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Where did it all go wrong Daniel, Stuart, Delia?

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16 hours ago, sgncfc said:

No one can say we haven't "progressed" - we are now buying £8-£10m players, and several of them. That's progress from when Farke/Webber arrived, and we're doing it without potentially bankrupting the club with Naismith and Klose type signings.

Whatever happens this season (and remember, we are still only 6 games in, and our manager still believes we will stay up) we will still be in a much stronger poistion at the start of next season than when they arrived. And we will still be top 26.

All very fair points.

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16 hours ago, sgncfc said:

No one can say we haven't "progressed" - we are now buying £8-£10m players, and several of them. That's progress from when Farke/Webber arrived, and we're doing it without potentially bankrupting the club with Naismith and Klose type signings.

Whatever happens this season (and remember, we are still only 6 games in, and our manager still believes we will stay up) we will still be in a much stronger poistion at the start of next season than when they arrived. And we will still be top 26.

Progressed relative to what though? I'm not sure I see buying multiple £10m players as progression more than a reflection of the general inflation of prices for footballers over the years. 

What we have done is established ourselves as 'top' Championship team, along with West Brom, Fulham etc who are expected to be in the promotion hunt if we're in that league. But I'd argue that is similar to where we were during the McNally years. 

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I've not read all through this thread, but I've re-read the op and I still disagree with the premise that has been put forward by Parma.  A lot of what he says is logical, but the conclusions are premature.  I know - and have said - it's no surprise we have done so badly to start with this season, but I find the conclusion that Pukki needs Buendia as a bit of an insult to him and to the rest of the players. Pukki is that good in his movement that any good player should be able to find him on one of his intelligent runs - as Normann did the other week.  We have a stronger squad - as Parma says - but he says we have no weapons - and that again is a bit of an insult imo to the players. 

We have potential weapons in droves and that potential can be realised this season. It will be difficult, but if we stick to our guns and not give in to the constant pressure of being told to change the way we do things, we will see that potential flourish.  We need to improve - but we won't do that by changing the way we play - if you want to improve something you keep practicing it until it gets better - you don't abandon it  because people say it's "naive" or whatever.

So I would say to the op - I disagree that we have no weapons, I disgree that we could - or should - have kept Buendia, I disagree that Pukki isn't the same player without Buendia and overall I find it a bit negative in outlook, which I'm a bit surprised about really, because Farke is playing football how it should be played - and if we are ever to break into the PL and stay there it will be by playing Farkeball or something very similar. You aim to play the best football possible with what you've got and if that isn't good enough, you go back and try again. Pragmatic football is for those that would be happy just surviving in the PL, even if it means playing football that is soulless to watch. Play the beautiful game, not a watered down version.  Once you lose the knack of playing the beautiful game, it is hard to get it back. Imo, we have temporarliy lost that with all the changes, but the challenge is to get that back - and Farke is the man to get it back, because he never loses sight of that vision.  Alex Neil tried to adjust his attacking style of game to be more pragmatic and that didn't go well - we lost everything that was good in the process. 

What is clear - or should be - to everyone this season, is that there have been a lot of changes - and drawing conclusions at this stage that we have failed, are failing, or won't be any good this season is just being negative for the sake of it. No-one likes having no points, but it can and will change - not because we change significantly, but that we carry on doing what we do and have done since Farke arrived.....but do it better.

 

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On 26/09/2021 at 13:57, Parma Ham's gone mouldy said:

Where did it all go wrong Daniel, Stuart, Delia?
 

I had a client who - aside from other things - was a leading National risk assessor for Health & Safety accidents at work. 

When thinking about apportioning blame for any perceived failure, I often think about his firmly-held belief - borne of repeated experience - that major failures are almost always the consequence of a string of (he would say predominantly-avoidable) smaller errors occurring in collective sequence.

These errors can be broken down into the strategic, the operational-systemic and the individual. The overriding driver for assessment is learning and structural improvement where necessary. 

