Booing is and always will be tin-pot

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

20 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Supporters support 100% of the time.  It's not rocket science. 

I swore audibly when Hanley and McLean both got pickpocketed toward the end of the game. That wasn't super supportive in that moment, so guess I'm not a supporter of NCFC either then? 

And presumably also under your definition, anyone who neither boo'd nor clapped at the end is also not a supporter? 

Or maybe these brief moments are overridden by the fact I spent the vast majority of the game well behind the players, clapping and cheering and encouraging wherever I could? 

Why does the 0.1% of the match define those people as opposed to the remainder which was good? I thought the crowd on Saturday was generally lively and positive, and as best as could be expected given the circumstances. 

As Monty said earlier, you and badger are getting far too obsessed with the semantics of the word and not considering what it really means in the real world. Very few fans spend 100% of their second of their time visibly supporting the club, I barely noticed anyone clapping at the end around where I was standing on Saturday - presumably no supporters near me at Carrow Road!

Its like saying you're not a chef because you don't spent 100% of your time cooking dinners!!

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

 

 

I can translate that as "Hanley, you're useless"😁

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

29 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Supporters support 100% of the time.  It's not rocket science.  Fans who boo can try and justify it as much as they like, but they will be seen by the majority as just noisy ingrates and a threat to the well being of the club.

Take a game we are losing and people start booing as with the substitutions on Saturday - is that really helpful?  Does that inspire the players?  Does it get them going? No, of course not - all it does is make them feel they are fighting their own crowd as well as the opposition players - it makes their jobs harder.  "No, no", the booers cry, "it will make them realise we aren't happy and will make them buck up their ideas"........

Ba!!s it will. 

Have we come to a conclusion yet on the merits of booing or is it back to square 1? 
 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

50 minutes ago, Badger said:

For those that think that booing helps players, here's another quotation from Gareth Bale, to go alongside the Steven Gerrard and Alex Ferguson points earlier.

If it affects them, what impact do you think our young Greek attacker (19 years old) 2000+ miles from home making his premier league debut when he steps on the pitch to a hale of boos? 

Gareth Bale

"I just don't get it. Because if you're not having a good time on the pitch, you would expect your fans to get behind you and try and make you do better because that will make them happy. But it seems to be they do the opposite.

"They just whistle you, which makes you feel worse, so you lose your confidence. They you play worse, which is going to make them even more upset...And the next time a chance comes the goal seems tiny. It's like a putt. The goal just gets smaller."

https://www.sportbible.com/football/news-gareth-bale-opens-up-about-being-booed-by-80000-real-madrid-fans-20200803

I don't think anyone thinks booing is particularly helpful, as @Naturalcynic says is an emotional and spontaneous response to what is a very emotionally charged game. It is the totally natural opposite to clapping, cheering and singing when things are great, there is no getting away from that.

You brought up quotes from Ferguson earlier on booing, well how 'supportive' of a manager was he being when he kicked a boot across the changing room and hit Beckham in the face? I'm sure he would freely admit that was the wrong thing to do but guess what? He still did it! 

And I'm sure you can find 100s more quotes of players and managers saying that booing isn't helpful. But what does that actually prove? It isn't going to stop fans feeling angry and dejected after a dire performance, nor wanting to make their feelings known to the team.

If we are going to simply tell fans not to feel angry nor voice their displeasure in the immediate aftermath of a terrible display, then why don't we go one step further and simply tell the players not to perform terribly in the first place? Problem solved, no need for anyone to boo ever again, right?! 

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I swore audibly when Hanley and McLean both got pickpocketed toward the end of the game. That wasn't super supportive in that moment, so guess I'm not a supporter of NCFC either then? 

And presumably also under your definition, anyone who neither boo'd nor clapped at the end is also not a supporter? 

Or maybe these brief moments are overridden by the fact I spent the vast majority of the game well behind the players, clapping and cheering and encouraging wherever I could? 

Why does the 0.1% of the match define those people as opposed to the remainder which was good? I thought the crowd on Saturday was generally lively and positive, and as best as could be expected given the circumstances. 

