Shouldn't we just call those last 6 games a "Pre-season"?

[Bonzo 198]

With the budget so tight and with players not putting us at the top of their list of transfer destinations isn't there a case to cut the manager and his squad some slack particularly with so many late arrivals? 

Half the squad are new players and they haven't played together much have they? 

Edited September 27, 2021 by Bonzo

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Not sure, but think this may have been discussed in some recent threads :). A team that was always going to be desperate for every point can’t really afford to write off 6 games to start. Loads of mitigating circumstances, barrels full of sympathy but ultimately it’s not just six losses on the bounce but a host of problems that mean I respectfully disagree and while I think we will hang on to the dream too long it’s time to wake up.

[lake district canary 4,531]

I think it's a fair point. Losing Skipp and Buendia, which were unavoidable, has meant a rebuild at the heart of the team.  It was always going to be a tough start and really, only one game has been the real issue - the Watford game. If we had won that game and were sitting on three points now, we would at least look like we were in the battle for survival, whereas without a point, it looks much worse than it perhaps is in reality.

One game.....and one game can change it, too.

[The Bunny 309]

Why not call the whole season a pre-season for next year’s championship campaign and be done with it? 

[lake district canary 4,531]

Just now, The Bunny said:

Why not call the whole season a pre-season for next year’s championship campaign and be done with it? 

Because it's not.

[CDMullins 436]

Were we the only team to buy players at the end of the window?

So we're writing off the first 6.

Don't forget the 'free hits' against Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, how far do we go? Leicester, Everton?

We now need 40 point from 18 games.

Good luck with that.

[The Bunny 309]

1 minute ago, lake district canary said:

Because it's not.

Well if we’re only dealing in reality here, neither were the first 6 of our campaign. They all count, and we have just 32 left. There has been very little evidence that those next 32 are going to be any easier.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Because it's not.

And neither were these first 6 games, now you understand? 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I think it's a fair point. Losing Skipp and Buendia, which were unavoidable, has meant a rebuild at the heart of the team.  It was always going to be a tough start and really, only one game has been the real issue - the Watford game. If we had won that game and were sitting on three points now, we would at least look like we were in the battle for survival, whereas without a point, it looks much worse than it perhaps is in reality.

One game.....and one game can change it, too.

Yes the Watford game was the bad one, but every other game was an opportunity to show something in our performances (not even necessarily winning any points), yet we've offered next to nothing. The manner of the defeats has been so disappointing. I haven't found one positive comment from any pundit about our performances so far this season, and its hard to argue there are any.

On top of Watford, the Everton and Leicester games in particular were against sides who were severely hampered with injuries and who played very poorly on the day, yet we couldn't even salvage a point in either game. If we are writing off these types of game then there really is no hope of us surviving. 

However, I do think the Everton game was a slight improvement in terms of the performance and general solidity at the back (other than the two individual errors but still more that can be said versus Watford), its not so much a positive but a possible glimmer of light, that if Normann and Kabak can settle then I think we can start picking up points soon and competing a bit better. 

Let's just not try to dress up our start like it hasn't been a total disaster, because it absolutely has. 

 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

On the OP, I am personally drawing from how things have mapped out since the Watford game, as this was the first game with Kabak and Normann and the first game I feel we finally got our team together. 

I appreciate other posters won't be granting so much leniency, and the first 4 games which were overall poorer than they should've been, plus the last 10 games from 19/20, will be used against Farke. But for me he has earned more goodwill than that, and I don't see the value in shaking up an already unfamiliar bunch of players with a totally new coach / coaching philosophy when they're all still trying to find their places. To me that would just cause total chaos. 

So roughly speaking from the Watford game, the performance was probably a 2-3 / 10, and then the subsequent Everton performance was probably a 4 / 10. 

Another week of training and we have Burnley away, I feel like we could improve again and start finding our feet somewhat. Any result would be great to shake this losing run off our back. 

Let's see where we are in a few more games, but I do have a feeling that our losing run will end on Saturday or versus Brighton and the mood might start to change. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Thats what the club appear to have done since farke keeps saying we are only 3 points behind the plan. Unfortunately its about 1/6th of our season and 18 valuable points we could have competed better for. 

[komakino 272]

59 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

With the budget so tight and with players not putting us at the top of their list of transfer destinations isn't there a case to cut the manager and his squad some slack particularly with so many late arrivals? 

Half the squad are new players and they haven't played together much have they? 

No. All clubs change personnel, though not usually as much as us. Whose responsibility is that? The club did not have to do it that way. 

The club is responsible for where we are and they are responsible to try and get out of their self-inflicted hole. 

[hogesar 9,658]

1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Were we the only team to buy players at the end of the window?

So we're writing off the first 6.

Don't forget the 'free hits' against Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, how far do we go? Leicester, Everton?

We now need 40 point from 18 games.

Good luck with that.

Whilst your general point is fair, I'm not sure we'll need 40 points.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

42 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Thats what the club appear to have done since farke keeps saying we are only 3 points behind the plan. Unfortunately its about 1/6th of our season and 18 valuable points we could have competed better for. 

So we planned to beat Watford, but projected we'd lose the rest of the games... even Everton away, a mid-table side? 

We're beaten before we even kick a ball under this management. Look at plucky Brentford believing they can take points off anybody, and then doing so. Liverpool, Arsenal, no problem... we give these teams too much respect. 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

So we planned to beat Watford, but lose the rest of the games... even Everton away, a mid-table side? 

