Who Is To Blame For Our Poor Start? (Poll)

[ged in the onion bag 854]

Time for all to get behind the team, these absolute garbage threads are doing absolutely no one any good except the binners!     
 

In the words of Chris Sutton, ‘yer better than that’

Where better than this!   

[Mello Yello 2,279]

Lacking ability, current skill set, fitness, strength, confidence and team cohesion.....

[Herman 9,712]

It's the boogie for frigs sake. 

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

Combination of all 3 🤷‍♂️

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, First Wazzock said:

this is 30 seconds of my life I'm not going to get back

Might have done you a favour.

[city4eva 207]

 Having one of the poorest owners in all 4 leagues

[Google Bot 3,256]

1 hour ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

So can we can really blame the pre-season / COVID for the game against Watford? 

I really don't know at this point, that's why I'm 50% on it really, and unable to vote whole heartedly either way.

Normann and Kabak will be our "strengthening up" that we're desperate for, and they've only been with us for a week vs Watford.  Technically that's Webber taking it to the wire, I guess.  Even now it's only 2 weeks that they've been active in training with us, but certainly it's much better than a tired week after internationals.

Therefore if the theory is right we should see an improvement this weekend.

My question is whether he can adjust to being a manager capable of a relegation battle without holding the cream of the players as he did in championship... Jury very much out on that one, but sadly that's the challenge he faces.  To be tight as a ducks **** and to nick a goal here and there.

Think he's going to come up short personally, it's horses for courses and we've got a flat runner when we need a steeplechaser, or whatever they're called! 😞

[chicken 2,604]

2 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I really don't know at this point, that's why I'm 50% on it really, and unable to vote whole heartedly either way.

Normann and Kabak will be our "strengthening up" that we're desperate for, and they've only been with us for a week vs Watford.  Technically that's Webber taking it to the wire, I guess.  Even now it's only 2 weeks that they've been active in training with us, but certainly it's much better than a tired week after internationals.

Therefore if the theory is right we should see an improvement this weekend.

My question is whether he can adjust to being a manager capable of a relegation battle without holding the cream of the players as he did in championship... Jury very much out on that one, but sadly that's the challenge he faces.  To be tight as a ducks **** and to nick a goal here and there.

Think he's going to come up short personally, it's horses for courses and we've got a flat runner when we need a steeplechaser, or whatever they're called! 😞

Indeed - and whether we have brought in players that can form together to be that type of team. It could be we have, but Farke is unable to organise and get that out of them, or that they just don't gel quickly enough. So many permutations at this point but I don't see how change can't be called upon if things don't start to improve and soon.

One win won't be enough either. It needs to be more of a convincing performance that we see more of the following week and so on. 

[Google Bot 3,256]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

I've yet to see an argument that spending the same money but on fewer players would make sense in terms of what we needed to do to the squad.

Well, it's the short-term plan isn't it. 

Where you bring in players already established in British football and pay the higher wages.  i.e. like Ajer/Cahill, Billing, Ings/Armstrong etc.  And hope that their edge pushes the average of the starting 11 and pray you don't struggle with injuries.

If you've got a goalscorer in this division you will sneak home points, there's no doubt about that.  We're at the point where the whole team needs to come together and gel in unison to deliver results home.

I prefer the longterm plan, personally, but then i'm not overly saddened if we go down - I'd be more sad if Farke/Webber were to leave and we undo all the work previously.... Even though i'm starting to realise that it may be the better option as this ideal doesn't seem possible.

Too twisted on it all man, need the match to happen! 🙂

Edited September 24, 2021 by Google Bot

[Robornio 106]

A combination of all three, plus a board that doesn’t really suit the modern competitive sports market. Ambition and success stem from the top down. It’s the harsh reality of life. 

I’ve not commented on the manager as of yet, but to say he has no effect over the results is naive and rather ignorant. If you don’t have the players to play a certain way, change it to give yourself the best possible chance in achieving a positive result. I can’t imagine a general in battle saying “if only I had better troops, we’d have won the battle”. You adjust your tactics to compete with the enemy. Brentford and Watford seem to be doing ok? 

Anyhow, happy Friday all. Time for a pint. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by Robornio

[A Load of Squit 5,125]

Earlier in the week (according to a couple of posters) it was 'someone' from the Trust and the fans of the year. 😀

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

Me . I got complacent and listened to numpties who promised me everything would be alright . 
I should never have listened . 
And I should never have changed my socks from last year . 