As Monty said earlier, you and badger are getting far too obsessed with the semantics of the word and not considering what it really means in the real world. Very few fans spend 100% of their second of their time visibly supporting the club, I barely noticed anyone clapping at the end around where I was standing on Saturday - presumably no supporters near me at Carrow Road!

Its like saying you're not a chef because you don't spent 100% of your time cooking dinners!!

We all get angry/frustrated with things that happen on the pitch and are disappointed when we lose, possibly even angry if we think the team has been weak - as even farke suggested they were in the last few minutes - so that is not showing anything other than supporters experiencing the ups and downs and emotions of watching a game.  Everyone understands emotions and that is why we get into football in the first place - but booing is on a different level - it is directing your angst at someone else, be it the manager or the players - it is targeted and counter productive - ask any player or any manager. 

I could understand it a bit more if there was no hope, no prospect of improving etc etc - but there is - and that is why I find it so strange that these people don't understand.  We had two players who are new to the club and several very young players who haven't had much time in the PL yet - so what do they expect?  A walkover over the upstarts of Watford - who for comparison had a settled £27 million player?  We have the prospect of seeing improvement and some excellent play happening this season as we start to get to grips with the league and the players become more atuned to each other. 

So they are unhappy at the moment, boo hoo, so are we all, but we don't go around booing things because we are unhappy.  For one thing it achieves nothing. Zilch. All it does is create bad feeling - a negative that we don't need when we are trying to fight against the odds in such a campaign as this PL season is.  So they may be booing for other reasons too - maybe they can't stand the fact that we are trying to be a self-sustaining club and that we can't buy the likes of player like Sarr and others - but then that is something else and should be kept away from matches where 100% support is needed.

Whatever it is, it is counter productive.  A negative - and negatives are not good for any football club. They won't get it, they won't understand it, they'll carry on with booing no doubt and the rest of us will have to get used to it, I just hope it doesn't spoil what prospects we have of producing a team that is capable of staying up.  I would agree with the booers that things don't look good at the moment, but my idea of support is just that - you support through thick and thin and to me it is feeble minded to boo your own players/manager/club when things get a bit tough only five games in to the season.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

to me it is feeble minded to boo your own players/manager/club when things get a bit tough only five games in to the season.

No less feeble minded than our own defending on Saturday, I'd say!

I don't disagree with a lot of what you write, and I'm sure lots of people booing are aware that they aren't having a positive impact but are too caught up in the moment. It isn't really possible to just expect other people to think, feel and react how you do, @canarydan23 said that he felt much better for having boo'd at the final whistle. Clearly he experienced a different reaction to what you did, I don't think that makes him a better or worse supporter than you or anyone else to be honest. 

I also don't think booing at the end of the game is the worst, the players have time to reflect on the performance and the initial 'heat of the moment' reaction they might have experienced has passed. You can guarantee that all will be forgiven come kick off tonight in the crowd and the fans will be right behind the team again. 

If the crowd were booing the players during the game I'd definitely be more inclined to agree, but anyone at the match knew the crowd were as good as could be expected. In the end the performance was far far below par. 

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

We had two players who are new to the club and several very young players who haven't had much time in the PL yet - so what do they expect?  A walkover over the upstarts of Watford - who for comparison had a settled £27 million player? 

And sorry but I will not accept any bigging up of Watford. 

We finished 6 points ahead of them last season, were it not for our post promotion celebrations and hangover (particularly in the second Watford game) then we'd have probably doubled that advantage. 

Prior to Saturday, they were the only side in the PL showing form arguably worse than our own after the opening 45 minutes of the season. They hadn't registered a goal during that time in far easier fixtures than our own, yet they score 3 goals against us and easily could've had more were it not for Krul and some fortunate near misses.

We talk about our disruption and freely excuse our own team, but they made 11 first team signings and had 5 of those signings in the starting 11, compared to our 6. Why didn't they totally capitulate like we did?

Look I agreed with you earlier on a separate thread that with Kabak and Normann now in the team, the worst of our teething issues should be over - and there are genuine reasons why we may have performed below par so far this season - but that was simply a totally unacceptable performance, far outside the realms of the legitimate excuses. 

 

Edited September 21, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[sgncfc 1,221]

2 hours ago, Monty13 said:

At the risk of starting a new argument can I just pickup on this point SG.

