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Pyro Pete

How many defeats can Farke withstand?

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1 minute ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

If he leaves my 'mutual consent'...he was sacked

Doesn't have to be 'mutual consent' though does it? He can quite simply say.' I've had enough and here's my resignation

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Just now, yellowrider120 said:

Doesn't have to be 'mutual consent' though does it? He can quite simply say.' I've had enough and here's my resignation

Unlikely when he's just signed a 4 yr contract

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40 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

..but we are in the Premier League NOW ...shouldnt we be fighting tooth and nail and doing everything we can to maintain that?

Even if that means changing the manager?

There's absolutely no guarantee that we can keep thinking we'll come straight back up each time we get relegated because it just might not .

We didnt sack Alex Neil when we should have done in his relegation when the warning signd were there that he wasnt going to keep us up

We left it far too late in sacking Hughton when he was taking us down to have given the next man a fair chance to retrieve it.

Please ,lets not make the same mistake.

I just cant accept that there couldnt be another manager out there that could give us better chance of getting points in this league.

If every club thought there wasnt, no club would ever dismiss their manager

I certainly think we should fight tooth and nail.

I just take the view that sacking the manager is more likely to be counter-productive. I would prefer to give DF time to work with the new players and improve us. I still think the sample size and toughness of fixtures makes it far too early to draw the conclusion that DF can't succeed at this level.

The other issue is that getting someone 'better' than DF would be very difficult. They would have to have more premier league experience presumably, be willing to work under a DoF model, be willing to accept that they have to play academy products, work within a self-financed model and play an attractive brand of football as stated by Webber.

Good luck with that search. I think we have the right man for the job here already. 

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46 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

I certainly think we should fight tooth and nail.

I just take the view that sacking the manager is more likely to be counter-productive. I would prefer to give DF time to work with the new players and improve us. I still think the sample size and toughness of fixtures makes it far too early to draw the conclusion that DF can't succeed at this level.

The other issue is that getting someone 'better' than DF would be very difficult. They would have to have more premier league experience presumably, be willing to work under a DoF model, be willing to accept that they have to play academy products, work within a self-financed model and play an attractive brand of football as stated by Webber.

Good luck with that search. I think we have the right man for the job here already. 

Nothing is worth being made to look a national laughing stock week in week out for the rest of the season

Evidence is there (5 wins in 44 premier league games) that Farke isnt a good enough operator in this league

..and I wont buy into the idea that its him or nobody

Edited by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary
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Personally, this season, he can withstand 38 defeats.

This pattern of one season in the Prem and one season in the Championship is worth about 140 million quid over two years minus the costs of a relatively cheap squad that is steadily building the financial muscle of the club. 

We have a solid footballing identity that is proving very reliable in getting us back to the Premier league. A change of manager means a change in approach that jeopardises that. Eventually, we will establish ourselves in the Premier League on this course, but as real contenders with an identity. 

I don't see any value in gambling that on whoever happens to be an out of work manager at the time. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie
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It won't be the defeats but the manner of them, I'd have thought. Farke rightly has a lot of credit in the bank with 99% of fans. If we are 12 games into the season with no points and not showing signs of improvement id be surprised if fans didn't turn (I personally don't think I would but its hard to answer until you've witnessed the performances). If we've got a draw or two or been incredibly unlucky in a couple it'll buy him another 3, 4 or 5 games.

Either way, not something I'm thinking about actively. Much more interested in hoping the lads can turn in a performance at Burnley.

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25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, this season, he can withstand 38 defeats.

This pattern of one season in the Prem and one season in the Championship is worth about 140 million quid over two years minus the costs of a relatively cheap squad that is steadily building the financial muscle of the club. 

We have a solid footballing identity that is proving very reliable in getting us back to the Premier league. A change of manager means a change in approach that jeopardises that. Eventually, we will establish ourselves in the Premier League on this course, but as real contenders with an identity. 

I don't see any value in gambling that on whoever happens to be an out of work manager at the time. 

GJL - the above is exactly what I think too so I won't bother to reply. 

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1 hour ago, Kingston Yellow said:

You’re not too bright Justin are you? If we were actually capable of competing in this league, we ought to have picked up some points from the Leicester / Arsenal / Watford / Everton cluster of games.  Between 3 and 5 points should have been achievable.  


Part of the problem is people like you who are happy with the status quo.

I take it people like you are equally part of your problem?

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If it comes to it he will walk before being sacked.

Long contract yes but I really think he would. 

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3 hours ago, Kingston Yellow said:

If things don’t improve, fast, Webber should be shown the door too.  

No need to sack him, he leaves in June.

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Think it would take us to be 9 points adrift before Christmas for him to get the boot.  He's too integrated at the club to be an easy dismissal for the board.

Just hope he can turn it around WAY before it gets anything near that level though.

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I think perhaps the tense is incorrect. We "have" a strong identity! We had a strong identity last season playing high pressing attractive football with an unrivalled outcome of goals and points. This is what makes this season so frustrating, as that identity has evaporated. Brentfords hasn't and the results are there for all to see.

 

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The home crowd have already started to turn and the boos will get louder the longer this appalling bad form goes on for!

 

I think the Board would tolerate the run going on until Xmas at least but what will tip matters over the edge will be the crowd which will make things intolerable and I'd like to think that Farke would be honourable enough to fall on his own sword?

 

Any sane Norwich fan will see the good that has happened at the club in the Webber/ Farke era and Farke leaving may upset the mechanisms of the "project" but the current non competitive nature of Norwich City in the top flight isn't acceptable.

