Should We Sack Farke? (Poll)

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

7 hours ago, nutty nigel said:

Bangs on the head can have serious consequences.

The games are still not relevant in whether Farke should be sacked now. They are only relevant for the few who can say "told you so". Webber and the board are not one of those.

It would be the most ridiculous decision in the history of our great club to sack Farke now.

Have a good day mate 😉

[Block Y Seat 176 80]

14 hours ago, komakino said:

Apology accepted. 

Why Mid-December? It will be too late. Far too late. 

There is a dangerous by product if our failure to get points continues. 

Two seasons ago, our 'take the money' approach was not liked in the media. I've already seen comments in National press that Norwich should be banned from the EPL as they are seen as little more than financial mercenaries. That will grow and grow, believe me. 

There is a reasonable chance that the EPL will place restrictions on clubs that are perceived as not taking the league seriously, and/or perform very badly. Think of it a bit like the 107% qualifying rule in F1. Standards must be maintained. 

Therefore, parachute payments could be restricted or even removed if certain criteria is not reached. The self funding model would then be in bits. 

I like Farke, but I had a niggling feeling the top tier was one tier too far. We cannot afford to wait, in every sense. 

A lack of pre season training and international call ups for newly signed players has hindered the start of our season. Add on two international breaks during the start of the Premier season and coaches like Farke will be frustrated at the actual amount of time they have working on fitness, team building and tactics.

Sacking Farke now after all he has achieved and with the knowledge of the above would be a knee jerk reaction to a temporary problem and only to appease the minority. 

Re appraising our situation in December, will give Farke October and November to form his team and tactics.

My frustration with Farke at the moment is his mindset. He wants to win games, but we don’t have the foundations of a team to  not concede first.

Southampton seem to be have that defensive mindset but with an attacking threat, of which at the moment I am envious.

OTBC

 

 

[Kingston Yellow 220]

On 18/09/2021 at 23:36, Highland Canary said:

Farke isn’t the problem. He is a genius to have achieved so much with so little.  It is simply the quality of the players which is being found out again. That goes to the board. Our so-called model is fundamentally incompatible with running a competitive PL team. 

I agree with this to a large extent and agree that the owners and directors are just as culpable, but the chopping and changing to line up, the tactics and formation and the lack of fight is on the coaching team and is extremely worrying.   
 

I love Farke but Saturday was a disaster.  And I don’t buy into this “the first four games we’re impossible” thing.  There were points to be won.

[Mello Yello 2,277]

I used to be indecisive but now I'm not so sure so I chose undecided but will wait and then agree with the majority populist vote and opinion so nobody is horrible to me on this forum as I'm quite sensitive.....and just want to be adored......

Oh, I now see that the poll is now closed so...."Hey everyone Daniel deserves more time!"......

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

20 hours ago, Monty13 said:

Even with the emotion there’s a lot more saying yes than I expected. Some prominent posters whose opinion I respect as well.

Think people dismissing the idea as ridiculous need to at least acknowledge there’s a growing loss of patience and that’s not an invalid opinion.

I also noticed that Monty13, the 25% included a lot of old time posters, not those that you'd expect to have a rant on canary call after watching the game on the wireless.

It is quite high considering Farke also benefits from the goodwill associated with just being a likeable person. Although not quite high enough to justify any money on next manager sacked. I still think that will be Arteta, but the Southampton manager is also in desperate need of a win.  

Edited September 20, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[BigGrantsTash 70]

Sacking Farke is pointless. We have the weakest squad in the league and the poorest owners. Nobody can keep us up this season.

He will walk/leave by mutual consent at end of the season once we’re relegated anyway.

[hogesar 9,615]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I also noticed that Monty13, the 25% included a lot of old time posters, not those that you'd expect to have a rant on canary call after watching the game on the wireless.

It is quite high considering Farke also benefits from the goodwill associated with just being a likeable person. Although not quite high enough to justify any money on next manager sacked. I still think that will be Arteta, but the Southampton manager is also in desperate need of a win.  

I wouldn't read much into it, it's quite clearly been quite reactionary to Saturdays result.

For example, should we get even a point against Everton and you run the same poll I think that 50 ends up halfed.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

6 minutes ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Sacking Farke is pointless. We have the weakest squad in the league and the poorest owners. 

It is our mentality that is lacking.

Paul Lambert kept us up with a weaker squad, and so did Chris Hughton.

That's the fact of the matter, awkward one at that.

Farke has been supported in the market, now its sink or swim. 