Much as it is with Norwich. 

In the immediate aftermath of failure, my client would consider it highly unwise to leap to find fast answers and apportion useful blame. It is something of a human instinct, though it is a poor substitute for slower, more considered thinking. 

Norwich don’t have enough money to compete on an equal footing at this level. This is undoubtedly a massive hindrance and defines a number of macro imperatives that drive subsequent sporting decisions. 

Let’s start with the obvious. There are few Norwich fans who would argue against the statement that Buendia was our best player last year and that Skipp was our most important. Buendia for pure ability to hurt the opposition and affect games, week in, week out. He cannot be ignored strategically by the opposition, they have to change their own preferred plans to adjust to his very presence. Coaching definition: a weapon. Skipp naturally played the exact way that offered a key counterpoint to the way Farke likes to play and set up his sides. He instinctively acted as a third centre back when necessary, didn’t get sucked forward or out of shape when we were on top, smelt danger before it arrives and was fast into the fire at its outbreak. If he was not priceless to us, his role was. If not him, then someone had to bought to do that exact job. It is even more important at the top level. This is not hindsight, it was pretty clear to the vast majority of Norwich fans who watch their team regularly. 

Let us now shoot a canard or two to move the discussion forward.  It is unheard of to sell your best player and major weapon upon promotion. Unheard of. The timing of it is extraordinary. It was a huge gamble and - slightly - smells of a compulsive need-belief in ‘doing differently’ to the point where you try to reinvent the wheel in evangelical belief. 


Norwich did not have to sell Buendia. There have been thousands of footballers who pitched for a move, who got their agent to get spiky, who leaked some ‘come-and-get-me’ pleas, a thousand gentleman’s agreements in football that weren’t worth the toilet paper they weren’t wiped on. Norwich were premier League. Buendia was under contract. Promotion was fresh.

Norwich chose  to sell Buendia. 

This goes to the heart of the issue, as it combines the weaknesses of lack of finance with sporting strategy. 

It is not retrospective wisdom to note that at the top level teams are full of powerful, capable squads who have the top level nous to minimise on-field strategic weakness (and force the best to be brilliant, week-in, week-out). Weaker teams face more pressure and thus weaker players make more individual mistakes. Is this then really errors of the individual or the inevitable odds of the wheel of fortune?

Stuart Webber wisely stated that we would not try to compete with this, that we couldn’t, that we would focus on improving the first xi and not spread money around a vast squad of interchangeable (likely not-quite-as-good-as-everyone-else’s) players. 

Nevertheless the decision was made to sell Buendia - who not only a weapon in his own right, but also ensured that Pukki his compadre was at least half a weapon. That’s already good enough to trouble teams a bit. 

What has been bought are not weapons. They are good players. We are on average much better as a squad, yet conversely less dangerous to the opposition. There is the trade. It seems at odds with the early-in-pre-season statement. 

Daniel Farke can pick two good teams every week, though not an eleven that can trouble the opposition. This looks like an expensive mis-calculation. 

There may be a necessary asset investment angle to this. A Tzolis, a Sargent, a Rashica can flourish and suddenly be a valuable asset. They may stay and thrive in the Championship. This strategy may be a product of lack of finance. It would be hard to argue that it doesn’t sacrifice the here-and-now though. 

The painful truth may be that Daniel, Stuart and Delia have all done as well as they can with what they have. 

Demanding change now may be missing the point. Daniel may be wedded to a dominant footballing philosophy that flourishes exclusively against the weaker. Stuart may have ‘done different’ one too many times and succumbed to the - often wonderful - religious fervour of a new  Messiah. Delia may be right to rail against the dreadful capitalism of the whole thing….but….
 

