Josh Murphy on loan at Preston

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

His stock seems to have fallen pretty damn fast, Preston one of the smaller clubs in the second tier (albeit they do punch above their weight and mix it in the top 10 now and again).

Bit of a contrast to Jacob Murphy who impressed so much at Premier League Newcastle last season that they handed him a 6 year contract! 

Shows that nothing is certain in football and things can change rapidly as Josh was always considered the more talented of the two until Jacob's surprise breakthrough season (when he kept Canos out of the team). 

 

[Samwam27 605]

And yet Canos not deemed good enough here, and is enjoying himself this season. Can't recall that many players who have left Norwich to go onto better things.

6 year contract. That's bonkers!

[Mr Angry 2,008]

They like their 6 year contracts, Saint-Maximin signed a 6 year extension last year and Callum Willock signed a 6 year deal when they bought him in the summer. Not as nuts as Pardew’s 8 year extension though 🤣

[king canary 8,749]

Shame for Josh- I always really liked him but a move to a Warnock team probably wasn't the best for him. 

Nothing but love for the twins though- two players who came through when we were struggling and made us huge profits. I hope they both have brilliant careers.

[Uncle Fred 526]

He was always the less talented of the bros 

[Ray 111]

Whilst Josh did appear to be more highly rated than Jacob by various members of the management of the club, I always felt Jacob showed a touch more promise.  I watched many of their U18/U23 games from age about 16 up until they broke into the first team squad and did feel Josh was slightly ahead in, for the want of better words, "match maturity"  I always thought Jacob had a touch more talent and would eventually catch up, albeit I didn't expect it to take this long to manifest itself.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

2 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

They like their 6 year contracts, Saint-Maximin signed a 6 year extension last year and Callum Willock signed a 6 year deal when they bought him in the summer. Not as nuts as Pardew’s 8 year extension though 🤣

I'm sure there will be some sort of accounting benefit for Mike Ashley in doing it this way.

Weren't just Pardew who got an 8 year contract either, his entire team down to the goalkeeping coach.

Bit of a kick in the teeth to the sports direct employees on zero hour deals.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

31 minutes ago, Ray said:

Whilst Josh did appear to be more highly rated than Jacob by various members of the management of the club, I always felt Jacob showed a touch more promise.  I watched many of their U18/U23 games from age about 16 up until they broke into the first team squad and did feel Josh was slightly ahead in, for the want of better words, "match maturity"  I always thought Jacob had a touch more talent and would eventually catch up, albeit I didn't expect it to take this long to manifest itself.

I thought that Josh looked a bit more robust / less of a wimp than Jacob.

I'm guessing this is what you are calling "match maturity". 

Jacob must have come of age at some point, I think he had a good loan at Sheffield Wednesday and then went back to Newcastle and forced his way in. 

To be fair, if Josh can spend the rest of his career at Championship level then that's still an excellent career, and these days enough to become financially sorted if you invest well and don't try to live like a Premier League footballer on a Championship salary.

[Ulfotto 798]

I think it says more about Cardiff than anything else. I mean he’s been replaced there by Marley Watkins think on that for a minute.

If a team plays to his strength he gets a goal every 4/5 games at Championship level. I guess the issue you always want more from him because when he is good he is very good the problem is he is/was pretty inconsistent.

[hogesar 10,754]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

Shame for Josh- I always really liked him but a move to a Warnock team probably wasn't the best for him. 

Nothing but love for the twins though- two players who came through when we were struggling and made us huge profits. I hope they both have brilliant careers.

Yeah, they were important for us on the pitch and then became big for us off the pitch with the fees we received.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

3 hours ago, Ulfotto said:

I think it says more about Cardiff than anything else. I mean he’s been replaced there by Marley Watkins think on that for a minute.

Marley Watkins only signed on a 1 month deal, is at Aberdeen now.

 

[king canary 8,749]

13 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I thought that Josh looked a bit more robust / less of a wimp than Jacob.

I'm guessing this is what you are calling "match maturity". 

Jacob must have come of age at some point, I think he had a good loan at Sheffield Wednesday and then went back to Newcastle and forced his way in. 

To be fair, if Josh can spend the rest of his career at Championship level then that's still an excellent career, and these days enough to become financially sorted if you invest well and don't try to live like a Premier League footballer on a Championship salary.

I always thought Josh was the more 'refined' player- extra bits of skill but also less likely to do the dirty work. Jacob was much more direct- his strong points were running very fast straight at players and hitting shots from 20 odd yards but the fact he reinvented himself as a right wing back doesn't shock me as he was very strong at getting up and down the field. 

[Ray 111]

king canary, I think this is where his "match maturity" eventually surpassed that of his brother, if you like more of an all round player.