[Google Bot 3,256]

8 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Paul Lambert kept us up with a weaker squad, and so did Chris Hughton.

I'd say technically weaker squad maybe, but they weren't physically weaker than what we have now.  And that's the big difference, the Lambert squad was also full of mentally strong characters, i.e. leaders.  Russ Martin, Grant Holt, Bradley Johnson, Howson etc.  Where are the players of that stature today? 

But crucially we had a mentality to dig in and win, with less about being a long-term aim of developing a brand of football that could be replicated at a top team.  i.e. Lambert was playing the situation in search of results, he was not establishing a finesse form of football.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, Google Bot said:

I'd say technically weaker squad maybe, but they weren't physically weaker than what we have now.  And that's the big difference, the Lambert squad was also full of mentally strong characters, i.e. leaders.  Russ Martin, Grant Holt, Bradley Johnson, Howson etc.  Where are the players of that stature today? 

But crucially we had a mentality to dig in and win, with less about being a long-term aim of developing a brand of football that could be replicated at a top team.  i.e. Lambert was playing the situation in search of results, he was not establishing a finesse form of football.

But why do we focus on developing a "brand of football that could be replicated at a top team", purely so we can produce players that we can flog to top teams? 

The idea of being a Watford or Burnley and have a sustained run without relegation appeals to me, its not really fun being the leagues whipping boys.

I don't care if somewhere down the line we get kudos for producing talent... do people still talk about the time West Ham produced and then flogged Rio Ferdinand, Frank Lampard,  Glen Johnson, Michael Carrick, Joe Cole, and Jermaine Defoe? They were basically the academy for the England national team; two of those players were genuine world class, we'll never beat that productivity. 

What history would remember is a run of 8 years in the Premier League or something, a cheeky FA Cup win. 

[Google Bot 3,256]

17 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

But why do we focus on developing a "brand of football that could be replicated at a top team", purely so we can produce players that we can flog to top teams? 

More so because Farke and Webber are focusing on their careers longterm. 

Both progressive guys with clearly defined targets of being the best at what they do.  Farke's aim isn't being a Paul Lambert digging in and putting points on the board, he wants to eventually be at a top European club and he's learning his trade here as it fits our requirement - and he has plenty of time too.

Likewise Webber has the sole aim of delivering us the top 26 target that he set out, balancing the books, clearing our debts, establishing assets and enhancing our facilities.  He's ticking every box, but fans are wanting top 17 now.

Basically what we're getting from it is what you suggest - turning rocks into diamonds and selling them as ready made players to top tier clubs.   The hope is that we stick at it long enough we succeed, of course.

People wanting short-term solutions under these guys, or suddenly adapt a 'win at all costs' mentally - it just isn't happening unless there's a serious overhaul, and that could become a far worse nightmare vs what we're dealing with today.

Edited September 20, 2021 by Google Bot

[BigGrantsTash 70]

53 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It is our mentality that is lacking.

Paul Lambert kept us up with a weaker squad, and so did Chris Hughton.

That's the fact of the matter, awkward one at that.

Farke has been supported in the market, now its sink or swim. 

Was it a weaker squad though? It cost less yes. Prices weren’t as high then though. We were still able to buy the best champ players for 2-4 million.

What I would say is that the characters we had in the team were very different. As much as they weren’t technically great footballers. I’d do anything to have a Grant Holt or Bradley Johnson in the team.

[ROBFLECK 132]

Too late...oopss...but the end is near...

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

41 minutes ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Was it a weaker squad though? It cost less yes. Prices weren’t as high then though. We were still able to buy the best champ players for 2-4 million.

What I would say is that the characters we had in the team were very different. As much as they weren’t technically great footballers. I’d do anything to have a Grant Holt or Bradley Johnson in the team.

Elliott Bennett and Anthony Pilkington were signed from League One and completely skipped the Championship before playing for us in the Prem!

Also.... Dennis, Sissoko and King cost Watford a grand total of about £6m combined in transfer fees and they tore us apart. 

Ryan Bennett our biggest transfer fee that season for £3.5m, that was the 14th highest transfer fee received by a Championship club that season.

 

 

Edited September 20, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[norfolkbroadslim 223]

P43 W5 D6 L32 F28 A89 GD-61 - WIN RATIO = 11.63%

 

He should be sacked.  His PL record is abysmal.  He doesn't have the ability to adapt to this league.  Changing managers isn't pointless.  Let's face the reality, it would be difficult for a new manager to have a worse record in the PL if we're being honest. 