…Maths is a terrible adversary however and all the numbers are against us with what we have. Unpicking the stitching in the dugout changes little if the over-arching fundamentals remain the same. Farke may be the lightning rod, Webber may seek pastures new and trade off well-earned previous glories, Delia may cling on with an ever-tighter grip like Miss Haversham in the crumbling manor…but what then? Does the cycle repeat….the wonderful, awful pain and joy of yo-yo greatness and awfulness? The railing against Murdoch’s millions while gobbling it up so it can be dribbled away to pay for the inevitable annual millions lost in the Championship?

Farke has an array of good players, though he has no weapons. Even Pukki is emasculated without Buendia. Of course when you have one or two weapons you are dependent. Of course you are one injury away from a real issue. Though even that wily old warhorse Steve Bruce - no-ones favourite for favourite manager of the year - essentially builds a solid, effective team then ‘gives the ball to the lad Saint-Maximin’ while the others players sit tight, watch and applaud. It is an effective strategy for the job at hand. Newcastle stay up comfortably (also not enough for fans of course, one must ever move forwards..such is top level sport). Unless you are a truly wealthy, incredible team you cannot hold many weapons for long though. Though the magpies do keep Saint-Maximin, Spurs do not sell Kane and nobody - but nobody - sells such a weapon at the point of promotion. 

Norwich are hamstrung by their ownership model. Self-sustaining to an absolutist degree is an extraordinary strategy in football. There is no money. Self-sustaining is not a philosophy or a laudable guiding principle, it is borne of necessity. Everything - selling Buendia included - flows from there. 

Unless Delia gives the shares away or bequeathes them to a group or individual, then they must be bought. They do have a value. Let us say that the club is worth £100m. To buy 65% of the club, an investor, new benefactor, lottery winner must spend £65m on a nameplate. Before anything else happens. £65m spent and not a single loan left back added yet. No wonder there ‘is no queue of investors lining Carrow Road’. 

So this is it. This is where the maths ends up and the road we tread again. Farke is a red herring. Sacking the manager changes nothing. I’m not even sure that 2 or 3 ardent fans would agree on what our best xi is, what shape it should be, where our best weapons are. I’m afraid simply railing that ‘we should get after them more’….or ‘we don’t go at teams from the off’ … or ..’we need to want it more’ is pointless, worthless nonsense.

We have spent Buendia on a lot of players who are better than we had before and a lot less not-as-good-as-everyone-else’s. Though we don’t have anything now to really hurt teams tactically with. ‘Both boxes’ as the old boys used to say. 

Our failure is a cascading collection of small weaknesses and inter-connecting sticking plasters to cover the gaping wound of lack of finance. All of it is understandable.

If we really want to ‘do different’ it is time to reach out to the SME world, to the Tifosys trading ground bond supporters, small investors, loyal individuals and create a genuinely inclusive French-Shared-Mortgage model whereby the small slices of ownership fluctuate according to investment size at any given moment. Whereby any small (vetted) investor gets a marketing share of brand usage, whereby the community and collective spirit is honourably leveraged to create a membership-style model that would truly be a fitting legacy to Delia’s wonderful era. She herself could and should be a major part going forwards. Like it or not, intended or not, the club has become a massively appreciated asset. It’s value has increased maybe tenfold from the very welcome, though contextually small investment of (anecdotally) £10m or less. 

The majority of the £100m is now Delia’s. She can hand it down to Tom. He can keep it or cash it in. Maybe it is a theoretical £100m that never sees the light of day. If you ask for that money from an investor, I would be reasonably sure it would never materialise. The ‘doors are open’ offer to sell is thus a somewhat theoretical one. It also would have no benefit to Norwich City. Not a pound would enter the club from such a share sale. Something of a circular reference self-fulfilling prophecy then….

..and so we have 20 odd good players and no Buendia. Nor any Skipp. Nor any points. 

Not really an accident at all.

Parma 

 

 

 

Has it gone  wrong? Are we relegated already? Your post is so long I can't be bothered to read it. 

