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Crafty Canary

Survival Mini League

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The teams I feel we are competing with for survival over the whole season are Newcastle, Burnley, Palace, Southampton, Watford and Brentford irrespective of current league placings.

on this basis the current mimi league table is:

                              P - W - D - L - F - A - Pts

WATFORD.           1 - 1 -  0 - 0 - 3 - 1 - 3

NEWCASTLE.      1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1

SOUTHAMPTON 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1

BRENTFORD.       1 - O - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1

PALACE.               1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1

BURNLEY.             0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0

NORWICH.            1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 3 - 0

Of course this doesn’t take into account each teams results against the rest of the league.

if you think there are more likely candidates for a survival fight feel free to nominate them. I’ll update the table as the teams play each other.

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I think it's too soon to call for a "mini league". For me it starts with around ten teams and thins out as the season goes on.

I think alongside us I named; Burnley, Southampton, Wolves, Brentford, Watford, Brighton, Newcastle, Palace and another of Leeds or Villa for the initial list.

5 games in is still too soon to say who is truly in the "mini-league" though it is looking gloomier by the day for us. You would have to argue that few will have had as tough a start as us and of the promoted sides we have seen the most change. That's me being hopeful.

Only time will tell who is really in that bracket, and another five games will probably make things a lot clearer. Brighton, for example, are already a third of the way to safety, realistically, with five of 38 games gone. So it's going to be hard to see them going down if they pick up even just 6-8 points from their next five games. So in all likelihood, they will get struck off my list.

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I agree it’s early however we are going to be in it whether it’s now or later. I doubt that Wolves or Leeds will be in serious trouble. Brighton play good football but have had problems scoring goals but seem to have got over that so far this season. Similarly Wolves are creating lots of chances and once they get going will climb out of trouble but time will tell.

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Transparent Facepalm Emoji - Slap In Face Emoji, HD Png Download ,  Transparent Png Image - PNGitem

Not sure what to make of this. Is it:

1) You don't agree that those teams will be the ones that are most likely to be down the bottom with us?

2) You have already given up, think we are down and so any talk of a mini league is pointless?

3) Are you still after top 4 - Champions League here we come?

Considering some of your posts over the last few years, I'd be a bit more cautious about using a face palm picture against anyone else...

 Picard Face Palm on Twitter: "Vuelve a ser relevante 🤣… "

OTBC

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7 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Not sure what to make of this. Is it:

1) You don't agree that those teams will be the ones that are most likely to be down the bottom with us?

2) You have already given up, think we are down and so any talk of a mini league is pointless?

3) Are you still after top 4 - Champions League here we come?

Considering some of your posts over the last few years, I'd be a bit more cautious about using a face palm picture against anyone else...

OTBC

I think the mini-league is about as stupid a concept as could be invented. Yes we want to beat the teams that will be around us - but we want to get points elsewhere too and it is - imo - false thinking to target any one game over another. You never know where points can be got and you could be playing Man City one week and one of the mini-league the next and win the one against man city and lose the other one - and then who is to say which game was more important......    We know that is true because we beat Man City last time in the PL and lost the following week to Burnley.

So mini-leagues are fraught with problems.  Treat every game as if it is a cup final, regardless of who it is against. 

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Read the first sentence of my post after the table! What we can be sure of is to finish at the lower end of the mini league table will mean going down. If we do poorly against these teams why would you expect to get more points than them against the better ones?

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7 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Read the first sentence of my post after the table! What we can be sure of is to finish at the lower end of the mini league table will mean going down. If we do poorly against these teams why would you expect to get more points than them against the better ones?

Because football is unpredictable.

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

I think the mini-league is about as stupid a concept as could be invented. Yes we want to beat the teams that will be around us - but we want to get points elsewhere too and it is - imo - false thinking to target any one game over another. You never know where points can be got and you could be playing Man City one week and one of the mini-league the next and win the one against man city and lose the other one - and then who is to say which game was more important......    We know that is true because we beat Man City last time in the PL and lost the following week to Burnley.

So mini-leagues are fraught with problems.  Treat every game as if it is a cup final, regardless of who it is against. 

It's more important to beat the teams around us precisely because they are around us!!! They are who we are fighting to stay up. Lose and it's a positive to them and a negative to us and visa versa the other way round. You seriously can't really need that explaining Lakey. I'd have taken a win over Watford yesterday over a win at Arsenal any day of the week as it's more likely we'll be fighting Watford to stay up come season end.

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Because football is unpredictable.

No it isn't. If it was, there'd be a different Premier League winner every year and we wouldn't be favourites for the drop every time we come up. Just because you get the odd surprising result doesn't make it Alice in Wonderland.

OTBC

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11 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

I'd have taken a win over Watford yesterday over a win at Arsenal any day of the week as it's more likely we'll be fighting Watford to stay up come season end.

A win is a win is a win. Win enough matches and it matters not a jot what any other team does. 

People are talking football into divisions within divisions that pander to the idea that one team is more important to beat than another and football simply should not be put into these arbitary brackets that try and pin down where you will get your points - points are available every match and that should be the only consideration.   Get enough of them and you will stay up. 