[Hardhouse44 261]

3 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

You missed out the actual answer

Which is yawning chasm in class between the Premier League and the Championship.

Same chasm for Watford and Brentford

[Midlands Yellow 3,929]

3 minutes ago, Hardhouse44 said:

Same chasm for Watford and Brentford

Both going down next season, see Sheffield Utd. Forget Palace, Southampton, Burnley, Newcastle and Brighton though please. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

3 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Both going down next season, see Sheffield Utd. Forget Palace, Southampton, Burnley, Newcastle and Brighton though please. 

And while you're at it forget Fulham, West Brom, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough and Swansea. 🙂 

[Van wink 2,994]

Kermit

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

13 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

And while you're at it forget Fulham, West Brom, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough and Swansea. 🙂 

Oh and Huddersfield too - I'd forgotten about them. 🤣

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

12 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

And while you're at it forget Fulham, West Brom, Cardiff, Bournemouth, Middlesbrough and Swansea. 🙂 

You appear to have ignored my questions so I’ll try again.

The question of the OP was to ask the source of our ‘poor start’. It’s been a start which already sees us way behind the two sides we finished comfortably ahead of last season.   

So I’m not sure of the relevance of your individual comparisons, at all.

How does this difference in quality between the leagues explain our underachievement compared to our promotion rivals, for this ‘poor start’ and also from 2 years ago?

Especially when you consider how successful we’ve been in the champs, there are clearly more factors at play here, are there not?

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,017]

I blame it on the Boogie.........

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

28 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

You appear to have ignored my questions so I’ll try again.

The question of the OP was to ask the source of our ‘poor start’. It’s been a start which already sees us way behind the two sides we finished comfortably ahead of last season.   

So I’m not sure of the relevance of your individual comparisons, at all.

How does this difference in quality between the leagues explain our underachievement compared to our promotion rivals, for this ‘poor start’ and also from 2 years ago?

Especially when you consider how successful we’ve been in the champs, there are clearly more factors at play here, are there not?

And considering we went up as Champions both times.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

38 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

You appear to have ignored my questions so I’ll try again.

The question of the OP was to ask the source of our ‘poor start’. It’s been a start which already sees us way behind the two sides we finished comfortably ahead of last season.   

So I’m not sure of the relevance of your individual comparisons, at all.

How does this difference in quality between the leagues explain our underachievement compared to our promotion rivals, for this ‘poor start’ and also from 2 years ago?

Especially when you consider how successful we’ve been in the champs, there are clearly more factors at play here, are there not?

I wasn't replying to you Hank - I was replying to the point that Midland made. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

8 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I wasn't replying to you Hank - I was replying to the point that Midland made. 

Yes but I’ve still asked you three separate times and you’ve ignored each post, including not answering anything in this last reply despite the acknowledgement. You can just say if you agree with me you know…. 😆

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

14 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

And considering we went up as Champions both times.

Yep, would be an understandable view if we’d finished 6th and scraped through the play offs both times, but both times we won the title relatively comfortably and then were totally surpassed by our peers (so far for this season at least). 

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

34 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes but I’ve still asked you three separate times and you’ve ignored each post, including not answering anything in this last reply despite the acknowledgement. You can just say if you agree with me you know…. 😆

Too busy playing Chess Hank. 😉 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

Actually - didn't see your two posts on the first page of the thread.

Briefly - Season 19-20 we spent approximately 2.5pence strengthening our team and then had a horrendous injury crisis. Villa spent about 14 trillion on their team and only stayed up because of a scandalous failure of goal line technology. Sheff Utd had a very settled team from their progress through the divisions (quite like us under Lambert) and then rode the crest of a wave and zero injuries all season - before crashing and burning the following season.

Still incredibly early days yet this season, but obviously some very poor defending and individual errors have cost us so far - plus our incredibly difficult start to the season (Watford excepted).

And before some numpty mentions Arsenal - just look at the actual line ups for their game AWAY at Brentford compared to their line up at HOME to us. 

 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

7 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Actually - didn't see your two posts on the first page of the thread.

Briefly - Season 19-20 we spent approximately 2.5pence strengthening our team and then had a horrendous injury crisis. Villa spent about 14 trillion on their team and only stayed up because of a scandalous failure of goal line technology. Sheff Utd had a very settled team from their progress through the divisions (quite like us under Lambert) and then rode the crest of a wave and zero injuries all season - before crashing and burning the following season.

Still incredibly early days yet this season, but obviously some very poor defending and individual errors have cost us so far - plus our incredibly difficult start to the season (Watford excepted).

