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Yellowhammer

Why can’t we do this

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Just now, horsefly said:

A shame it can't cure stupidity! Facts are clearly not your thing as you have demonstrated on innumerable ocassions.

Yeah.....so is the stupid way you spell occasions....

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What is that supposed to mean? Look we have signed some very promising youngsters but looking to future sales rather than present needs has hamstrung us- if you are in denial about that you are clearly not watching any of the matches played this far. We are so behind the rest of the division that it is embarrassing. Again. Asking for proof of particulars is just distracting from what is the real issue and obvious to all but the most clapworthy

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8 minutes ago, horsefly said:

A shame it can't cure stupidity! Facts are clearly not your thing as you have demonstrated on innumerable ocassions.

Think you may have missed the point being made in your eagerness to disagree. We could have spent £1billion on players, the point being made was that our model doesn’t allow for the wage structure to buy players that are known PL performers, ie 15-20m and 60k wages, the type of players the teams in and around us will have in their team. Come back with a league table showing budget and disprove what has been said on here and by the club

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2 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I've never met Tom Smith, but I know people that have. I wouldn't necessarily assume that he has the same views about ownership of our club as Delia and Michael. 

What freedom to act he will have may be constrained by the terms of the trust holding the majority share holding

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Our style of play means that generally as long as we're in form we'll beat teams worse or on par with us and lose to teams better than us. We're one of the worst if not the worst team in this division so if we want to have a hope of staying in this league we need to change our style to either a fast counter attacking or direct high pressing style and drop all of our lightweight powderpuff players like Gilmour and Rupp.

If we don't change our way of playing and if we keep picking players who are not physically up to it we won't even get to 20 points this year

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5 hours ago, horsefly said:

 

 

 

 

I suppose it's just a little too much to expect you to interrupt your pleasure at slagging the club off and doing as Badger requested by providing the evidence for your claims. So let me reproduce the facts instead:

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/einnahmenausgaben/wettbewerb/GB1

 
# club Expenditure Arrivals Income Departures Balance
1 Arsenal FC Arsenal FC £149.04m 19 £27.81m 13 £-121.23m
2 Manchester United Manchester United £126.00m 13 £27.09m 8 £-98.91m
3 Manchester City Manchester City £114.75m 27 £34.92m 15 £-79.83m
4 Chelsea FC Chelsea FC £108.00m 25 £110.12m 22 £2.12m
5 Aston Villa Aston Villa £89.84m 13 £114.30m 10 £24.46m
6 West Ham United West Ham United £67.05m 10 £2.70m 8 £-64.35m
7 Crystal Palace Crystal Palace £66.09m 10 - 13 £-66.09m
8 Leicester City Leicester City £60.84m 10 £3.60m 8 £-57.24m
9 Tottenham Hotspur Tottenham Hotspur £60.21m 10 £29.43m 15 £-30.78m
10 Norwich City Norwich City £59.54m 28 £34.56m 26 £-24.98m
11 Leeds United Leeds United £53.01m 10 - 13 £-53.01m
12 Brighton & Hove Albion Brighton & Hove Albion £51.30m 24 £57.29m 19 £5.99m
13 Southampton FC Southampton FC £38.79m 10 £54.33m 12 £15.54m
14 Liverpool FC Liverpool FC £36.00m 12 £24.75m 10 £-11.25m
15 Brentford FC Brentford FC £34.38m 14 £900Th. 7 £-33.48m
16 Burnley FC Burnley FC £28.71m 9 £8.37m 6 £-20.34m
17 Newcastle United Newcastle United £26.46m 5 - 7 £-26.46m
18 Wolverhampton Wanderers Wolverhampton Wanderers £23.67m 23 £28.35m 16 £4.68m
19 Watford FC Watford FC £16.92m 25 £11.57m 24 £-5.36m
20 Everton FC Everton FC £1.80m 10 £7.20m 11 £5.40m

The Table indicates that we had more player churn both inwards and outwards than any other club. I suspect that is a radical change from 2 years ago. Maybe though a more middle of the road player churn in both years would have served us better?

 

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5 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I've never met Tom Smith, but I know people that have. I wouldn't necessarily assume that he has the same views about ownership of our club as Delia and Michael. 

Well if he didn't he would not be sitting in the boardroom.

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5 hours ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

I've never met Tom Smith, but I know people that have. I wouldn't necessarily assume that he has the same views about ownership of our club as Delia and Michael. 

From what I'm led to believe he's likely to sell it as soon as he comes into possession, not a bad little inheritance. 

