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Hank shoots Skyler

Leicester VAR

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Anyone see their disallowed goals and pen given against them? Did somewhat enjoy them having a couple of goals disallowed under the same circumstances as McLean’s header.

Would advise anyone who has been pandering the anti-Norwich officiating conspiracies recently to take a look. Miles worse than anything we’ve had against us!

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13 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Anyone see their disallowed goals and pen given against them? Did somewhat enjoy them having a couple of goals disallowed under the same circumstances as McLean’s header.

Yes - did a thread about it earlier.

 

What Goes Around.PNG

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16 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Yes - did a thread about it earlier.

 

What Goes Around.PNG

Sorry TL, did have a scroll down as thought it might’ve been mentioned but missed it! A lot of threads at the moment… 

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7 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Anyone see their disallowed goals and pen given against them? Did somewhat enjoy them having a couple of goals disallowed under the same circumstances as McLean’s header.

Would advise anyone who has been pandering the anti-Norwich officiating conspiracies recently to take a look. Miles worse than anything we’ve had against us!

Then watch Liverpool's goal that did stand when Mane in an offside position blocked a defender who could feasibly have stopped the goal going in.

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I take no comfort in another team being screwed over. Fact remains we are continually hard done by including again on Saturday when a penalty to put us 2-1 up could have completely changed the complexion of that game despite our ropey defence. Goals change games. That was a blatant penalty and the fact that both the ref didn’t give it and VAR didn’t intervene tells you the system is still sh*t. In fact I think it’s worse this season as inept on field decisions are not being corrected. 

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45 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I take no comfort in another team being screwed over. Fact remains we are continually hard done by including again on Saturday when a penalty to put us 2-1 up could have completely changed the complexion of that game despite our ropey defence. Goals change games. That was a blatant penalty and the fact that both the ref didn’t give it and VAR didn’t intervene tells you the system is still sh*t. In fact I think it’s worse this season as inept on field decisions are not being corrected. 

I suppose it’s relief more than anything; the system isn’t rigged against us specifically it’s just incompetent for everyone. I had generally thought it was going better this season, but some absolute howlers on the weekend, the West Ham / United non-penalties were also shocking. 

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50 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I take no comfort in another team being screwed over. Fact remains we are continually hard done by including again on Saturday when a penalty to put us 2-1 up could have completely changed the complexion of that game despite our ropey defence. Goals change games. That was a blatant penalty and the fact that both the ref didn’t give it and VAR didn’t intervene tells you the system is still sh*t. In fact I think it’s worse this season as inept on field decisions are not being corrected. 

I'm still finding VAR one of the most painful parts of being in the Premier League, and considering our results so far that's saying something.

We have Cantwell's goal overturned against Leicester, yet we have a definite penalty against Watford and we don't even get told about a check happening. On the same day Man City concede a definite pen from Walker, but that does get looked at and overturned, and how on earth it gets overturned I literally have no idea.

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9 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I'm still finding VAR one of the most painful parts of being in the Premier League, and considering our results so far that's saying something.

We have Cantwell's goal overturned against Leicester, yet we have a definite penalty against Watford and we don't even get told about a check happening. On the same day Man City concede a definite pen from Walker, but that does get looked at and overturned, and how on earth it gets overturned I literally have no idea.

The worry this season is that (in general) the trend seems to be back towards bigger clubs getting the decisions, so far at least.

Offside seems to remain the biggest issue including when linesmen flag or not. The Cantwell goal was supposedly upheld because the linesman flagged on the pitch. The implication being that has he not flagged it might have stood. But how can a linesman even tell if a player is blocking another players sight of the ball or indeed preventing the keeper from diving for it?

On a similar note why did the linesman not flag Aubamayang offside when every single person in the stadium thought he was? I still maintain we were done over there as well but regardless of whether you agree if it was offside or not having seen the replays there is no way the linesman there could have seen the series of richochets that saw the ball end up at his feet.

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41 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

The worry this season is that (in general) the trend seems to be back towards bigger clubs getting the decisions, so far at least.

Offside seems to remain the biggest issue including when linesmen flag or not. The Cantwell goal was supposedly upheld because the linesman flagged on the pitch. The implication being that has he not flagged it might have stood. But how can a linesman even tell if a player is blocking another players sight of the ball or indeed preventing the keeper from diving for it?

On a similar note why did the linesman not flag Aubamayang offside when every single person in the stadium thought he was? I still maintain we were done over there as well but regardless of whether you agree if it was offside or not having seen the replays there is no way the linesman there could have seen the series of richochets that saw the ball end up at his feet.

That's a really fair call, does that mean if the linesman did flag for Arsenal it wouldn't have been overturned because it wouldnt have been obvious? 

The 'obvious' is clearly so subjective and literally lends itself to abuse by poor officials.

I also think it's generally making referee's worse - they feel under no pressure to actually make a big decision.

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The system is this - so you have four officials at the match who are generally not up to it, you add a not up to it fifth official sitting in a room miles away in front of a screen and they expect it to be better.......

The VAR official is under too much pressure to make a quick decision and that is a problem as sometimes there are too many nuances involved for it to be clear cut.

Football was just better without VAR, even with dodgy decisions made without it. Decisions are better judged by eye in the moment a - mistakes will be made, but the dog's breakfast we have now is just making football a laughing stock - in a non-funny way. 

 

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2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The system is this - so you have four officials at the match who are generally not up to it, you add a not up to it fifth official sitting in a room miles away in front of a screen and they expect it to be better.......

The VAR official is under too much pressure to make a quick decision and that is a problem as sometimes there are too many nuances involved for it to be clear cut.

Football was just better without VAR, even with dodgy decisions made without it. Decisions are better judged by eye in the moment a - mistakes will be made, but the dog's breakfast we have now is just making football a laughing stock - in a non-funny way. 