I get the scenario, you get Man City on the Saturday, then you get say a Brentford on a Tuesday and you think I'll save my best team for against Brentford....lo and behold you lose badly to Man City and then probably lose to Brentford as well - result nil points.  On the other hand you put out your best team against Man City, somehow get a draw - or even a win - and that sets your team up with huge confidence for the Brentford match where you might then well get something. 

So the mini-league takes it imo to a daft level of trying to control where your points come from. Near the end of the season - yes - there is a bit more at stake when clubs meet that are close to each other, but over the whole season? Forget it. I guess some clubs will try to see it that way, but really it is just restricting your outlook to just a few clubs instead of all of them. 

 

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8 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

A win is a win is a win. Win enough matches and it matters not a jot what any other team does. 

People are talking football into divisions within divisions that pander to the idea that one team is more important to beat than another and football simply should not be put into these arbitary brackets that try and pin down where you will get your points - points are available every match and that should be the only consideration.   Get enough of them and you will stay up. 

I get the scenario, you get Man City on the Saturday, then you get say a Brentford on a Tuesday and you think I'll save my best team for against Brentford....lo and behold you lose badly to Man City and then probably lose to Brentford as well - result nil points.  On the other hand you put out your best team against Man City, somehow get a draw - or even a win - and that sets your team up with huge confidence for the Brentford match where you might then well get something. 

So the mini-league takes it imo to a daft level of trying to control where your points come from. Near the end of the season - yes - there is a bit more at stake when clubs meet that are close to each other, but over the whole season? Forget it. I guess some clubs will try to see it that way, but really it is just restricting your outlook to just a few clubs instead of all of them. 

 

You’ve nailed it Lakey, Chelsea coming up soon and we will hammer em. 

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15 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

You’ve nailed it Lakey, Chelsea coming up soon and we will hammer em. 

I should have learned by now to smile at him, nod politely and then run like hell...but he sucks me in every time. I can't work out if he's the God of Trolls or whether he really believes what he writes. Scarily, I think it's the latter.

He certainly makes this place interesting, I'll give him that.

OTBC

Edited by Disco Dales Jockstrap

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1 minute ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

I should have learned by now to smile at him, nod politely and then run like hell...but he sucks me in every time. I can't work out if he's the God of Trolls or whether he really believes what he writes. Scarcely, I think it's the latter.

He certainly makes this place interesting, I'll give him that.

OTBC

Lakey is great but must have banged his head in some nasty accident years ago. 

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3 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Because football is unpredictable.

Is that why we have lost the last 15 PL games we have played?

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6 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

You give optimism a bad name 😏

If memory serves, the first time a mini league was circulated in this forum was under Lambert's Prem season, when we stayed up. Who knows, maybe that's the trick. Hexes, anyone?    

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18 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

The teams I feel we are competing with for survival over the whole season are Newcastle, Burnley, Palace, Southampton, Watford and Brentford irrespective of current league placings.

on this basis the current mimi league table is:

                              P - W - D - L - F - A - Pts

WATFORD.           1 - 1 -  0 - 0 - 3 - 1 - 3

NEWCASTLE.      1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1

SOUTHAMPTON 1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 2 - 2 - 1

BRENTFORD.       1 - O - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1

PALACE.               1 - 0 - 1 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 1

BURNLEY.             0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0 - 0

NORWICH.            1 - 0 - 0 - 1 - 1 - 3 - 0

Of course this doesn’t take into account each teams results against the rest of the league.

if you think there are more likely candidates for a survival fight feel free to nominate them. I’ll update the table as the teams play each other.

I think this is a really good post and would be good to see it updated every now and then. Agree with the list although 

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I also think Leeds and Wolves may be more involved in a relegation scrap than would have been envisaged in the summer. Leeds may have a 'second season' syndrome whilst I think Wolves may well continue a drift down the table. Despite a very good start, Brighton are unlikely to be out of this mix also. 

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7 hours ago, Budapest Canary said:

If memory serves, the first time a mini league was circulated in this forum was under Lambert's Prem season, when we stayed up. Who knows, maybe that's the trick. Hexes, anyone?    

 

Exactly. The first year up we won most , if not all,  of the six pointers against teams like QPR. We nicked a few standout points - away to Liverpool, away to Spurs,  springs to mind- but it was gaining points and in turn denying teams around you that are the most valuable. 
 

Frankly anyone who can’t see that really should take up knitting . 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

 

Exactly. The first year up we won most , if not all,  of the six pointers against teams like QPR. We nicked a few standout points - away to Liverpool, away to Spurs,  springs to mind- but it was gaining points and in turn denying teams around you that are the most valuable. 
Frankly anyone who can’t see that really should take up knitting .

I'll get to it......knit one pearl one, knit one pearl one......

Seriously though, points against rivals are important, obviously, but even you pointed out we got points elsewhere too.........

Edited by lake district canary
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12 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'll get to it......knit one pearl one, knit one pearl one......

Seriously though, points against rivals are important, obviously, but even you pointed out we got points elsewhere too.........

If it’s good enough for Tom Daley 😀

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46 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'll get to it......knit one pearl one, knit one pearl one......

Seriously though, points against rivals are important, obviously, but even you pointed out we got points elsewhere too.........

It’s ‘purl’, not ‘pearl’ 🤦‍♂️

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