We definitely have a squad capable of picking up points in the Premier League.  Take Brentford for example (no I don't wish we were Brentford), they haven't taken the league by storm, but they have picked up some decent, solid points.  Yet we won the league last season with a record number of points, finishing comfortably above Brentford.  Yes, on paper Brentford's opening fixtures have been easier.  But, this is Farke's second shot at the big time now.  We lost Emi, but the squad definitely has more strength and depth to it.  However, never mind picking up a win, we don't even look like picking up a point.  You don't go from 97 Championship points to the current shambles unless something is inherently wrong.

The team looks lost at times.  Farke doesn't look like he has learnt anything from 2 seasons ago.  

Give him more time?  How much more time?  What is the point?  The last 4 years has proven that Farke and his coaches can't sort the defence.  43 Premier League games have shown that he can't set the team up to handle the opposition's power and pace.  We don't impose our identity enough on the opposition and we are far too predictable and naive in our set up and thus make things too easy for the opposition to create chances as easy as a knife slicing through butter.

At the start of the season I was feeling positive and fairly confident that there were at least 3 worse teams in the league than us.  Now I feel that we are the worst team in the league.  We just don't have an identity, we've lost it, where's it gone?  We're far too soft and naive.

Southampton have had some horrific Premier League results over recent years, but I looked at their result and performance at Man City with admiration.  The way they ground out a point.  Sadly, we don't look anywhere near close to doing anything like that against anyone in this league.

[dylanisabaddog 4,858]

I don't know what the OP does for a living but I think he should be sacked

[non-scoring strikers 113]

57 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

P43 W5 D6 L32 F28 A89 GD-61 - WIN RATIO = 11.63%

 

He should be sacked.  His PL record is abysmal.  He doesn't have the ability to adapt to this league.  Changing managers isn't pointless.  Let's face the reality, it would be difficult for a new manager to have a worse record in the PL if we're being honest. 

We definitely have a squad capable of picking up points in the Premier League.  Take Brentford for example (no I don't wish we were Brentford), they haven't taken the league by storm, but they have picked up some decent, solid points.  Yet we won the league last season with a record number of points, finishing comfortably above Brentford.  Yes, on paper Brentford's opening fixtures have been easier.  But, this is Farke's second shot at the big time now.  We lost Emi, but the squad definitely has more strength and depth to it.  However, never mind picking up a win, we don't even look like picking up a point.  You don't go from 97 Championship points to the current shambles unless something is inherently wrong.

The team looks lost at times.  Farke doesn't look like he has learnt anything from 2 seasons ago.  

Give him more time?  How much more time?  What is the point?  The last 4 years has proven that Farke and his coaches can't sort the defence.  43 Premier League games have shown that he can't set the team up to handle the opposition's power and pace.  We don't impose our identity enough on the opposition and we are far too predictable and naive in our set up and thus make things too easy for the opposition to create chances as easy as a knife slicing through butter.

At the start of the season I was feeling positive and fairly confident that there were at least 3 worse teams in the league than us.  Now I feel that we are the worst team in the league.  We just don't have an identity, we've lost it, where's it gone?  We're far too soft and naive.

Southampton have had some horrific Premier League results over recent years, but I looked at their result and performance at Man City with admiration.  The way they ground out a point.  Sadly, we don't look anywhere near close to doing anything like that against anyone in this league.

This, this and this again. 

I just cannot understand why people are making excuses for Farke when keeping him is to the detriment of Norwich's safety in the Premier league. 

That really is the end of the matter.

Webber should be proactively sourcing the replacement. 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

I've been banging my head all day. But I still think sacking Farke would be ridiculous. But I have taken a couple of paracetamol and going for a lay down.

[komakino 272]

13 minutes ago, non-scoring strikers said:

This, this and this again. 

I just cannot understand why people are making excuses for Farke when keeping him is to the detriment of Norwich's safety in the Premier league. 

That really is the end of the matter.

Webber should be proactively sourcing the replacement. 

I'm sure Webber must at the very least have an eye on one or two candidates. 

However, I think some of the reason that Farke has got away so lightly is that certainly the compared to our purple patch of the late 80's/early '90's, there is an apathy with a part of the fanbase which was never there at that time. If we were 10th, we wanted to be 6th, if we were 6th, we wanted to be 3rd and so forth, but now, some don't seem to mind going back to the second tier which would have been unthinkable in years gone by. The 'Delia-isation' you could call.

Therefore if you had owners and fans completely on the same side that wanted to progress and would do anything to achieve that, then Farke would have been out on his backside before now. But we haven't got that, so he remains in situ. 