[lake district canary 4,816]

In theory, as identical twins, they should be pretty much equal in what they are achieving, so the difference is probably down to their separate developments they experienced at their loan clubs before returning to Norwich.  Shows the importance of choosing the right loan club.  

Pleased to see they are both having good careers at a high level, albeit with Josh not yet settled at one club - still time for that though. Shame Jacob didn't take that goal opportunity at the weekend, would have enhanced his standing at Newcastle no end.

[king canary 8,749]

16 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

In theory, as identical twins, they should be pretty much equal in what they are achieving, so the difference is probably down to their separate developments they experienced at their loan clubs before returning to Norwich

Errrm....no.

They are identical twins but that doesn't make them the same person.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

34 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

In theory, as identical twins, they should be pretty much equal in what they are achieving

This is definitely the most bizarre thing I've ever seen you write, and that is saying something.

They are not genetic clones of each other beyond physical appearance. 

[lake district canary 4,816]

47 minutes ago, king canary said:

Errrm....no.

They are identical twins but that doesn't make them the same person.

 

24 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

This is definitely the most bizarre thing I've ever seen you write, and that is saying something.

They are not genetic clones of each other beyond physical appearance. 

Identical twins are as close to genetic copies as you can get without being clones.  I've taught many identical twins over the course of my career and I can tell you that although they have differences in character, most only start to show differences in things they both do, when they are separated and have different experiences from each other.  But they often follow very, very similar paths in terms of what they are capable of physically.  In all probability, having been together all their lives up to going out on loan, if Jacob had better experiences on loan than Josh, then that is the reason he is doing slightly better in his career. 

 

Edited September 28, 2021 by lake district canary

[AJ 1,358]

I did always feel Jacob had a slight edge over Josh, but both were very highly talented for their age and their careers have taken very different trajectories since leaving Norwich. I wish them well, they did their bit for us at the time and that in turn resulted in us making some decent money to overhaul the squad to get it where it is today.

As for the Murphy's, I've always felt they seriously lacked on the defensive side of their games, and that would always be their downfall. A bit like working out how to fit Huckerby into the side, or in ways Hoolahan, to get the best out of them you have to play them in a system that suits them. There's no doubt they are very talented going fowards, but football as a whole is a lot more than just attacking these days, as we saw with Emi for us, defending is as important as attacking. Jacob has worked very hard on his defensive side of his game, so much so that he's now often deployed as a RWB rather than a proper winger and fair play to him, he got his head down and made it work. As for Josh, his move to Cardiff didn't really work out, and he's now at a team that doesn't suit his style. He might get going once he fits in but as with most players, if you don't play to their strengths you won't reap the rewards.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,215]

20 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

His stock seems to have fallen pretty damn fast, Preston one of the smaller clubs in the second tier (albeit they do punch above their weight and mix it in the top 10 now and again).

Bit of a contrast to Jacob Murphy who impressed so much at Premier League Newcastle last season that they handed him a 6 year contract! 

Shows that nothing is certain in football and things can change rapidly as Josh was always considered the more talented of the two until Jacob's surprise breakthrough season (when he kept Canos out of the team). 

 

Including for Adam Idah. 

[KeiranShikari 1,524]

Jacob was always a bit more aware of his surroundings, a bit more physical and direct.  Josh was more individually talented but also more for himself.

Doesn't surprise me that Jacob is playing well at wing back at all.

[pete 371]

For identical twins why could I always tell them apart.  Josh can be remembered for setting up a defeat for the accursed Villa with a blockbuster.

[SwindonCanary 457]

As an Identical twin myself, I find there's not much difference between the two of us, even in our later years 

[Fuzzar 1,855]

8 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

As an Identical twin myself, I find there's not much difference between the two of us, even in our later years 

Oh God, there's two of them... 😉

[Decemberists 48]

The are genetically identical monozygotic twins.

However, from the zygote splitting they begin having different experiences. Positions in the womb, nutrients passed through etc. Then as foetuses it continues - different birth experiences. Then throughout childhood and at their loan clubs too. A factor yes, but not the defining moment for their football ability.
 

The result is two genetically identical twins, but actually different unique individuals due to their life experiences.

[Aggy 944]

9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

 

Identical twins are as close to genetic copies as you can get without being clones.  I've taught many identical twins over the course of my career and I can tell you that although they have differences in character, most only start to show differences in things they both do, when they are separated and have different experiences from each other.  But they often follow very, very similar paths in terms of what they are capable of physically.  In all probability, having been together all their lives up to going out on loan, if Jacob had better experiences on loan than Josh, then that is the reason he is doing slightly better in his career. 

 

The only set of identical twins I know personally, one of them played for a premier league club’s academy side, the other only got on my local league youth football side when we were short on numbers.

You might be right with these two, although to be honest, I’m not convinced they’re that far apart.