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But fans of those clubs don’t get to see their team failing to play out from the back. That’s what’s important.

Winning is boring. Selling our best players for lots of money and playing out from the back is why I follow Norwich.

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In response to the OP I would say ...

1. Money.

It is a HIGHLY competitive league - with the money we invest (we broke all our spending records on players that cost half the price of what most teams spend on individuals) we have to have everything whirring perfectly to stand a chance.

e.g

Lambert's top flight season with us.

Wilder's 1st top flight season with the Blades.

Brentford this season it seems.

Currently we are FAR from a well oiled, intensely drilled team with high confidence that's greater than the sum of its fairly modest parts. We have to be PERFECT!

Honestly, how many of our players would the fans of Palace, Newcastle, Watford, Soton, Brighton, Wolves swap for theirs? One or two??? None??? We need to finish ABOVE THREE of them to survive (and the Bees)!!!

 

2. Style.

Unless you spend proper money (like Villa and Leeds) you cannot play attractive football and survive.

A club like ours needs to be big, strong and resolute or face being blown away by the top teams who pass and move better than us or stamped on and bullied by the rest.

There's a reason Burnley, Palace, Soton, Stoke, Watford etc surprised people by surviving so long. They are / were tough and gritty.

Edited by Cantiaci Canary
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6 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I believe the average today for an established player is upwards of £20 million in transfer and wages far in excess of what we pay. 

I think that this is genuinely part of the problem. The club has done such a good job* of "managing expectations" that people think that we are far poorer and spend far less than we do. The average transfer fee to the Premier League is well below £20 million and our wage budget will certainly be higher than Brentford's and very likely Watford's too. I don't think it will be the case, but if Watford and Brentford stay up and we go down, it won't be for the reasons you say - ie a budget that does not allow for premiership wages and transfer fees - the figures don't support this.

If it happens, the reasons will lie elsewhere.

 

* I'm not actually sure that it is "a good job" at all and suspect that it fuels discontent.

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2 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

From what I'm led to believe he's likely to sell it as soon as he comes into possession, not a bad little inheritance. 

If Neppers Tom did sell and it was to a stinking rich billionaire from the Far East.....I would literally and hysterically howl myself hoarse with laughter...... 

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12 minutes ago, BigGrantsTash said:

But fans of those clubs don’t get to see their team failing to play out from the back. That’s what’s important.

Winning is boring. Selling our best players for lots of money and playing out from the back is why I follow Norwich.

I think we're still suffering from the fallout of the Hughton era. Just because we didn't like his ultra defensive/slow attack/play for set pieces style of football that fans demand that we should play like 2008 Barcelona. Because we didn't like that one extreme doesn't mean we should lurch to the other extreme. 

Norwich fans don't demand pretty football just because we didn't like what Hughton served up, but i don't think that's how the board interpreted our reaction, so now we're paying the price by being too idealistic and naive in how we play. 

There are many happy mediums in between but I don't think the club realizes that. from my experience being in the crowd at CR what we appreciate most is a hard working team who plays attacking football, not pretty, slow possession football. Farke's style of football served us well against inferior opposition when we're in the Championship, but in this league we need to change to a hard working, attacking style that puts the oppositions nose out and allows us to create chances and force mistakes while keeping the pressure off of our defence. 

Edited by Christoph Stiepermann

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27 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The Table indicates that we had more player churn both inwards and outwards than any other club. I suspect that is a radical change from 2 years ago. Maybe though a more middle of the road player churn in both years would have served us better?

Good point. One of the reasons I retain some optimism is that we are still integrating a lot of new players and the hope is that we will be far better when this is done. we are still only 3 points of 17th, so if we improve there's still a chance. We do have to start picking up points soon though.

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10 hours ago, Yellowhammer said:

Brighton,wolves, Leicester,Southampton,and palace, Are just some of the teams that have gone up and established themselves for more than one season in the top league . Why can’t we do that I remember Southampton in division one looking like they were going nowhere and now that are established in the premiership. Is it just down to investment by rich owners ? 

Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday,Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ipsh*t are just some of the clubs who’ve had far less success than us in recent years despite spending large amounts of money. What have we done that they haven’t?

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2 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I think we're still suffering from the fallout of the Hughton era. Just because we didn't like his ultra defensive/slow attack/play for set pieces style of football that fans demand that we should play like 2008 Barcelona. Because we didn't like that one extreme we should lurch to the other extreme. 

Norwich fans don't demand pretty football just because we didn't like what Hughton served up, so now we're paying the price by being too idealistic and naive in how we play. 