Instead we have majority shareholders who have never been that complementary to the EPL ( 'We're no better off' I remember Delia one said) and The Championship is their comfort zone. I think the league is great, but do I want us to go back there? - not a chance! However, I have met fans that prefer us in The Championship and even more bizarrely, fans that didn't renew their Season Ticket because we got promoted.  

So in a way, we've became conditioned in failure to a point where it doesn't matter and that comes straight from the top. 

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

TWTD 

 

 

[TheGunnShow 5,925]

Some interesting rationalisations masquerading as analysis. 

Fact is, we won the Championship the season after being relegated. Very few teams do that. Heck, only about one in three manage to go back up. We not only went back up, we won it with a club record points total in the middle of a pandemic. Throw in the fact that Buendia wanted out pretty much all the way through that season and was our best player, and our second-best was arguably Skipp on loan, and Farke's had to somewhat rebuild a team upon getting promoted instead of having a very settled one.

Lob in a Covid-affected pre-season where two friendlies were called off, the opening fixture list from hell and losing the first four was always an extremely likely outcome. Even then, we were two close offside calls against gaining two draws.

Losing to Watford is reason to be annoyed, but not to panic.

[non-scoring strikers 113]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Some interesting rationalisations masquerading as analysis. 

Fact is, we won the Championship the season after being relegated. Very few teams do that. Heck, only about one in three manage to go back up. We not only went back up, we won it with a club record points total in the middle of a pandemic. Throw in the fact that Buendia wanted out pretty much all the way through that season and was our best player, and our second-best was arguably Skipp on loan, and Farke's had to somewhat rebuild a team upon getting promoted instead of having a very settled one.

Lob in a Covid-affected pre-season where two friendlies were called off, the opening fixture list from hell and losing the first four was always an extremely likely outcome. Even then, we were two close offside calls against gaining two draws.

Losing to Watford is reason to be annoyed, but not to panic.

Again, these excuses are bonkers. 

Are you a Norwich fan that genuinely wants the best for the club or a fan of an individual man?

Winning the championship is lovely. But its a lesser league. We're in the Premier league now. 

11% win ratio in 43 games at this level. 

End of. 

Would Charlton fans be making excuses for Les Reed? 

[sonyc 5,488]

51 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Some interesting rationalisations masquerading as analysis. 

Fact is, we won the Championship the season after being relegated. Very few teams do that. Heck, only about one in three manage to go back up. We not only went back up, we won it with a club record points total in the middle of a pandemic. Throw in the fact that Buendia wanted out pretty much all the way through that season and was our best player, and our second-best was arguably Skipp on loan, and Farke's had to somewhat rebuild a team upon getting promoted instead of having a very settled one.

Lob in a Covid-affected pre-season where two friendlies were called off, the opening fixture list from hell and losing the first four was always an extremely likely outcome. Even then, we were two close offside calls against gaining two draws.

Losing to Watford is reason to be annoyed, but not to panic.

Far too sensible in analysis TGS.

Annoyed, frustrated, aggrieved, disappointed ...yes, panic...no. Is everything great?...no. Is Farke a great manager in the PL?... not at the moment...... but will getting some results soon change everything? Yes.

Imagine you're the board and you sack someone immediately when things start to go wrong. There would have been no Ferguson for sure.

The fan base is turning though isn't it? A lot of more moderate supporters ( a sizeable minority) have voiced their anger.

Yet, Farke for me is not like the  Hughton or Roeder situation (or even Worthington) because their demises went on and on before we acted. Give DF some time with this new team - that's my take. I am able to accept I would be in the wrong if he fails.

I have wondered too that if DF did go (scaked or resigned) could we imagine that Webber and the management team would stand down too fairly quickly? The 'project' is one large united team after all. Webber is a large cog in the recruitment process. Maybe that is what some posters want (along with the owners out too of course)? Maybe too those posts by Big Vince and Big Keith have also influenced some members of this board? They only sing when we are losing after all. Given the PL now is so fragmented by wealth there has never been such a massive gap in resources between the top 8 to 10 clubs and the rest. A club like Norwich will always struggle to be at the very top table. In which case, the critics of our club will often have their field days.

I notice Bad Gateway has returned - I can now only hope it's around next Saturday around 5.00pm if we lose the match!😄

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Some interesting rationalisations masquerading as analysis. 

Fact is, we won the Championship the season after being relegated. Very few teams do that. Heck, only about one in three manage to go back up. We not only went back up, we won it with a club record points total in the middle of a pandemic. Throw in the fact that Buendia wanted out pretty much all the way through that season and was our best player, and our second-best was arguably Skipp on loan, and Farke's had to somewhat rebuild a team upon getting promoted instead of having a very settled one.