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11 minutes ago, Harry53 said:

Has it gone  wrong? Are we relegated already? Your post is so long I can't be bothered to read it. 

Rather than making rude comments on an interesting thread why don't you find a picture book to look at?

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17 hours ago, sgncfc said:

No one can say we haven't "progressed" - we are now buying £8-£10m players, and several of them. That's progress from when Farke/Webber arrived, and we're doing it without potentially bankrupting the club with Naismith and Klose type signings.

Whatever happens this season (and remember, we are still only 6 games in, and our manager still believes we will stay up) we will still be in a much stronger poistion at the start of next season than when they arrived. And we will still be top 26.

I remember when Bowkett wanted us to be a Top 10 side... The whole 'Top 26' mantra is building in failure of which the fans deserve better. Player inflation means £8-10M is no big deal and the club would have been far better off being less players, but better players. Quite why Webber thought we needed numbers we did, I don't know, but I think we have a worse starting XI than last year. We have more numbers, but on current evidence an embarrassment of mediocrity - which in the EPL just won't do. 

What Farke says to the media and what he actually believes may not be the same thing. No manager is actually going to say what they really think. Example:

Interviewer: 'You took player x of during the second half?Why was that?'

Manager: 'He was having a terrible game, acting like a really lazy *******'

For Media: 'I decided to make tactical changes'. 

 

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Why do the fans 'deserve' better than the top 26 in the country? Especially when we've been top 21 really under Webber. Why do we deserve to be better than that ahead of other clubs?

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11 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Why do the fans 'deserve' better than the top 26 in the country? Especially when we've been top 21 really under Webber. Why do we deserve to be better than that ahead of other clubs?

Because our aspirations have gone down, quite dramatically with part of our fan base. If Chase would have said 'Top 26', he would have been lynched and thrown in the Wensum with weights around his neck. But he did actually want to be in the EPL and when we weren't, the fans correctly turned and didn't look for excuses. 

 

Edited by komakino

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

I've not read all through this thread, but I've re-read the op and I still disagree with the premise that has been put forward by Parma.  A lot of what he says is logical, but the conclusions are premature.  I know - and have said - it's no surprise we have done so badly to start with this season, but I find the conclusion that Pukki needs Buendia as a bit of an insult to him and to the rest of the players. Pukki is that good in his movement that any good player should be able to find him on one of his intelligent runs - as Normann did the other week.  We have a stronger squad - as Parma says - but he says we have no weapons - and that again is a bit of an insult imo to the players. 

We have potential weapons in droves and that potential can be realised this season. It will be difficult, but if we stick to our guns and not give in to the constant pressure of being told to change the way we do things, we will see that potential flourish.  We need to improve - but we won't do that by changing the way we play - if you want to improve something you keep practicing it until it gets better - you don't abandon it  because people say it's "naive" or whatever.

So I would say to the op - I disagree that we have no weapons, I disgree that we could - or should - have kept Buendia, I disagree that Pukki isn't the same player without Buendia and overall I find it a bit negative in outlook, which I'm a bit surprised about really, because Farke is playing football how it should be played - and if we are ever to break into the PL and stay there it will be by playing Farkeball or something very similar. You aim to play the best football possible with what you've got and if that isn't good enough, you go back and try again. Pragmatic football is for those that would be happy just surviving in the PL, even if it means playing football that is soulless to watch. Play the beautiful game, not a watered down version.  Once you lose the knack of playing the beautiful game, it is hard to get it back. Imo, we have temporarliy lost that with all the changes, but the challenge is to get that back - and Farke is the man to get it back, because he never loses sight of that vision.  Alex Neil tried to adjust his attacking style of game to be more pragmatic and that didn't go well - we lost everything that was good in the process. 

What is clear - or should be - to everyone this season, is that there have been a lot of changes - and drawing conclusions at this stage that we have failed, are failing, or won't be any good this season is just being negative for the sake of it. No-one likes having no points, but it can and will change - not because we change significantly, but that we carry on doing what we do and have done since Farke arrived.....but do it better.

