The morning after the night before

[BigFish 1,986]

1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Sacking Farke still leaves a board and owners that struggle to cope in the top flight. 

Pretty true that sacking the manager doesn't change the fundamentals.

[king canary 7,578]

21 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Pretty true that sacking the manager doesn't change the fundamentals.

I don't know if I'm deluded but I do feel that the squad we have should be good enough to make a decent fist of staying up. So if that is what Webber/the board believe then at some point the question becomes do we need someone else who can get more out of them.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

5 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

 

The obsession with 'playing out from the back' even when two or three opponents are swarming around you like flies is madness personified yet both the players and Farke seem unwilling to do anything different. Yes - 'playing it long' (not all the time I might add) may result in losing possession but far better to give the ball away 50 yards from your own goal (when you have pretty much everyone behind the ball anyway) than 15 yards. I remember a simple phrase from one Sam Allardyce (that 'dinosaur' chap) who said........'the best way to defend is to keep the ball as far away from your own goal as possible'.  Perhaps someone should point this out to Herr Farke?

 

 

Copy and paste of a post i made on Facebook.

Can somebody explain why when taking a goal kick on the edge of the 6 yard box our 2 central defenders stand behind the keeper on the goal line either side of the posts and the ball is always passed back to either one of them ? We then engage in the sideways shuffle between the 3 of them which nearly everytime results in pressure from our opponents and a hasty pass is then forthcoming giving the ball away more often than not in the middle of our half. We simply are not good enough to play that stupid tip tap football at this level.

[BigFish 1,986]

Just now, king canary said:

I don't know if I'm deluded but I do feel that the squad we have should be good enough to make a decent fist of staying up. So if that is what Webber/the board believe then at some point the question becomes do we need someone else who can get more out of them.

I hope you are right rather than deluded, but some players have been making some fundamental individual errors. Difficult to know what Farke can do about that. The other issue is that we seem to have gathered players to play Farkeball, are they really suited to different approaches?

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Sad to say it but the scent of death, that eventually smoked off the shoulders of Hughton and Worthy, is beginning to snake around Farke's ankles.

I think this is the beginning of the end for him and his staff, I really do.

The players look shot of confidence and belief.

He's already rejigging formations and line ups.

Pointing the finger at critics in the media, fanbase and a player has already been ticked off.

The only hope I have is that a better gelled team will have enough to shift the rudder but I'm starting to concede that whilst Farke has mastered putting tier 2 opponents to bed by dominating possession he hasn't adapted enough to give us a chance against tier 1 sides who are stronger, faster, fitter, taller and cleverer.

He's also been crippled by us not replacing the stars of last season with an attacking midfielder capable of feeding our only goalscorer and a DM of any sort ... Normann isn't a pure DM (despite the script that the club got him to regurgitate when he arrived!).

It'll be fascinating to see how much rope Webber gives him.

No points after 10 played?

No wins by November?

Relegation confirmed?

Not this season however bleak it gets?

Edited September 22, 2021 by Cantiaci Canary

[Grando 260]

7 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

3/4 points before Brighton would be smashing. Nick a point on Saturday then rip Burnley a new one perhaps. 

Rip Burnley a new one. 😂 Like that’s going to happen!

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

Just now, Grando said:

Rip Burnley a new one. 😂 Like that’s going to happen!

Get Idah to rough them up then let Pukki pounce.

[Essjayess 307]

7 hours ago, komakino said:

Didn't anyone expect anything else last night? 

It simply is not happening and I can only see it getting worse. 

The project has failed, so either you change things or accept failure. 

I wonder what the board will do....?

Feeling great, honestly..last night was at most underwhelming, the first 5  PL games  have been brutal..but thats on the pitch yea?..In the Championship for years trying to outdo Ipswich...gone into administration....12 points deducted...i call that a failed project. Why are'nt we Derby?..coz our Delia and Board brung in SW and DF 4 years ago and our project has been a success. Im hoping the Board  will continue to keep SW and DF here as long as humanly possible.

 

[smooth 114]

It was bad last night, this morning I began to think what does he do here with a formation where many looked out of sorts.