Lob in a Covid-affected pre-season where two friendlies were called off, the opening fixture list from hell and losing the first four was always an extremely likely outcome. Even then, we were two close offside calls against gaining two draws.

Losing to Watford is reason to be annoyed, but not to panic.

Great post. Farke is arguably our best ever manager and has earned our support in these tough times.

[norfolkngood 1,086]

8 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Great post. Farke is arguably our best ever manager and has earned our support in these tough times.

I would say Lambert is our best Manager from League 1 to Keeping us in the PL was amazing 

Yes farke did nothing short of Magic in his Getting us to the Premier league 

Then fair enough he was not backed 

Then he had by far the best team in the championship and got us up ( great again not many have done it ) but what players he had for a Championship side 

But now here we are again 

Lambert did not Rebuild a club i know that but his player would run through brick walls from him 

i honestly think a Paul Lambert PL side would Beat a Farke side of today by Bullying them and running straight over them 

 

 

[chicken 2,604]

4 hours ago, BigGrantsTash said:

Was it a weaker squad though? It cost less yes. Prices weren’t as high then though. We were still able to buy the best champ players for 2-4 million.

What I would say is that the characters we had in the team were very different. As much as they weren’t technically great footballers. I’d do anything to have a Grant Holt or Bradley Johnson in the team.

They were a stronger 'team' in that their mentality was far, far stronger. You had players who'd run through walls for you like Holt, Morrison, Johnson, Tierney, R. Martin, C. Martin, Ward, and even Jackson, though being about half the size.

That side was equal amounts guile and brute. Hoolahan, Fox, E.Bennett and Pilkington all possessed skill and the latter two also had pace. Ruddy was a solid enough keeper for us too.

I certainly think our strike force had more value than we paid for it. Morrison, Martin, Holt and less so Jackson. Losing them and replacing them with RVW, Hooper and Elmander I think underlined that. 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,037]

9 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

I would say Lambert is our best Manager from League 1 to Keeping us in the PL was amazing 

Yes farke did nothing short of Magic in his Getting us to the Premier league 

Then fair enough he was not backed 

Then he had by far the best team in the championship and got us up ( great again not many have done it ) but what players he had for a Championship side 

But now here we are again 

Lambert did not Rebuild a club i know that but his player would run through brick walls from him 

i honestly think a Paul Lambert PL side would Beat a Farke side of today by Bullying them and running straight over them 

 

 

Lambert was incredible here, no doubt and even Farke's biggest fan cant claim he's cracked it in the PL yet, but he is *arguably* our best ever manager and he should be backed to get us going. Lambert jumped ship before he could have a bad season with us and his record since suggests that it wouldnt have been far away.

[hogesar 9,615]

10 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

I would say Lambert is our best Manager from League 1 to Keeping us in the PL was amazing 

Yes farke did nothing short of Magic in his Getting us to the Premier league 

Then fair enough he was not backed 

Then he had by far the best team in the championship and got us up ( great again not many have done it ) but what players he had for a Championship side 

But now here we are again 

Lambert did not Rebuild a club i know that but his player would run through brick walls from him 

i honestly think a Paul Lambert PL side would Beat a Farke side of today by Bullying them and running straight over them 

 

 

Some of the posters now saying last season was par for the course because of the squad we had were saying we didn't stand a chance of promotion under Farke a few games into last season.

And if you look at the list of those voting Farke Out, its actually a positive. Most of them were happy to let Farke go after losing to Derby at the start of last season. Some of them have on occasion wanted the likes of Rowett or Warnock to replace Farke.

Of course, they will be eventually be right but the odds are they'll be wrong again. We know Webber won't act just because some fans demand it at least.

 

[nutty nigel 7,509]

14 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

 

i honestly think a Paul Lambert PL side would Beat a Farke side of today by Bullying them and running straight over them 

 

 

epFZUer3rk4

 

[norfolkngood 1,086]

2 minutes ago, Worthy Nigelton said:

Lambert was incredible here, no doubt and even Farke's biggest fan cant claim he's cracked it in the PL yet, but he is *arguably* our best ever manager and he should be backed to get us going. Lambert jumped ship before he could have a bad season with us and his record since suggests that it wouldnt have been far away.

Yes i understand Lambert has Done nothing since leaving us,

But when he was Here His PL record with a side Promoted Wins it for me over Farke 

If Farke does it in the PL he will be the best by Far