How good were we last season?

[Canaries north 151]

Someone said today on radio Norfolk that we were not that good last season but Buendia was. On here we have had discussions over and over again about if we could have kept Buendia or not and I'm past the point of caring. I just want to know how people think we would have done last season without him. The statistics show how important he had been for us for a long time. Did we have a great manager in the championship or did he just have by far the best player. How good actually were we as a team or did we have a very average team with that one player. Can one player really elevate a team that much. If the caller was correct then has any player ever before raised a team as much. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Mid table at best. Wasn’t it. Total of 31 combined goals and assists? Turns a lot of 1-0’s to draws and draws into defeats 

[Monty13 2,229]

It was always going to be a tough ask to replace such a talismanic player, I don’t buy though if we’d sold him last summer we’d have struggled to compete at the top, the rest of the squad wasn’t that poor.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

For me, the fascinating thing about last season was that we tried so hard to change from an all out offensive / dominate possession team into a more conservative / game management team - because we were adapting from the lessons learned from relegation.

However ..... this season we don't have Skipp but haven't replaced him AT ALL. 

I fully expected two new defensively obsessed warriors to be hired this summer but instead we got box to boxers and we look as lightweight and naive as 2019.

How has this happened???

Edited September 25, 2021 by Cantiaci Canary

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

I think the question to ask is did we win the league purely because we had the best squad and pretty much any half decent manager would have got us up, which is why he's suddenly failing so drastically. 

Or is it Farkes brilliance masterminded promotion despite not having the best squad, which hasn't really been improved upon this season to such a state most managers would have us bottom right now? 

The first scenario means Farke has to go, the second Webber does. Either way it's a sodding mess. 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

We won a lot of games by the odd goal that either he scored or he set up. I doubt we’d of been much above mid table. We really struggled when he was out of the side injured or suspended 

[Petriix 2,834]

1 minute ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

For me, the fascinating thing about last season was that we tried so hard to change from an all out offensive / dominate possession team into a more conservative / game management team - because we were adapting from the lessons learned from relegation.

However ..... this season we don't have Skipp but haven't replaced him AT ALL. 

I fully expected two new defensively obsessed warriors to be hired this summer but instead we got box to boxers and we look at lightweight and naive as 2019.

How has this happened???

I'm out of reactions but this hits the nail on the head. People witter on about Buendia but Skipp was almost certainly the most vital part of the overall success.

Last season was the most successful in the club's history. I can't figure out why we've abandoned the style and system rather than trying to retain that momentum.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

1 minute ago, Ken Hairy said:

I think the question to ask is did we win the league purely because we had the best squad and pretty much any half decent manager would have got us up, which is why he's suddenly failing so drastically. 

Or is it Farkes brilliance masterminded promotion despite not having the best squad, which hasn't really been improved upon this season to such a state most managers would have us bottom right now? 

The first scenario means Farke has to go, the second Webber does. Either way it's a sodding mess. 

I think a bit of both ...

Our squad was head and shoulders better than everyone outside Bournemouth, Watford and Brentford but crucially our STYLE (Farkeball)  although moderated to be more conservative, worked a treat.

The problem is ..... Farkeball doesn't work in the Prem without ManC level players and we don't have Skipp (or an equivalent) to be as effectively conservative!

[Ken Hairy 3,760]

1 minute ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

I think a bit of both ...

Our squad was head and shoulders better than everyone outside Bournemouth, Watford and Brentford but crucially our STYLE (Farkeball)  although moderated to be more conservative, worked a treat.

The problem is ..... Farkeball doesn't work in the Prem without ManC level players and we don't have Skipp (or an equivalent) to be as effectively conservative!

Out of reactions, but agreed 👍

[robertociNCFC 98]

We were very effective but the same problems (which I believe I brought up on here at the time) were that we struggled against similar level opposition namely Bournemouth and Watford were still glaring flaws that needed addressing.

Unfortunately it looks like it's still a VERY glaring problem... 

[non-scoring strikers 113]

1 hour ago, Canaries north said:

Someone said today on radio Norfolk that we were not that good last season but Buendia was. On here we have had discussions over and over again about if we could have kept Buendia or not and I'm past the point of caring. I just want to know how people think we would have done last season without him. The statistics show how important he had been for us for a long time. Did we have a great manager in the championship or did he just have by far the best player. How good actually were we as a team or did we have a very average team with that one player. Can one player really elevate a team that much. If the caller was correct then has any player ever before raised a team as much. 

You do realise that last season we were in a lesser league, right? 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

It was absolutely staggeringly obvious to anyone with a brain that we needed to replace Skipp with a physical holding midfielder. Given that Normann isn’t even that sort of player (although he looks a good player) it absolutely beggars belief that we did not address this.

In my opinion both Farke and Webber have f**ked up hugely and pretty much everything so far this season. 

[Canaries north 151]

Strangely yes I do realise that. The question was nothing to do with this season and all to do with last season. 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Skipp and Emi together transformed an average champ side into a title winning team. We haven’t replaced either - hence problems both ends of the pitch 

[The Bunny 305]

53 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Skipp and Emi together transformed an average champ side into a title winning team. We haven’t replaced either - hence problems both ends of the pitch 

Exactly. And I suspect both players made Farke look better than he is. It wasn't a secret either, you only had to look at the results when Emi was out of the team. 

Unfortunately the board totally failed to comprehend the value of these players, which is why we are where we are now. Obviously Skipp was on loan, but no real attempt was made to replace him with a CDM of similar attributes (Normann has some good qualities, but he's not a Skipp replacement).

[yellow_belly 226]

Put it this way…. Norwich rarely won when Buendia was not playing. Farke managed both the ‘Buendia Team’ and the ‘non Buendia team’ . Just saying.

 

 

(a bit like when we had Grant Holt v when we sold Grant Holt. Promoted, Promoted, mid table PL, mid table PL versus relegated from PL….)

Edited September 26, 2021 by yellow_belly

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

9 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It was absolutely staggeringly obvious to anyone with a brain that we needed to replace Skipp with a physical holding midfielder. Given that Normann isn’t even that sort of player (although he looks a good player) it absolutely beggars belief that we did not address this.

I agree, Normann looks good but at best coming forwards and feeding the ball to the attack, when he’s been asked to cover defensively he often just dangles a leg or gets beat relatively easily, he’ll be a good addition but he won’t stop us leaking ****ty goals. A midfield two of Normann and Skipp would’ve been excellent. 

[Aggy 752]

9 hours ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

For me, the fascinating thing about last season was that we tried so hard to change from an all out offensive / dominate possession team into a more conservative / game management team - because we were adapting from the lessons learned from relegation.

However ..... this season we don't have Skipp but haven't replaced him AT ALL. 

I fully expected two new defensively obsessed warriors to be hired this summer but instead we got box to boxers and we look as lightweight and naive as 2019.

How has this happened???

Would agree. I think this season we look a bit unsure of what we’re trying to do. I heard one pundit yesterday saying (paraphrased) there doesn’t seem to be much of a plan, it’s all just off the cuff and it’s hard to disagree really. That works when your squad has some of the best players in the division, but not when you get promoted.

We haven’t got those defensive midfield warriors you mention, and we can’t find the right balance in a midfield three. The 532 didn’t really seem to help much either, although that will take work to perfect.

There has to come a point (pretty soon you’d think) where we just think screw it, go back to 4231, focus on good attacking football, accept we’ll concede goals but at least give it a go. We’re conceding now anyway so may as well go down with a bang.