourites to go up next season and I think we will. Burnley will stay up.

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Would you give up the excitement of last two championship victories for 5 seasons striving to survive in the PL cesspool.

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I'm pretty sure there has never ever been a scenario where anyone has ever wanted to be Burnley. 

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Few English clubs are attached to a beautiful city and county like ours so as much as I moan I wouldn't change places with anyone.

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Burnley isn't about hoofball where they just lump it down the middle and rely on flick ons from a big centre forward. What they is work the ball out to wide positions and then get crosses in asap.

Additionally they close down quickly in midfield and are happy to take ball and man at the same time.

Personally I'm not a huge fan of us **** arsing around playing out from the back and was quite pleased ro see us ditch that yesterday. Seeing Kabak and Normann run out with the ball was quite refreshing.

Norwich are not a great watch at the moment in terms of chance creation but we need to steady the ship.

I'd bite your hand off at 5 years in the Championship even if it means going a bit more direct and more agricultural. 

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I suspect most Burnley fans would have looked at our two promotion seasons with a shudder. Can any City fan really say they enjoyed them ? Or watching youngsters progress through the ranks and go onto better things. Three league titles in the past 50 years( L2,3,4) give Burnley much to be pleased about, compared to our meagre collection of trophies over the same period. They have much to boo about, as they did yesterday

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Watched Burnley a few times this season and it’s simply not football. Early on they used every available opportunity to kick lumps out of the opposition and really test the new referee directives of a more fluid ‘not all contact is a foul’ slant. Once they realised referees sussed that all they were doing was committing assault they’ve ever so slightly eased back a bit while now taking gamesmanship to a new level. Surround the officials at every opportunity, even when they commit an obvious foul, slow the clock, play for set pieces and generally just bully the opponent. That a squad can be ‘coached’ in this way is really disappointing and it goes against everything I want to see in a football match/team.

We need to become more robust, strong in a challenge but understand the limits and play our way, to the strengths we have. We’re not there yet but there’s been progress.

Swap our last decade with Burnley’s and there’s no way I would still be a season ticket holder.

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Last season Burnley beat Liverpool, took 4 points against Everton, took 4 points against Arsenal.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Our stated aim is to "establish" ourselves in the EPL. Let's say that means at least a 5 year stay, which is what Burnley have managed.

But what's the point of what Burnley do? They play a particular style, once popularised by Wimbledon, which cannot succeed against the better teams but which wins them enough points to stay up, just. That style isn't good to watch unless you like watching fighting, whingeing and cheating. The way Dyche tries to manipulate the accommodating media and influence referees is up there with Alex Ferguson. Short term, It might work, but Burnley haven't progressed at all in those 5 years.

The money they have earned from TV has gone on wages. Following their recent sale, they have no cash left as the £50m they had has been used to finance the purchase by some Americans who have absolutely no idea what they are doing in football terms but know very well what they are doing to obtain a saleable asset for very little investment.

Every single season is a relegation fight. They seem to recognise that to progress they have to amend their style, but to date Dyche has bought some quite decent players and turned them into thugs. Stoke tried to turn them back into footballers and are still recovering.

So, back to the point. Would you rather support a Burnley team which just survives in the EPL using these behaviours, or a Norwich team with a belief in doing things differently but which might not manage to stay in the EPL?

 

On the subject of "thugs", I've got a question for you.  Who do you think has had more players sent off - Burnley in the past 5 seasons including this one, or Norwich in the first 45 minutes last time Burnley played at Carrow Road?  If you said Norwich, you'd be right. 

You're aware that this style, that cannot succeed against better teams, has seen us win at Old Trafford, Anfield, and the Emirates in the past 18 months?  Where we do struggle is against park-the-bus sides like yourselves. If you would change your style to include scoring goals once in a while, I reckon it would be more entertaining, but as it stands it's no better than ours in a different way.