 

Like I said in another post, if we lose next Saturday at Burnley and then against Brighton at home after that then Farkes position will be untenable. 

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4 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, this season, he can withstand 38 defeats.

This pattern of one season in the Prem and one season in the Championship is worth about 140 million quid over two years minus the costs of a relatively cheap squad that is steadily building the financial muscle of the club. 

We have a solid footballing identity that is proving very reliable in getting us back to the Premier league. A change of manager means a change in approach that jeopardises that. Eventually, we will establish ourselves in the Premier League on this course, but as real contenders with an identity. 

I don't see any value in gambling that on whoever happens to be an out of work manager at the time. 

I like what you're saying but there will have to be an upturn in performances if not results for enough of the fans to keep with it.

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9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I like what you're saying but there will have to be an upturn in performances if not results for enough of the fans to keep with it.

I was being slightly facetious in saying 38; I fully expect us to improve as the season goes on. But I do think that losing confidence in Farke and starting to think about what out of work manager we should rush for is laughable, in the least amusing way possible, for all the reasons I mention. 

Edited by littleyellowbirdie

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13 hours ago, Justin time said:

Be honest now, with the teams we have played how many points did you think we would have?

At least 3

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31 minutes ago, ROBFLECK said:

At least 3

It’s about what I would have thought. Therefore I am not panicking just yet. That may change if it carries on for many more games.

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11 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I was being slightly facetious in saying 38; I fully expect us to improve as the season goes on. But I do think that losing confidence in Farke and starting to think about what out of work manager we should rush for is laughable, in the least amusing way possible, for all the reasons I mention. 

Why do they have to be out of work?

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17 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Admittedly that is true. However I've seen little evidence yet to suggest that the stadium is ready to turn on the manager en masse. 

 

Not sure about this- I was surprised how much booing their was post Watford, considering most people had been on the 'don't expect anything from the first 4 games' train.

If we come into the Leeds game still without a win on the board, and we play poorly I think the crowd will turn in a large way.

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i think 10 games without a point i think the 11th game is Brentford so will be mutual consent Farke walks but Delia gives him 2 year wages golden handshake 

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I keep thinking back to Worthington and when the players downed tools against (I think) Burnley. Nigel was not going to resign as he would have lost money, but knew he had gone beyond his time. Therefore some sort of agreement must have been reached. 

Farke is in that awkward phase of where the players haven't downed their tools, but he isn't getting anything out of them either. The longer Daniel stays at Norwich City, the longer his reputation will suffer, so he should take the matter into his own hands. Delia will want another uncritical 'yes' man, but preferably the one who is already here. 

It also got me thinking of when Ed Balls wanted Alex Neill sacked after relegation, but Delia overruled him and kept him for the following season. Therefore any chance of Farke going soon is highly unlikely. 

Edited by komakino

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20 hours ago, hogesar said:

It won't be the defeats but the manner of them, I'd have thought. Farke rightly has a lot of credit in the bank with 99% of fans. If we are 12 games into the season with no points and not showing signs of improvement id be surprised if fans didn't turn (I personally don't think I would but its hard to answer until you've witnessed the performances). If we've got a draw or two or been incredibly unlucky in a couple it'll buy him another 3, 4 or 5 games.

I agree with much of this. I think the manner of the defeats will determine whether the fans stick behind with Farke. Narrow defeats like the Leicester game will keep him on side with the fans. Comprehensive defeats like the Watford game, against teams we are expected to compete with will see supporters lose faith.

But ultimately it depends on what Webber and the board think.

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19 hours ago, kingsway said:

The home crowd have already started to turn and the boos will get louder the longer this appalling bad form goes on for!

 

I think the Board would tolerate the run going on until Xmas at least but what will tip matters over the edge will be the crowd which will make things intolerable and I'd like to think that Farke would be honourable enough to fall on his own sword?

 

Any sane Norwich fan will see the good that has happened at the club in the Webber/ Farke era and Farke leaving may upset the mechanisms of the "project" but the current non competitive nature of Norwich City in the top flight isn't acceptable.

 

Like I said in another post, if we lose next Saturday at Burnley and then against Brighton at home after that then Farkes position will be untenable. 

Agree - 100%!

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21 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Personally, this season, he can withstand 38 defeats.

This pattern of one season in the Prem and one season in the Championship is worth about 140 million quid over two years minus the costs of a relatively cheap squad that is steadily building the financial muscle of the club. 

We have a solid footballing identity that is proving very reliable in getting us back to the Premier league. A change of manager means a change in approach that jeopardises that. Eventually, we will establish ourselves in the Premier League on this course, but as real contenders with an identity. 


I don't see any value in gambling that on whoever happens to be an out of work manager at the time. 

Absolutely lost for words!

Oh and incidentally, why must a change in manager mean a 'change in approach'??

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39 minutes ago, Pyro Pete said:

I agree with much of this. I think the manner of the defeats will determine whether the fans stick behind with Farke. Narrow defeats like the Leicester game will keep him on side with the fans. Comprehensive defeats like the Watford game, against teams we are expected to compete with will see supporters lose faith.

But ultimately it depends on what Webber and the board think.

I agree although there needs to be a few points picked up in their too. Say we get to 12 games with no points at all, I dont think it'll matter to fans how tight the game is. 

 

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On 27/09/2021 at 18:27, yellowrider120 said:

Absolutely lost for words!

Oh and incidentally, why must a change in manager mean a 'change in approach'??

Because historically there has been a change in style every time we've changed managers and if we traded in we'd either be getting an unemployed has-been or an unproven unknown quantity. 

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