It was a test, it seemed to look quite unprepared as players reactions when goals went in were more exaggerated than I thought. Not just downhearted from a goal going in or frustration but a look of we knew this was coming as we aren't prepared. Now I may well be very wrong but it seemed like the system and personnel had not been tried out that much. Damn a no preseason.

So where does he go from here, stick to the formation with some senior players coming in or revert back to the formation he has started this season.

For me 4 players come back in, krul, kabak, normann and Sargent.

Now this formation and personnel is not the type I want to see, but I feel out of necessity we need to be so rigid at the back. I don't feel we have 2 disciplined wide men to play to banks of four when we are out of possession. So I would have 3 centre halves, Hanley needs to perform as Gibson could easily be there. Then two wing backs but again they need to be reserved in how far they go forward with a more solid and dynamic midfield who can rough it out.

I am happy with a little more long ball to 2 strikers who will chase, hustle and hassle defenders.

I think it is our best defensive shape and allows us to be rigid and have experience down the core of our team to try and grind out a performance/ point (s).

I would rather more exciting players, cantwell, tzolis etc but we need to be solid right now and maybe this group is.

I do think we need to look at the coaching and planning for games, as this was shown to be far too short for Liverpool. To be fair some goals have come from this but individual errors have too, so now experience is needed in some areas. We also need to see that and clearly communication to be back to where it should be. I think it was lacking last night as they seem unprepared, that could be because the Liverpool team was full of changes too, but I expect the volume to be up.

Krul

Aarons, Omobamidele, Hanley, Kabak, Williams or Dimi

PLM, Normann, McLean

Sargent, Pukki

I don't expect it but I think if Farke wants us to be solid and in games more thus gives us a more reserved approach with tenacity, rough and ready play from physical and smart players in the midfield 3 and front pairing to give a team a much easier 3 points than they are getting. This could work by frustrating them and challenging them in all areas of the park with a bit more physicality.

We will see but worrying times

[komakino 272]

3 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

Feeling great, honestly..last night was at most underwhelming, the first 5  PL games  have been brutal..but thats on the pitch yea?..In the Championship for years trying to outdo Ipswich...gone into administration....12 points deducted...i call that a failed project. Why are'nt we Derby?..coz our Delia and Board brung in SW and DF 4 years ago and our project has been a success. Im hoping the Board  will continue to keep SW and DF here as long as humanly possible.

 

The project will only be a success if we stay in the EPL. That isn't happening. 

The club is comprised by the majority shareholders lack of investing and attracting investment. Therefore we heavily rely on getting promoted after we get relegated, but that realistically is unlikely to continue and then the real fun starts.  

I don't give a damn about Ipswich or Derby, but I don't use their failings as an excuse for ours. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

7 hours ago, komakino said:

Didn't anyone expect anything else last night? 

It simply is not happening and I can only see it getting worse. 

The project has failed, so either you change things or accept failure. 

I wonder what the board will do....?

If two Championship titles in 3 years constitutes failure in your eyes then I think you're watching the wrong sport (although the Premier League only has a very tangential relationship with sport) and definitely the wrong team.

It's just an unfortunate fact of life that after the enjoyment and entertainment of winning the Championship comes the penance of enduring a year, sometimes two, of horrible Premeiership football - such a shame that the Super League proposal fell apart so quickly and we missed the chance to kick the 'big six' out of the Premier League. Might have sparked other long overdue reforms and the chance to turn it back into something resembling an interesting and entertaining football league.

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Creative Midfielder

[komakino 272]

1 minute ago, Creative Midfielder said:

If two Championship titles in 3 years constitutes failure in your eyes then I think you're watching the wrong sport (although the Premier League only has a very tangential relationship with sport) and definitely the wrong team.

It's just an unfortunate fact of life that after the enjoyment and entertainment of winning the Championship comes the penance of enduring a year, sometimes two, of horrible Premeiership football - such a shame that the Super League proposal fell apart so quickly and we missed the chance to kick the 'big six' out of the Premier League. Might have sparked other long overdue reforms and the chance to turn it back into something resembling an interesting and entertaining football league.

 

It is failure, because we cannot sustain EPL football. 