I'm sure you have sweet dreams about getting into the top 6 and challenging for the title.  So do we all.  But unless Delia sells out to a sugar daddy with multi-millions like the Leicester Thais - and they have put half a billion into the club and still haven't broken into the "big six" apart fro that one season - then establishing yourself in the PL is all you can possibly hope for.  Of course, you have the advantage of a huge catchment area with no competition.  We have at least 20 other league teams within the same distance as Norwich to Ipswich.  Bigger population, but as both Liverpool clubs, both Manchester clubs, and Leeds, are within that radius, we don't draw many from those areas.  Burnley's bigger than Lowestoft, but not by much.

Me?  I'm happy with Burnley.  In spite of our dodgy American owners who have stripped out the cash reserves.  Nothing against your lot, but I will still stick with my team of "thugs", who incidentally once again extended their PL-record run of games without a sending off to 100.

I agree we have dodgy owners, and also of course we are surrounded by other 

Edited by dsr-burnley

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18 hours ago, sgncfc said:

Our stated aim is to "establish" ourselves in the EPL. Let's say that means at least a 5 year stay, which is what Burnley have managed.

But what's the point of what Burnley do? They play a particular style, once popularised by Wimbledon, which cannot succeed against the better teams but which wins them enough points to stay up, just. That style isn't good to watch unless you like watching fighting, whingeing and cheating. The way Dyche tries to manipulate the accommodating media and influence referees is up there with Alex Ferguson. Short term, It might work, but Burnley haven't progressed at all in those 5 years.

The money they have earned from TV has gone on wages. Following their recent sale, they have no cash left as the £50m they had has been used to finance the purchase by some Americans who have absolutely no idea what they are doing in football terms but know very well what they are doing to obtain a saleable asset for very little investment.

Every single season is a relegation fight. They seem to recognise that to progress they have to amend their style, but to date Dyche has bought some quite decent players and turned them into thugs. Stoke tried to turn them back into footballers and are still recovering.

So, back to the point. Would you rather support a Burnley team which just survives in the EPL using these behaviours, or a Norwich team with a belief in doing things differently but which might not manage to stay in the EPL?

 

I thought at first this was a really crafty way of saying “why aren’t we Burnley, but I get your point 🤣

even the teams you think they are just going to float along in the prem each year and nobody will notice them, eventually the prem gets them. That’s why this league is just done. European superleague when? 

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5 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

On the subject of "thugs", I've got a question for you.  Who do you think has had more players sent off - Burnley in the past 5 seasons including this one, or Norwich in the first 45 minutes last time Burnley played at Carrow Road?  If you said Norwich, you'd be right. 

Whilst technically true - from memory that was the menacing “elbow” by Buendia - causing your player to have a life threatening injury  and roll in agony for almost 1 minute (before making an astonishing recovery) 

Not sure that incident proves much apart from the mysteries of VAR looking for “contact” 

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55 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Whilst technically true - from memory that was the menacing “elbow” by Buendia - causing your player to have a life threatening injury  and roll in agony for almost 1 minute (before making an astonishing recovery) 

Not sure that incident proves much apart from the mysteries of VAR looking for “contact” 

2 incidents.  You had 2 men sent off in that one game; Burnley have had 1 sent off in 4+ years.  We aren't thugs.  The PL is full of lazy fans (led on by lazy journalists) who think that Burnley have a big team full of dirty tacklers, and it's clearly and provably wrong on both counts.

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4 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

2 incidents.  You had 2 men sent off in that one game; Burnley have had 1 sent off in 4+ years.  We aren't thugs.  The PL is full of lazy fans (led on by lazy journalists) who think that Burnley have a big team full of dirty tacklers, and it's clearly and provably wrong on both counts.

 

A lot of the time sendings off are the result of cynical play acting, something I hate about the modern game.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

2 incidents.  You had 2 men sent off in that one game; Burnley have had 1 sent off in 4+ years.  We aren't thugs.  The PL is full of lazy fans (led on by lazy journalists) who think that Burnley have a big team full of dirty tacklers, and it's clearly and provably wrong on both counts.