If you are so dejected you stop doing any active supporting, or you walk out for instance.

Isn’t the difference between someone who does that and someone who stays to the end to boo a bit semantic?

I totally understand why people don’t like booing, but people show dissatisfaction in different ways.

Its not like the players and staff didn’t notice the lack of support or the swiftly growing number of empty seats after their third. The added time announcement was greeted with virtual silence not a roar.

 

Yep, fair point. I guess total silence is as bad as a loud boo!

[Badger 2,405]

15 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

And I'm sure you can find 100s more quotes of players and managers saying that booing isn't helpful. But what does that actually prove?

What it actually proves is that it is not helpful and makes things worse - you have acknowledged this but others have not. Jim, for example, thinks that it will force Farke to try to sort out the defence -as if he wasn't trying to do this anyway .🤯

16 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

It isn't going to stop fans feeling angry and dejected after a dire performance, nor wanting to make their feelings known to the team.

Obviously it isn't going to stop fans being dejected, but many people are able to control their emotions as part of trying to be supportive: I don't think players give away soft goals deliberately and we are, I think, both agreed that booing doesn't help and damages confidence and therefore likely to make things worse rather than better.

I don't think that you say it directly, and I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I think that you are saying that the booing fans can't control themselves, which isn't normally considered to be a good excuse - I can't think of many circumstances where it is seen as acceptable mitigation.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

49 minutes ago, Badger said:

What it actually proves is that it is not helpful and makes things worse - you have acknowledged this but others have not. Jim, for example, thinks that it will force Farke to try to sort out the defence -as if he wasn't trying to do this anyway .🤯

Obviously it isn't going to stop fans being dejected, but many people are able to control their emotions as part of trying to be supportive: I don't think players give away soft goals deliberately and we are, I think, both agreed that booing doesn't help and damages confidence and therefore likely to make things worse rather than better.

I don't think that you say it directly, and I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I think that you are saying that the booing fans can't control themselves, which isn't normally considered to be a good excuse - I can't think of many circumstances where it is seen as acceptable mitigation.

Do you keep being supportive if we continue to lose game after game?

Loyalty is one thing, naivety is another.

[TIL 1010 4,722]

I have not boooooooooooed yet but after these last two games it is getting pretty close so a long trip to Goodison on Saturday had better put that thought out of my mind but somehow with Everton not at their best i feel another along come Norwich game unfolding therefore It could be the game for my first boo of the season.

[Midlands Yellow 3,934]

1 minute ago, TIL 1010 said:

I have not boooooooooooed yet but after these last two games it is getting pretty close so a long trip to Goodison on Saturday had better put that thought out of my mind but somehow with Everton not at their best i feel another along come Norwich game unfolding therefore It could be the game for my first boo of the season.

And definitely your prerogative too. Hopefully it won’t come to that but all travelling fans are investing a lot of money, time and effort. 

[robert choice 24]

This paranoia about booing the team has a direct link to not chastising a lazy/disobedient child. Left alone it will simply carry on.

 

Taking away their Xbox or PS usually brings results, so maybe that is the answer.

[ricardo 7,345]

12 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I have not boooooooooooed yet but after these last two games it is getting pretty close so a long trip to Goodison on Saturday had better put that thought out of my mind but somehow with Everton not at their best i feel another along come Norwich game unfolding therefore It could be the game for my first boo of the season.

A bit of practice in the back garden is surely needed before you set off.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

Imagine living in Bootle.....The insufferable badgering you'd get with that?.....

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Could we perhaps change to Harry Secombe Raspberries? What what what

 

Edited September 22, 2021 by keelansgrandad

[Highland Canary 76]

Defeat by Everton and Burnley, which is certainly possible, and, arguably, probable given the last two fiascos we have witnessed, take us to another ‘must win’ game against Brighton, at least if our ‘ambition’ remains to stay up. Lose that match too and, I suspect, whatever the thread above suggests, the boos will be ringing around ‘FCR’ to the extent at least that (m)any are left in the stands. 