The EPL has a much higher standard of football than The Championship, so I'm not quite sure where you are going with 'reforms' and 'entertaining' etc. It's great when you win and bad when you lose, which is the same as any other league, expect the football is much much better. Shame we can't make a go of it. 

[king canary 7,578]

37 minutes ago, BigFish said:

I hope you are right rather than deluded, but some players have been making some fundamental individual errors. Difficult to know what Farke can do about that. The other issue is that we seem to have gathered players to play Farkeball, are they really suited to different approaches?

I'm generally of the opinion that if you see repeated individual errors from experienced pros then it largely comes down to coaching and drilling. 

[Uncle Fred 526]

Managers except Sir Alex have a limited lifecycle, we are seeing the end of the Farke era, it’s just a case of when Webber pulls the trigger not if 

[Monty13 2,229]

Still holding out hope Farke can turn this around,  on paper it’s easy, get 3 points off either Everton or Burnley. Even 2 points isn’t a disaster. But turn up to face Brighten with 1 or, dare I say it, 0 on the board and the pressure’s going to be so immense to get the win.

I look at this squad and it’s easily enough to at least compete at this level, so why isn’t it? Every single one of these players has looked PL quality in moments, just needs something to click.

But the longer it takes to get a result, to show a battling performance that walks away with something, the more the pressure grows. I honestly just question whether in the current mood the manager and players can stand up to it and get a result, there’s been no signs so far.

Get a win against Everton, or even a battling draw though and suddenly things can change. I’m hopeful, but feels like a miracle right now on evidence so far.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

I think there's a very strong "Don't Panic" mindset that Farke drills into his players.  So perhaps fringe players feel that above all else they need to show composure when being called upon?  

Don't know. It is an odd one really.  I'd imagine for any player coming in to this team right now there's a very real fear of being caught out of position.

 

I can just think of abject cup performances before, where we've given the second string a run (maybe Luton, maybe Preston) and wondered why the hell the performance was so flat when these players should be doing all they can to impress.

Lets not forget (Krul's heroics at Tottenham aside) that traditionally we're a terrible cup side

[king canary 7,578]

31 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Still holding out hope Farke can turn this around,  on paper it’s easy, get 3 points off either Everton or Burnley. Even 2 points isn’t a disaster. But turn up to face Brighten with 1 or, dare I say it, 0 on the board and the pressure’s going to be so immense to get the win.

I look at this squad and it’s easily enough to at least compete at this level, so why isn’t it? Every single one of these players has looked PL quality in moments, just needs something to click.

I know its not this simple but he needs to start with picking a formation, picking a settled defence and giving them proper cover. Hanley has used up his chances, we need to look elsewhere. 

For me thats Aarons, Kabak Gibson and Giannoulis, shielded by Norman and one other. No more bollocking around with lightweights like Rupp, Gilmour or PLM as the last line of protection for the back 4.

Then build an attack from there- right now I think that Pukki and Sargent are the first names on the sheet. We know Pukki can score and Sargent adds physicality and work rate. Then two more out of Cantwell, Rashica, Dowell and Tzolis depending on what you're looking for. I'd personally go for Tzolis and Cantwell as I think their movement will help Pukki. 

To me that first xi isn't anything incredible but it should be good enough to compete. 

[FCC 76]

Just my opinion, but I’m surprised how quickly the team has lost the fans.

I wonder if not being at games last season, and the player turnover has broken the unity we once had.  The new players haven’t fought to get us up, they don’t know each other, and some just want to play in the Premier League.  We have no bond with them compared with Alex, Mario, or Onel.

I’m not seeing better players than we released or sold.  I don’t think the current players have the skill or strength to stay up, Weber has invested poorly, Daniel looks lost and fed up, and the support has gone silent.  I don’t think many of the Board, Coaches, Players or fans think we can compete at the moment. 

Unless something can spark a reunification to bring us all the elements together the future is grim. As fans we can bring back the noise, but we need someone in yellow to show us something to get behind.

[king canary 7,578]

3 hours ago, FCC said:

Just my opinion, but I’m surprised how quickly the team has lost the fans.