5 yellow cards and persistent fouling (13) throughout Saturday's game suggests it's pretty provable. I don't dislike Burnley for doing what they do, but watching crosses get banged in to Chris Wood at any opportunity must be dull for any supporter?

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Obviously I would much rather be us.

It is an interesting question though: the extent to which fans would put p with hoofball and/ or ultra defensive tactics to stay up. It is not just Burnley, the other great survivors, Crystal Palace have done so by being very defensive + very tightly organised. It wil be interesting to see how that develops under Vierra, who, perhaps mistakenly, I thought had been brought in to "up the football content."

The other issue is that Burnley are likely to be in big trouble when they are relegated - and it will happen at some stage. The deal used their own cash (£40 million+) + heavy borrowing (believed to be at rates of around 9%) just to finance the purchase of the club. The old owners walked away with around £200 million though!

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5 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

2 incidents.  You had 2 men sent off in that one game; Burnley have had 1 sent off in 4+ years.  We aren't thugs.  The PL is full of lazy fans (led on by lazy journalists) who think that Burnley have a big team full of dirty tacklers, and it's clearly and provably wrong on both counts.

You should have had two sent off on Saturday. The "tackles" by Tarkowski on Pukki which denied him a clear run on goal and the studs up one by Wood. Yet all you do is bleat for penalties which aren't given rather than look at the decisions which do go your way. All that moaning and whinging on the pitch, with Dyche trying to con the officials off it. Must be something in the water in the North West.....

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Well us of course. The problem with Burnley is you could be mistaken for West Ham, or Villa or S****horpe. 

There should be one of those teams in each of the four divisions for clarity. 

 

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I don't really get the whole "finishing 16th every year must be so boring" argument. All of those seasons will include defeats of more glamorous teams, gutsy fightbacks, exciting new or youth players coming through, cup runs and upsets.  2 seasons ago was about as bad as you can get but the Man.City and Tottenham cup wins will never be forgotten. 

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Burnley foul persistantly but because it's what they do, and everybody knows it's what they do, they aren't punished harshly. It's Stoke under Pulis all over again. I don't think they're a particularly nasty team but with the aggression comes more challenges which are obviously more deserving of a red than anything Buendia was sent off for.

31 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

I don't really get the whole "finishing 16th every year must be so boring" argument. All of those seasons will include defeats of more glamorous teams, gutsy fightbacks, exciting new or youth players coming through, cup runs and upsets.  2 seasons ago was about as bad as you can get but the Man.City and Tottenham cup wins will never be forgotten. 

It's more of a finishing 16th playing like Burnley wouldn't be particularly fun argument. We saw a couple of Hughton Premier League seasons, not sure many would want to go back to that.

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I don’t think Burnley get enough credit. The usual lazy trope of Brexit ball gets laid out at them but they actually play a fairly reasonable game for the most part.

Sure they like to hit the target man and that but they've found a way that works for them.

They also have the likes of Dwight McNeil and now Maxwell Cornet that have a bit of flair about them.

They are one of the most professional sides around and it's no surprise they have lasted 8 years at the top table.

They move the ball quickly and with purpose, something we could learn from. I noticed just how quickly and efficiently they managed to exploit our flanks on Saturday and were a bit unlucky not to be leading at half time in all fairness.

Rather than belittle them, we should try learn from them of course with our own style imprinted on as well. What we'd give for an established partnership like Tarkowski and Mee (and Collins who seamlessly stepped in at the weekend) and a combination like McNeil and Wood that consistently produces results.

Of course they are nothing that special and there is no reason we can't be better than them but show some respect, they are currently comfortably better than us as a squad.

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I’ve just read this write up on our club but some of it seems far fetched. 
 

Norwich is known for its mediocre football team, Norwich City [pron. Naarrch Settee]. It is mandatory for all spectators to dress in budgie outfits in support of the football teams emblem. They are also asked to bring cans of polish, as the empty trophy cupboards dust is a killer to remove. The rugby team is no better, made up as it is of frustrated farmers, who cannot get any **** sex. Thus, they run around grabbing the opposition's testicles to get their kicks, much to the delight of Norfolk folk who seem to specialise in finding the right hole.