On 27/09/2021 at 16:46, Samwam27 said:

Can't recall that many players who have left Norwich to go onto better things.

Depends how ‘better’ you mean and for how long. In terms of having a good few years in the prem after us can only really think of Maddison, Redmond, Snodgrass, Dean Ashton, Rob Green, Bellamy. Fer had a few good years in the prem (and got to a cup final with Feyenoord after us). Buendia and Godfrey I expect will be added, possibly Lewis (although see where he ends up in a year or two).

Not many more though really. But lots who have moved on and been at pretty much the same standard - good championship sides/occasional prem seasons here and there.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

21 minutes ago, Aggy said:

The only set of identical twins I know personally, one of them played for a premier league club’s academy side, the other only got on my local league youth football side when we were short on numbers.

You might be right with these two, although to be honest, I’m not convinced they’re that far apart.

Depends how ‘better’ you mean and for how long. In terms of having a good few years in the prem after us can only really think of Maddison, Redmond, Snodgrass, Dean Ashton, Rob Green, Bellamy. Fer had a few good years in the prem (and got to a cup final with Feyenoord after us). Buendia and Godfrey I expect will be added, possibly Lewis (although see where he ends up in a year or two).

Not many more though really. But lots who have moved on and been at pretty much the same standard - good championship sides/occasional prem seasons here and there.

What about Van Wolfswinkel?

Has won two domestic cups since leaving Norwich, one in Holland and the other in Switzerland, and has had four seasons of European competition including a few games in the Champions League proper rounds. 

Not bad going! 

 

[chicken 3,081]

On 28/09/2021 at 21:26, Aggy said:

Depends how ‘better’ you mean and for how long. In terms of having a good few years in the prem after us can only really think of Maddison, Redmond, Snodgrass, Dean Ashton, Rob Green, Bellamy. Fer had a few good years in the prem (and got to a cup final with Feyenoord after us). Buendia and Godfrey I expect will be added, possibly Lewis (although see where he ends up in a year or two).

Not many more though really. But lots who have moved on and been at pretty much the same standard - good championship sides/occasional prem seasons here and there.

Yup. We've had players that have gone on to have success after us but not really surpassed the height of playing for us if that makes sense.

Take Pilkington for example. Three seasons in the premier league with us. Sold in Aug 2014 to Cardiff upon their Relegation to the Championship he stayed with them for several seasons and even managed to gain promotion with them again in 2018. He was then given a free transfer to Wigan half way through that premier league campaign in January 2019. So he probably hasn't done better overall. He hadn't improved upon what he achieved with us or what he could have achieved with us had he stayed.

Someone is bound to suggest other players that have gone to lower levels of European domestic leagues and then played in a European competition as well... which I'm not sure can be counted really, it's a tad silly. There is a list of players that have done that and it's quite long isn't it? Fernando Derveld, David Strihavka, Ricky Van Wolfswinkel... I think if you have any sense you have to sort of rule them out. It's very different to playing in one of Europe's top leagues and qualifying for Europe through being part of a successful side at that level than it is plying your trade in a lower league that requires qualification games before playing in the first phase proper - for example. I think Helveg may have even played European football in Denmark after playing for us, as another aside.

It's hard to keep track of players like that to be honest. 

Edited September 29, 2021 by chicken

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

9 hours ago, chicken said:

Take Pilkington for example. Three seasons in the premier league with us. Sold in Aug 2014 to Cardiff upon their Promotion to the premier league (as we went in the other direction) where they remained for one season. 

WHY DON'T YOU FACT CHECK CHICKEN??!!

Seriously, it's excruciating.

In August 2014 Cardiff were starting a season in the Championship after having just been relegated in the 2013/14 season.

Norwich and Cardiff were relegated together, us in 18th and them in 20th. 

You did the exact same thing the other day with the Grabban transfer. It would take you all of about 30 seconds to fact check these things on transfermarkt or even wikipedia, do you really prefer making things up over checking your 'facts'?

On 23/09/2021 at 20:24, chicken said:

I think there are a few examples of promoted teams selling good players. Bournemouth sold us Grabban

 

Edited September 29, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

22 hours ago, king canary said:

Errrm....no.

They are identical twins but that doesn't make them the same person.

Lakey might have a point. 
 

Rural New York Twins Killed Separately, Served Time Together

 

Robert and Stephen Spahalski committed murders with bizarre similarities, and even spent time in the same prisons.

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,328]

3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Lakey might have a point. 
 

Rural New York Twins Killed Separately, Served Time Together

 

Robert and Stephen Spahalski committed murders with bizarre similarities, and even spent time in the same prisons.

 

 

 

Should we sign Josh Murphy and then play him as wing back then? 

Perhaps Cardiff and Preston are missing a trick.