I wonder if not being at games last season, and the player turnover has broken the unity we once had.  The new players haven’t fought to get us up, they don’t know each other, and some just want to play in the Premier League.  We have no bond with them compared with Alex, Mario, or Onel.

I’m not seeing better players than we released or sold.  I don’t think the current players have the skill or strength to stay up, Weber has invested poorly, Daniel looks lost and fed up, and the support has gone silent.  I don’t think many of the Board, Coaches, Players or fans think we can compete at the moment. 

Unless something can spark a reunification to bring us all the elements together the future is grim. As fans we can bring back the noise, but we need someone in yellow to show us something to get behind.

I think also there is an element of being told 'this time woll be different.' Two years ago all the talk was of free hits, little miracles and then not having a gun. The whole idea is supposed to be 'go down but bounce back stronger.' As fans we basically wrote off an entire season on this basis. So to see us come back up and look worse than we did two years ago raises some real questions, not least of which 'whats the point?' 

I agree that I'm surprised fans have turned so early but that Watford game felt so huge. Having had Farke basically blast the fans beforehand, to be playing at home to a team we've got to be aiming to beat if we're going to even compete, let alone survive and to look that ****e has clearly pissed people off. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

11 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

I had my first nut of the season last night when the 3rd goal went in, very satisfying. I only get off when we lose.

😇😉👍

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

5 hours ago, king canary said:

I don't know if I'm deluded but I do feel that the squad we have should be good enough to make a decent fist of staying up. So if that is what Webber/the board believe then at some point the question becomes do we need someone else who can get more out of them.

Exactly this 👍

[Clever Farke 64]

5 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Get Idah to rough them up then let Pukki pounce.

Idah couldn’t rough up a pillow 

Edited September 22, 2021 by Clever Farke

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

5 hours ago, BigFish said:

I hope you are right rather than deluded, but some players have been making some fundamental individual errors. Difficult to know what Farke can do about that. The other issue is that we seem to have gathered players to play Farkeball, are they really suited to different approaches?

But is it not the insistence on playing out from the back...... All the time.... Something they are clearly not comfortable nor good enough to do at this level, that is causing the many stupid mistakes? That is on Farke. We get away with it with lesser opposition hence why we storm the Championship, but Farkes never going to be successful anywhere in the top flight playing like that unless by some miracle he ends up as Peps replacement. 

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

On 22/09/2021 at 17:34, komakino said:

It is failure, because we cannot sustain EPL football. 

The EPL has a much higher standard of football than The Championship, so I'm not quite sure where you are going with 'reforms' and 'entertaining' etc. It's great when you win and bad when you lose, which is the same as any other league, expect the football is much much better. Shame we can't make a go of it. 

Its pretty simple really, you believe that the EPL has a much higher standard of football and I don't - the reasons for that I suspect is that we have different 'standards' or at least different expectations of what we want to get out of a watching a game of football.

And the Premier League is most definitely not 'the same as any other league' - I'm not going to rehearse the many unattractive features of the EPL as I (and others) have said it all many times before but seemingly the marketing hype of Sky and the EPL is much more persuasive with some.

So let me just say that the EPL is one of the most predictable football leagues in the world and leave it at that. If you enjoy watching it then clearly I'm not going convince you otherwise but IMO watching it comes in second to watching the proverbial paint dry.......

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

Personally I find the Championship equally as dull and predictable, then each to their own.

[Big Vince 318]

On 22/09/2021 at 17:22, Essjayess said:

Feeling great, honestly..last night was at most underwhelming, the first 5  PL games  have been brutal..but thats on the pitch yea?..In the Championship for years trying to outdo Ipswich...gone into administration....12 points deducted...i call that a failed project. Why are'nt we Derby?..coz our Delia and Board brung in SW and DF 4 years ago and our project has been a success. Im hoping the Board  will continue to keep SW and DF here as long as humanly possible.

 

If they keep the Webber-Farke duo they will go straight to the bottom of the Championship next season and then back to L1. Their project is dead in the water.

[nutty nigel 7,509]

2 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Personally I find the Championship equally as dull and predictable, then each to their own.

I think League One and League Two are equally as dull and predictable too.