I have no idea but Farke keeps saying it. I don;t like it. Is there any wonder we lack intensity in some of these games where they clearly feel under zero pressure to get anything.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

I have no idea but Farke keeps saying it. I don;t like it. Is there any wonder we lack intensity in some of these games where they clearly feel under zero pressure to get anything.

Beaten before kick off with this mentality.

I can remember Grant Holt scoring against all the top sides, we had a proper "have a go" attitude, a few upsets, close to a few others.

Not a fan of paying teams too much respect, they can all have off days or come unstuck.

[hogesar 9,658]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Beaten before kick off with this mentality.

I can remember Grant Holt scoring against all the top sides, we had a proper "have a go" attitude, a few upsets, close to a few others.

Not a fan of paying teams too much respect, they can all have off days or come unstuck.

I think people need to learn to distinguish between what a Manager / Coach might say to the media as opposed to privately. He has to manage the players, external pressures and 'noise'.

If this was Farke's mentality then I don't think we'd have beaten the likes of Man City at home, Spurs away in the cup etc. And it sounds even more ridiculous if the suggestion is Farke's suddenly decided to adopt a defeatist mentality.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Bonzo said:

With the budget so tight and with players not putting us at the top of their list of transfer destinations isn't there a case to cut the manager and his squad some slack particularly with so many late arrivals? 

Half the squad are new players and they haven't played together much have they? 

Are Brentford going to write off their 9 points then?

And Watford their 7 points?

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

 

And it sounds even more ridiculous if the suggestion is Farke's suddenly decided to adopt a defeatist mentality.

Has any human in the history of this planet "decided to adopt a defeatist mentality"? 

What a a strange and abstract idea, very Mighty Boosh. Got any mushies?

 

 

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[hogesar 9,658]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Has any human in the history of this planet "decided to adopt a defeatist mentality"? 

What a a strange and abstract idea, very Mighty Boosh. Got any mushies?

 

 

 

Yeah, hence it would be ridiculous if anyone was coming to that conclusion.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Call them games 'gimmes'......

[Google Bot 3,275]

7 hours ago, CDMullins said:

We now need 40 point from 18 games.

Wait!  There's only 13 teams in the prem league now? What's happened?

[Virtual reality 707]

8 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I think it's a fair point. Losing Skipp and Buendia, which were unavoidable, has meant a rebuild at the heart of the team.  It was always going to be a tough start and really, only one game has been the real issue - the Watford game. If we had won that game and were sitting on three points now, we would at least look like we were in the battle for survival, whereas without a point, it looks much worse than it perhaps is in reality.

One game.....and one game can change it, too.

Skipp was unavoidable. Buendia wasn’t. He was under contract and yes I know people will say you can’t keep an unhappy player when bigger clubs come calling but Crystal Palace managed to with Saha, and Spurs fought off a world record bid for Kane didn’t they. 

[CDMullins 436]

6 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

Skipp was unavoidable. Buendia wasn’t. He was under contract and yes I know people will say you can’t keep an unhappy player when bigger clubs come calling but Crystal Palace managed to with Saha, and Spurs fought off a world record bid for Kane didn’t they. 

How's that going?

[Virtual reality 707]

4 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

How's that going?

Think their problems lie in appointing their 5th choice manager rather than keeping Harry Kane…..

Edited September 27, 2021 by Virtual reality

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

I can cut the manager slack for results if there have been improvements and solid performances and effort. Sadly everything has been lacking in those departments. Basics such as fundamental defending and a very poor understanding of what it takes to win games at this level have resulted in rightful criticism of the start to this campaign. I am still prepared to give them a couple more games to get it moving in the right direction but if there are no signs of improvement on Saturday how much longer do you need to give a sinking ship? 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

45 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Wait!  There's only 13 teams in the prem league now? What's happened?

I think what the op was basically counting us out against the top 6. Which is a fairly reasonable assumption but a point or two would be a pleasant surprise 

[Google Bot 3,275]

5 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Which is a fairly reasonable assumption but a point or two would be a pleasant surprise 

Considering that 40% of our wins the in the prem league in 19/20 were against top 6 teams, anything should be on the table. Obviously we only got 5 wins in total, but it makes for a nice big number as a percentage. 🙂

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

I'm not as prepared to lump the Leicester game in the same 'unwinnable' file as Liverpool and Man City .

Yes on paper when the fixture list came out it looked tough...but when it came to the game ,they had 5 defenders out (Fofana Evans Vestergaard Justin and Bertrand)..and had Pereira go off injured during the game.

They basically had a winger (Castagne) at right back...a midfielder (Armarty) at CB and their third choice LB (Thomas).

We couldnt have timed meeting them any better when we did and I maintain most other clubs in this league would have taken advantage and beaten them

Only got to look at their results before and since to see that they were beatable...or at least not to be beaten by

It would have been an interesting last 10 mins had McLean's goal been allowed to stand

Edited September 27, 2021 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[chicken 2,624]

9 hours ago, CDMullins said:

Were we the only team to buy players at the end of the window?

So we're writing off the first 6.

Don't forget the 'free hits' against Man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, how far do we go? Leicester, Everton?

We now need 40 point from 18 games.

Good luck with that.

Never need 40pts. Realistically it's more like 35/36. 

12 wins essentially.

Leicester finished higher than Arsenal and Spurs last season, and the season before (19-20).