 

 

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21 minutes ago, Canaries north said:

 

Sorry I hit the submit button by mistake. If you count someone saying we have no weapons as an insult then it is up to the players to prove people wrong and so far they are not. You also said Farke shouldn't change the way he plays but he already is. In the championship we beat all the lower teams but struggled against the top 3 or 4. I'm not a big stats man but the stats with and without Buendia even in the championship were frightening. Were we as a team that good against the bottom teams or did we have that one player who's trickery would win the game but when up against bigger faster better players even he could not win the game for us. I asked this question before and am still not sure of the answer. 

Edited by Canaries north
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29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Why do the fans 'deserve' better than the top 26 in the country? Especially when we've been top 21 really under Webber. Why do we deserve to be better than that ahead of other clubs?

Win a couple of games and this flood of negativity about our club will disappear. Like they did the last bad run, and the one before that and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that, and the one before that and the one before that......

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22 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

I think we've added pace to both defence and attack so I think we may yet see a higher line and a more counter attacking style.

I think the team has the potential to do it, I'm just not sure the coach has the will. 

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48 minutes ago, komakino said:

Because our aspirations have gone down, quite dramatically with part of our fan base. If Chase would have said 'Top 26', he would have been lynched and thrown in the Wensum with weights around his neck. But he did actually want to be in the EPL and when we weren't, the fans correctly turned and didn't look for excuses. 

 

The financial disparity in football is slightly different from Chase era though, surely you know this? That fans are now intelligent and aware enough to recognise this shouldn't be a criticism.

And any board member can state any ambition. Bowkett could have said we are aiming for top 4 instead of top 10 but wouldn't have made a difference.

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I remember driving  to training one evening a few years ago  and hearing on the radio  that our form,  in the top flight,was only equalled by a rather good Barcelona  side. Our Manager.... Good old Chris H.  

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39 minutes ago, hogesar said:

The financial disparity in football is slightly different from Chase era though, surely you know this? That fans are now intelligent and aware enough to recognise this shouldn't be a criticism.

And any board member can state any ambition. Bowkett could have said we are aiming for top 4 instead of top 10 but wouldn't have made a difference.

While the disparity is different to a degree, why should we have been left behind? The problem we've all had to endure is seeing the hope of getting rid of Chase only to be replaced by rank amateurs - in football terms  - of Smith & Jones. They don't invest or attract investment and famously said they 'would never sell' and 'don't even listen to offers'. 

Fans have accepted this, from our brief extreme tenures in the EPL and League One and plodding Championship. If there isn't the will at the top, then the will cannot filter down. 

I just find it so very desperately sad that the club I supported when I was younger did then have reasonable and fair ambitions, whereas now it is bread, with the occasional piece of jam - while being told to be grateful. 

No sir. 

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2 minutes ago, komakino said:

I just find it so very desperately sad that the club I supported when I was younger did then have reasonable and fair ambitions, whereas now it is bread, with the occasional piece of jam - while being told to be grateful.

But the club is ambitious. It is ambitious to build the resources, build the quality of the playing staff, build the infrastructure, over a period of years so it can compete and stay in the PL with a high quality squad and top quality facilities - and without putting us in peril financially as happened in the "good old days" of the early 90s when we did great....and then the money ran out. 

The alternative to the plan/project/policies - or whatever people want to call it - is to be bought out by some unbelievable fairy tale benefactor who would have to pay £100m plus just to buy enough shares, then be prepared to throw in an extra £200 million plus to bankroll the team. There isn't anyone who would do that! The only scenario where we would get an investor of any kind is if the club fails, drops back to L1, has debts - and a share price that is rock bottom. Do we want that?  Do we want to fail, the club virtually go to the wall so we can get such an investor - and when, despite money, there would still be no guarantees of success?