There are many happy mediums in between but I don't think the club realizes that. from my experience being in the crowd at CR what we appreciate most is a hard working team who plays attacking football, not pretty, slow possession football. Farke's style of football served us well against inferior opposition when we're in the Championship, but in this league we need to change to a hard working, attacking style that puts the oppositions nose out and allows us to create chances and force mistakes while keeping the pressure off of our defence. 

Nah I want to see Norwich play out from the back and try to outplay the opposition in every instance. Even when it’s suicidal and going to almost certainly lead to us losing. 
 

I just feel such a sense of moral high ground supporting Norwich knowing we play football in ‘the right way’ and have an owner who can’t afford to fund us like the rest of the clubs in this country 

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34 minutes ago, essex canary said:

The Table indicates that we had more player churn both inwards and outwards than any other club. I suspect that is a radical change from 2 years ago. Maybe though a more middle of the road player churn in both years would have served us better?

 

It's about the same-29 out, 28 in two years ago. But the amounts of money involved are vastly different between both years.

image.png.81ca0fb81dd8a73dc447a2a06b81515e.png

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2 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday,Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ipsh*t are just some of the clubs who’ve had far less success than us in recent years despite spending large amounts of money. What have we done that they haven’t?

Ipswich? They’ve barely spent anything in a decade? We’ve also outspent all the clubs you’ve mentioned and will end up in the same league as half of them next year.

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5 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday,Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ipsh*t are just some of the clubs who’ve had far less success than us in recent years despite spending large amounts of money. What have we done that they haven’t?

How many of them have had 4 separate opportunities in the premier league in the last 10 years? 

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1 minute ago, Mr Angry said:

It's about the same-29 out, 28 in two years ago. But the amounts of money involved are vastly different between both years.

image.png.81ca0fb81dd8a73dc447a2a06b81515e.png

Lots of those ins and outs are youth players. Don’t think it would have to much impact on the first team dressing room

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5 minutes ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Nah I want to see Norwich play out from the back and try to outplay the opposition in every instance. Even when it’s suicidal and going to almost certainly lead to us losing. 
 

I just feel such a sense of moral high ground supporting Norwich knowing we play football in ‘the right way’ and have an owner who can’t afford to fund us like the rest of the clubs in this country 

But that's what Norwich fans demand! They boo'ed Hughton's unique style of ultra defensive football with no plan for a counter attack so that must mean Norwich fans demand that we play like Barca under Guardiola. I agree, we as fans demand that we make 100 passes between out 4 ft9 midfielders before we even make an attempt on goal because we didn't like one out of many possible approaches to setting a team up.

We'll sure show Newcastle or Palace how to play real football....until they give it to Zaha or Saint-Maximin who will dribble around our entire team and blast it into the goal unchallenged....at least we have the moral high ground. 

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I'm not belittling the amount we've spent - millions on quality musical instruments. Unfortunately the Conductor keeps dropping the baton.

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29 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday,Sunderland, Middlesbrough, Ipsh*t are just some of the clubs who’ve had far less success than us in recent years despite spending large amounts of money. What have we done that they haven’t?

Obsessed with Ipswich? Much?

Edited by robert choice
Laughing too much.

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7 hours ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

Think you may have missed the point being made in your eagerness to disagree. We could have spent £1billion on players, the point being made was that our model doesn’t allow for the wage structure to buy players that are known PL performers, ie 15-20m and 60k wages, the type of players the teams in and around us will have in their team. Come back with a league table showing budget and disprove what has been said on here and by the club

Perhaps you can remind me which players who fit that description were bought by Watford and Brentford.

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4 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Perhaps you can remind me which players who fit that description were bought by Watford and Brentford.

Watford and Brentford didn't sell their best player on promotion 

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7 hours ago, Son Ova Gunn said:

our model doesn’t allow for the wage structure to buy players that are known PL performers, ie 15-20m and 60k wages

Newly promoted teams don't very often buy "known Premier League performers."

Which "known Premier League performers" did Watford and Brentford buy this summer?

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4 minutes ago, Haus said:

Watford and Brentford didn't sell their best player on promotion 

And which players did they buy who were PL proven talent?

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2 hours ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Lots of those ins and outs are youth players. Don’t think it would have to much impact on the first team dressing room

Kabak, Williams, Normann, Gibson, Giannoulis, Lees-Melou, Rashica, Tzolis, Sargent, Gunn, Gilmour. I suggest you think again about what you have just claimed. Also, please feel free to detail how many of those millions spent have been spent on players for the academy. 

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