However, Ipswich Town Football Club (nicknamed 'The Binners', for how they pride themselves in collecting rubbish left by the occasional tourist that visits once or twice every half a century) former chairman David Sheepshagger, recently stated that after being attacked and hounded out by vicious locals on tractors shouting "stab up that wasteman, he ain't nuffin blud", that he would much rather be director at their fierce rivals Norwich, despite having a football team consisting of 11 standing pegs, and that is nowadays only attended by 25,000 loyal clapping Penguins on matchdays. However, in doing this, he would have to contest this position with the aptly acclaimed Neil Doomcaster, for his works in making Norwich City the well known pub football team it is today, in a piece of agricultural trivia, in keeping with the current owners criteria for new staff members who only "know about what Norwich City is about", u no wht i meen? It's said that only on this basis did ex-manager Boy George lookalike Bryan Gunn get the job, despite relegating Norwich to it's lowest position in the football league in half a century, and harbouring ambitions of making the club a competitive side in the East Anglian Combination Division, where they can finally contest a 'proper' East Anglian derby with Lowestoft Town.

300px-Barenaked_Denver-Broncos.jpg
Home kit at Carra Ruud

Carra RuudEdit

The ground originated as a Nest made up of loose twigs, cow manure, and bark chippings. Since then, it has grown into one of the funniest stadia in the European Union. Sitting alongside Morrison's and the Narridge to Yaarmuth ****, Carra Ruud has undergone many changes. The most recent has been the renovation of the thatch on the roof of the Barclay stand - using Naarfuk reed (from Hum Base, aisle 17 (Made in China)). Opposite is a branch of the Narridge & Pete-a-brugh Building Society - which is quite handy for paying for a post-match **** with one of the local rent bouys.

Locals turn up to watch a pile of **** every other Saturday and then go home. There are no parking facilities around the ground as none of the locals are allowed to drive but those who do anyway can't fit their tractors in a space.

Carra Ruud is twinned with Portaloo Ro-ad, in Ipswich, previously home to many Eastern European ladies. At weekends, whole flocks of football fans are not found there, but in the local Liquid Nightclubstabbing each other with pitch forks.

Carra Ruud has many 'family' sections in the ground where families can come and .... (hint Inbreeding).

 

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Posted (edited)

What would get me about Burnley is the lack of a vision or apparent long-term plan. They aim to hang on again with an aging squad that has 9 players over 30 and a lot of fouls and gamesmanship. The endless bleating about penalties is pathetic, especially when most of the time they're looking to go down whether touched or not. With the Krul and Vydra incident Krul has every right to punch the ball just as Vydra has every right to try to head it. Had it been a collision of heads nothing would have been said.

Edited by Yelloow Since 72

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Dsr-burnley, we all know how Dyche sets your team up.  Each player takes it in turn to hack an oppo player, taking one for the team before passing the baton on.  It's beyond cynical.  So, not thuggery, but controlled thuggery with Dyche orchestrating the hits.

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Us of course but let's not pretend that there aren't a few things we can learn from them. Imagine if we could marry up the work rate and physicality we showed to match them and their ability to get the ball forward into good areas quickly with the better parts of our game? We'd be fantastic. Going ultra pragmatic or ultra idealistic both aren't the answer, we like them need to find a better balance, we seem to be starting to get there while they are slipping back the other way. They are though the only team I've seen play in this league, not just in our games who I think we have a chance of finishing above this season. Like us they don't seem to have that 60m+ plus superstar player like Zaha/Saint-Maximin/Saar who can win you games on their own like pretty much all of our other rivals do and like us they don't have much pace to hurt teams so what they do usually doesn't seem to work as well anymore now that the quality of the league steadily improves every year they appear to have stood still. 

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