I think people have to forget the past and concentrate on the present - that is that we are in a battle to stay in the PL and have a decent shot of it if we can just get off the mark with a point here and there and build from that point onwards. I loved the success of the past, but it is in the past.

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28 minutes ago, komakino said:

While the disparity is different to a degree, why should we have been left behind? The problem we've all had to endure is seeing the hope of getting rid of Chase only to be replaced by rank amateurs - in football terms  - of Smith & Jones. They don't invest or attract investment and famously said they 'would never sell' and 'don't even listen to offers'. 

Fans have accepted this, from our brief extreme tenures in the EPL and League One and plodding Championship. If there isn't the will at the top, then the will cannot filter down. 

I just find it so very desperately sad that the club I supported when I was younger did then have reasonable and fair ambitions, whereas now it is bread, with the occasional piece of jam - while being told to be grateful. 

No sir. 

Chase gave us the best years of football we have ever had but was roasted when expectations became ridiculous. Ever since S&J bluffed their way in they have gotten away with much, much worse than that which saw Chase hounded out with barely a whimper from the ever so grateful clappies.

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, king canary said:

Progressed relative to what though? I'm not sure I see buying multiple £10m players as progression more than a reflection of the general inflation of prices for footballers over the years. 

What we have done is established ourselves as 'top' Championship team, along with West Brom, Fulham etc who are expected to be in the promotion hunt if we're in that league. But I'd argue that is similar to where we were during the McNally years. 

Progressed compared to when they arrived, which is what this thread is about - supposedly it has all "gone wrong". Except it hasn't.

Apart from short periods when we spent 8 or 9 continuous seasons in both the top flight and the second division, Norwich City has always been a yo yo team. Establishing the club in that space between the Championship and the Premier League was the specific aim of the current regime when they set their "top 26" agenda. The Mcnally years clearly gave us some short tern success but didn't do any establishing - otherwise we wouldn't have needed to change that model at all.

Apart from the John Bond and Mike Walker years (both of which last only 3 or 4 seasons at most) at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side. Yet apparently that is the least we are supposed to achieve now. Along with the other 40 or so clubs trying to achieve that.

We continue to punch well above our weight.

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2 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

Progressed compared to when they arrived, which is what this thread is about - supposedly it has all "gone wrong". Except it hasn't.

Apart from short periods when we spent 8 or 9 continuous seasons in both the top flight and the second division, Norwich City has always been a yo yo team. Establishing the club in that space between the Championship and the Premier League was the specific aim of the current regime when they set their "top 26" agenda. The Mcnally years clearly gave us some short tern success but didn't do any establishing - otherwise we wouldn't have needed to change that model at all.

Apart from the John Bond and Mike Walker years (both of which last only 3 or 4 seasons at most) at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side. Yet apparently that is the least we are supposed to achieve now. Along with the other 40 or so clubs trying to achieve that.

We continue to punch well above our weight.

Between '73 and '95, we were only out of the top flight for 3 seasons, including a golden period between '87 and '94. So to say that 'at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side' is factually incorrect. Where have you been? 

 

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19 hours ago, komakino said:

Because our aspirations have gone down, quite dramatically with part of our fan base. If Chase would have said 'Top 26', he would have been lynched and thrown in the Wensum with weights around his neck. But he did actually want to be in the EPL and when we weren't, the fans correctly turned and didn't look for excuses. 

 

Hey Komo, was it you that I had a bet with,  for the end of this season? £1 a place  above  26th.? Whoever it was didn't cash out for a tenner  at the end of last season. So whoever  I did take the bet with is at least  sick squid out of pocket , maybe more if we cam climb a place or 5.

Edited by wcorkcanary

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37 minutes ago, komakino said:

Between '73 and '95, we were only out of the top flight for 3 seasons, including a golden period between '87 and '94. So to say that 'at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side' is factually incorrect. Where have you been? 