And before some numpty mentions Arsenal - just look at the actual line ups for their game AWAY at Brentford compared to their line up at HOME to us. 

 

The injury crisis early on in the season last time is a valid observation, but the awkward reality is that we picked up more points during that injury crisis than we did the final third of the season. We had no injury crisis when losing 10 in a row, getting those injured players back did not improve us. I think a lot were relying on that happening, an improved second half of the season, it never happened.

Anyway, I'm going to trademark the phrase "Happy Yo-Yo'ers" to describe those that have the stomach for another relegation and attempt to return, I'm not sure I feel confident enough of an instant return to contemplate that myself. I suppose I have to admire the Happy Yo-Yo'ers who are much more optimistic / less daunted by the prospect of another relegation this season.

[City 101 83]

Farke , decent manager with the best team in the league but up against anybody decent and he cannot come close .Two years ago he was abysmal and this time he is going to take it to a whole new level.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,155]

11 minutes ago, City 101 said:

Farke , decent manager with the best team in the league but up against anybody decent and he cannot come close .Two years ago he was abysmal and this time he is going to take it to a whole new level.

Bit like Guardiola at Man City then. Wins the Premier League with Man City, but can't do jack in the Champions League. 

[If wed kept Howie.. 199]

If you really want to blame someone - then its all of us - none of us became a billionaire and then invested in the club..

we should all take a look at ourselves and tut

[chicken 2,604]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

The injury crisis early on in the season last time is a valid observation, but the awkward reality is that we picked up more points during that injury crisis than we did the final third of the season. We had no injury crisis when losing 10 in a row, getting those injured players back did not improve us. I think a lot were relying on that happening, an improved second half of the season, it never happened.

Anyway, I'm going to trademark the phrase "Happy Yo-Yo'ers" to describe those that have the stomach for another relegation and attempt to return, I'm not sure I feel confident enough of an instant return to contemplate that myself. I suppose I have to admire the Happy Yo-Yo'ers who are much more optimistic / less daunted by the prospect of another relegation this season.

Not precisely true.

The first game was a 1-0 loss to Shef Utd and the following line up was:
Krul, Aarons, Godfrey, Hanley, Lewis, Cantwell, Buendia, McLean, Duda, Tettey and Pukki.

Pukki was playing on injured with a broken toe. Things look great. Then Hanley get's injured as does Zimmermann. Klose who hasn't played all season with injury is thrown back in as walking wounded to CB for the next game when we deploy a 4-4-2 with Drmic to give support to Pukki.

Pukki struggles and is dropped to the bench for the following game because he is still struggling with the injury. Drmic starts alone. Klose continues, though looks more and more like an unfinished Frankenstein's monster, and is clearly not match fit.

In the following game, Vs Arsenal. Klose is injured and we play with Tettey as the CB alongside Godfrey. Pukki starts.

Klose and Drmic return Vs Brighton and we lose 1-0. 

Same again for Watford but with Pukki in again and we lose 2-1. Still no other defenders available for selection.

It stays this way with Pukki and Drmic alternating starts almost, and with Klose until the penultimate game Vs Burnley when Zimmermann returns to make the bench. A game famous for us being in it until 35mins when Buendia got sent off and then shortly after half time Drmic joined him.

The last game Zimmermann starts and the bench is full of youngsters including Famewo, Adshead, Mair, Martin and Thomas.

It's very similar to the first ten games of the season in many ways. Hanley and Godfrey were the CB pairing for the first three games of the season. Tettey was the only cover from the bench for the first two games, then Klose came back for the 3rd before going again for the 4th. Zimmermann started the 4th game with Hanley injured and having come straight back in from injury himself. It was ill fated and he'd have to come off the pitch injured to be replaced by Amadou.

Amadou partnered Godfrey for the win Vs Man City and then stayed for the remaining 5 games of the opening 10. Of those 5, Hanley returned to the bench for the first two before being injured again. Interestingly though, the midfield was quite stable, often included Stiepermann, Buendia and Cantwell with changes mostly occurring to the two deeper roles.

The record for the opening 10 games reads: LWLLWLLLDL for a total of 7points. 1/3rd of our points hall for the season.

Compare that to the last ten games and it's hard to say which struggled with injuries more. Add to that Amadou had gone and so you had one less defensive body in the squad to start off with. They're pretty similar until you look at the striking department and realise that Pukki was struggling along with an injury and fatigue after playing so many games and was being rotated in and out.