[Jimmy Raggatip 59]

I went in the bakers at lunchtime and they were out of sausage rolls, so I loudly booed the two poor women behind the till for their shoddy performance

 

it was then when I realised what a feeble and pathetic act booing is

[Naturalcynic 628]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

I went in the bakers at lunchtime and they were out of sausage rolls, so I loudly booed the two poor women behind the till for their shoddy performance

 

it was then when I realised what a feeble and pathetic act booing is

Except, of course, you didn’t.

That said, if every time you went in they didn’t have any sausage rolls then you’d probably start to question their ability to run a bakery at the highest level.  

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, Jimmy Raggatip said:

I went in the bakers at lunchtime and they were out of sausage rolls, so I loudly booed the two poor women behind the till for their shoddy performance

it was then when I realised what a feeble and pathetic act booing is

And when you do successfully get a sausage roll from the bakery, do you start clapping, cheering and singing about how good their sausage rolls are (or how **** the Ipswich sausage rolls are)? 

Or would that also be totally ridiculous and socially inappropriate?

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

21 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

And when you do successfully get a sausage roll from the bakery, do you start clapping, cheering and singing about how good their sausage rolls are (or how **** the Ipswich sausage rolls are)? 

Or would that also be totally ridiculous and socially inappropriate?

Next time I'm working in Ipswich I'm definitely standing outside Greggs shouting "you're just a **** Greggs in Ipswich"...... 

[Badger 2,405]

On 21/09/2021 at 15:52, Kenny Foggo said:

If only people got as worked up by appalling defending as they did with a little booing...

They do - but because they don't boo, you don't know it! 😉

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Naturalcynic said:

That said, if every time you went in they didn’t have any sausage rolls then you’d probably start to question their ability to run a bakery at the highest level.  

Depends  what time he went in - if it was one minute before closing, it could be regarded as excellent stock control and eliminating waste which of course, comes off the bottom line!

[Naturalcynic 628]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Depends  what time he went in - if it was one minute before closing, it could be regarded as excellent stock control and eliminating waste which of course, comes off the bottom line!

Sadly, despite being in the sausage roll business, no sausage rolls have yet been made, let alone sold.

[Badger 2,405]

7 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Do you keep being supportive if we continue to lose game after game?

Loyalty is one thing, naivety is another.

Yes, I would carry on being supportive and never boo the players if we lose game after game and I have always done so. There have been some pretty desperate times - but that's what makes the good times, so good.

Why is that naïve? I've learnt that people don't like the meaning of words, but how else do you understand...?

Google search - Loyalty - noun - a strong feeling of support or allegiance.

I know, I have a strong feeling of allegiance and am supportive, so I can see loyal. (Although I appreciate that a few might not like the all of the definition)

Google search - naivety - noun - lack of experience, wisdom, or judgement

Certainly not inexperienced as a fan and I think that that the evidence is absolutely plain that booing damages a teams performance so I judge it wise to restrain myself. So I don't think this applies.

I know I am marking my own homework, but I think the former applies but the latter doesn't. 

[Badger 2,405]

11 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Sadly, despite being in the sausage roll business, no sausage rolls have yet been made, let alone sold.

That would truly be a sausage roll business in difficulty!

[FCC 76]

I thought the silence acceptance was worse yesterday.  It was almost an acknowledgment that you’ve done your best, but you’re nowhere near good enough, and we all know it.  No point in chanting, or booing, the outcome is inevitable.

[Mello Yello 2,280]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

That would truly be a sausage roll business in difficulty!

Nothing could be wurst.....

[Ken Hairy 3,759]

So the moral of the story, real fans don't boo and love a good sausage roll.... 

[BigGrantsTash 70]

I only Boo when we win. Winning is for losers and tories. 

[shefcanary 2,385]

I still say there is a big difference between booing a player during the match (unless their name is Booth or Boot 😉 ) and a loud boo after the final whistle to show dissatisfaction for a collective poor display.  And nothing anyone else says will change my mind.

This is despite the fact I booed at the end of a boring 0-0 draw at the Nou Camp, Barca v Villareal.  The locals all started to harangue me.  Until they realised I was English and told me the way to express your displeasure was to wave a white hanky around in the air!  So should I do that instead?

Edited September 22, 2021 by shefcanary