 

Yes, but there are well-understood  socio-economic reasons for that golden period, and why it was in such contrast to what had gone before in the many decades from 1902 and to a large extent equally in contrast to what has happened since.

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40 minutes ago, komakino said:

Between '73 and '95, we were only out of the top flight for 3 seasons, including a golden period between '87 and '94. So to say that 'at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side' is factually incorrect. Where have you been? 

 

That's what happens when they have to Google their 'knowledge' of the club's history.

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1 hour ago, sgncfc said:

Progressed compared to when they arrived, which is what this thread is about - supposedly it has all "gone wrong". Except it hasn't.

Apart from short periods when we spent 8 or 9 continuous seasons in both the top flight and the second division, Norwich City has always been a yo yo team. Establishing the club in that space between the Championship and the Premier League was the specific aim of the current regime when they set their "top 26" agenda. The Mcnally years clearly gave us some short tern success but didn't do any establishing - otherwise we wouldn't have needed to change that model at all.

Apart from the John Bond and Mike Walker years (both of which last only 3 or 4 seasons at most) at no point in our history have Norwich City been an established top division side. Yet apparently that is the least we are supposed to achieve now. Along with the other 40 or so clubs trying to achieve that.

We continue to punch well above our weight.

I personally don't see this as well above our weight- an extended spell in the Premier League, sure but this yo-yoing is punching at our weight I'd suggest.

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22 hours ago, hogesar said:

Why do the fans 'deserve' better than the top 26 in the country? Especially when we've been top 21 really under Webber. Why do we deserve to be better than that ahead of other clubs?

A stab in the dark perhaps but it might be wasting opportunities once promoted. 

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2 hours ago, king canary said:

I personally don't see this as well above our weight- an extended spell in the Premier League, sure but this yo-yoing is punching at our weight I'd suggest.

Although there's more similar sized clubs therefore regularly and continually punching under than there are above us, which suggests we're actually a bit above our weight.

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I think people are getting a bit lost in the weeds blaming the owners/our ambition, the overall model and how much we can spend. It's pretty simple. We play a style that completely breaks down when you're the inferior team and we don't have enough athleticism in the squad. For me that's the long and short of it. 

I think we should accept that we got it wrong this year and this season accept that we're probably going down and go back to playing attacking football and lose 4-2 every game instead of 3-0. Then after we get promoted next year part ways with Farke amicably. His stock will be sky high and will get a lot of money all at once to have his contract paid off. We then find a coach who plays a style of football that works for an inferior team, someone who plays counter attacking or high pressing football and then try to target faster, fitter, taller more rangy athletic players and make a real go of it season after next. 

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I would suggest that the vast majority of posters on this board and, similarly, supporters at Carrow Road are entirely content with watching another season of PL ‘failure’ for want of a better term.  There appears to be little, if any, disquiet about strategy. I do just wonder, however, if following our model a team might be expected to improve rather than decline between PL ‘adventures’? It seems highly unlikely that we will hit our previous PL points target or even the lowest ever PL points total. 

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28 minutes ago, Highland Canary said:

I would suggest that the vast majority of posters on this board and, similarly, supporters at Carrow Road are entirely content with watching another season of PL ‘failure’ for want of a better term.  There appears to be little, if any, disquiet about strategy. I do just wonder, however, if following our model a team might be expected to improve rather than decline between PL ‘adventures’? It seems highly unlikely that we will hit our previous PL points target or even the lowest ever PL points total. 

I often wondederd about this. Do you and the other critics who go show any discontent at Carrow Road? Or are you just happy clappers who come out of the closet to post on here?

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On 29/09/2021 at 18:14, nutty nigel said:

I think we've added pace to both defence and attack so I think we may yet see a higher line and a more counter attacking style.

There’s a reasonable expectation that some important goals will also come from midfield, Gilmour, Normann and PLM.🤞

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