 

There's an argument that as a fan I can accept a referee getting a split-second decision like our pen on saturday wrong every now and again. I really struggle to accept it when someone's watching a f*cking replay in slow-motion 20 times and still not giving it.

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Is there any footage available of our pen shout from Saturday?  I thought it was a penalty at the game live, but not seen it on any "highlight" reel since.

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

On a similar note why did the linesman not flag Aubamayang offside when every single person in the stadium thought he was? I still maintain we were done over there as well but regardless of whether you agree if it was offside or not having seen the replays there is no way the linesman there could have seen the series of richochets that saw the ball end up at his feet.

Because they have been told not to, to allow play to continue then let VAR check it. If it is obvious they can flag, if it isn't they are meant to give the benefit to the attacking team then let the technology do its job

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29 minutes ago, hogesar said:

That's a really fair call, does that mean if the linesman did flag for Arsenal it wouldn't have been overturned because it wouldnt have been obvious? 

The 'obvious' is clearly so subjective and literally lends itself to abuse by poor officials.

I also think it's generally making referee's worse - they feel under no pressure to actually make a big decision.

I don't know with the Arsenal one because of the complexities around that rule and how its being applied in an (again completely made up way) by the officials. It "might" have been overturned but its impossible to tell because there is no explanation provided as to why they concluded it was overside. The assumption that has to be made is its because he was behind the ball when it last touched Pepe but it all hinges on how you apply that rule and whether the offside is/was given for the first touch by Pepe or the second one. We will never know. My own view on that one is that if Aubamayang is offside from either of pepe's touches then the goal should not stand as it was all one "play" and too close together to argue that it was somehow a new phase of play where his previous position is irrelevant. I know others disagree though. 

I still maintain though that instinctively a linesman should be flagging that offside and its strange that he didnt when against us they cant get their flag up quick enough. Its effectively becoming like "umpires call" in cricket whereby if you get the on-field decision then you are half way there. 

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2 minutes ago, AJ said:

Because they have been told not to, to allow play to continue then let VAR check it. If it is obvious they can flag, if it isn't they are meant to give the benefit to the attacking team then let the technology do its job

No they have been told to let the play conclude (whether by way of a goal or the ball going dead) and then to put up their flag to indicate whether they think a player was offside or not. 

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27 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The system is this - so you have four officials at the match who are generally not up to it, you add a not up to it fifth official sitting in a room miles away in front of a screen and they expect it to be better.......

The VAR official is under too much pressure to make a quick decision and that is a problem as sometimes there are too many nuances involved for it to be clear cut.

Football was just better without VAR, even with dodgy decisions made without it. Decisions are better judged by eye in the moment a - mistakes will be made, but the dog's breakfast we have now is just making football a laughing stock - in a non-funny way. 

 

I agree on the quick decisions now. It is an improvement in some ways but its clear to me they are not checking everything they need to. For example with the Cantwell disallowed goal, they needed to check 3 things really (in an offside position, in the keepers line of sight to the ball, did it prevent the keeper playing the ball) but as far as I can tell they only checked whether he was in an offside position. 

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

No they have been told to let the play conclude (whether by way of a goal or the ball going dead) and then to put up their flag to indicate whether they think a player was offside or not. 

I was under the impression that the FA had followed the FIFA guidelines from the recent World Cup, but I could be wrong... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/12/var-world-cup-referees-flag-offsides-pierluigi-collina

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1 minute ago, AJ said:

I was under the impression that the FA had followed the FIFA guidelines from the recent World Cup, but I could be wrong... https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jun/12/var-world-cup-referees-flag-offsides-pierluigi-collina

Yes but he's paraphrasing it. Its right to say they have been told not to raise their flag when the play is still continuing (because presumably otherwise people stop or dont challenge for the ball). What they have been told is to allow the play to continue until its over (e.g. the ball is stuck in the net or shot wide) and then immediately after that raise their flag to indicate if they think there has been an offside. 

So with the Cantwell one, the linesman was correct to signal that he thought Cantwell was in an offside position (which he probably was although even that wasn't clear cut) but my point was that VAR not only needed to check that but also that the other elements of the offside offence he was penalised for had been satisfied. As far as I can tell they did not do that at all. 

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

No they have been told to let the play conclude (whether by way of a goal or the ball going dead) and then to put up their flag to indicate whether they think a player was offside or not. 

That is just STUPID !!! Just flag as soon as it is spotted, why wait ? Who makes these stupid rules ???

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1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

I agree on the quick decisions now. It is an improvement in some ways but its clear to me they are not checking everything they need to. For example with the Cantwell disallowed goal, they needed to check 3 things really (in an offside position, in the keepers line of sight to the ball, did it prevent the keeper playing the ball) but as far as I can tell they only checked whether he was in an offside position. 

I always thought it was the player who kicks the ball who can be flagged offside, not another player who is nowhere near the play? Hence Todd should not have been penalised as offside, but maybe impeding the keeper?

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2 hours ago, Matt Juler said:

Is there any footage available of our pen shout from Saturday?  I thought it was a penalty at the game live, but not seen it on any "highlight" reel since.

Not sure - the Sunday Times match report said that Rose bundled Rashica over for a pretty clear penalty but the referee inexplicably gave a free kick against him…I thought it was given for handball when he landed in the ball.  It was a pretty clear penalty so if it wasn’t included in the ‘highlights’ doesn’t that just make a mockery of them?  It was a crucial play - had we gone 2-1 ahead it would have been a completely different last 30 minutes. 

Incidentally, Rose must have committed at least 6 fouls on Saturday, how he escaped a card was nothing short of astonishing.  

Edited by Branston Pickle
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