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Booing is and always will be tin-pot

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There comes a time when booing is justified and I can think of several of those during the Chase era and if you haven't  got a cushion to throw its probably the best option.

The last time I can remember booing was the game before Chris Hughton got the push. That was enough to make my cat boo and it was clearly the correct response.

 Personally I can't  see anything to boo about this season, the effort is plainly there, we just happen to be in a league where it is now more difficult for a club like us to succeed. I am disappointed  that we aren't  better but not entirely surprised and if I wanted Farke out I might be tempted to boo but I don't  and I don't  believe  there is anyone  out there who could do better.

The last 15 years have seen some of the most exciting seasons in my supporting lifetime and I'm  grateful for that. Establishment in the Premier League may now be beyond a club of our financial standing. It is what it is but it isn't  yet time to boo.

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

If winning is so important it is a highly logical suggestion - we have established the those that boo are not supporters just customers, so why not go where their customer needs are more likely to be satisfied?

We haven’t established anything of the sort and to suggest so shows a complete disregard for others viewpoints. You are basically saying those dissatisfied who felt the desire to boo aren’t real supporters and that’s incredibly disrespectful in my opinion, certainly more disrespectful than a few seconds of boo.

Simply “winning” isn’t the complaint people are making and you know it. They aren’t booing because we lost one match, or even 5.

Supporters have a right to voice their opinions, they be different to yours, guess what diversity of opinions is a good thing.

 

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Because none of us are different Double N. We just use our hypocrisy to suit our needs. And of course, many of us cannot go.

Grant Hanley's parentage was called into question many times by myself during the game. I like the chap but when he makes a mess of it during a game, my esteem for him is tested.

I cannot believe the question of booing is so important. Ever since I I went to my first game in 1960, booing, whether its the ref, the opposition or even NCFC, was accepted as a harmless, even comical. Blimey, I even remember Charlie Wright, the jovial Charlton keeper booing me for wearing a hat with Keelan Supreme on it.

Why everyone has to be surprised that there are differing views about anything to do with NCFC is beyond me.

Definitely part of being at the game. Comical and the source of many great memories. My points are never about people who can't or won't go. 

If you think back to the sixties there was an even bigger divide between supporters who went and those who didn't go. Back then we felt we could influence the game by getting behind the team booing the ref etc. But now I think that gap is practically closed. Partly because of streams being readily available and the amount of football on tv. And partly because this coupled by the comfort in the stadium screens and wifi the supporters in there are fast becoming critics too. 

Both in the stadium and in the armchair most now look for a performance to that deserves support rather than supporting in hope the performance follows.

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Some Gippeswyk fans , enjoying a first win, would look to savour our result, but  it’s not the result that would add icing to the cake is it? It’s the knowledge that despite unprecedented recent success and exciting times in Norfolk some of the fans are already turning against the team/manager (5 games into a season!). 
 

if we turn out not to be good enough for this division then all the boo army can look back on their contributions over the season. 

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Just now, Monty13 said:

We haven’t established anything of the sort and to suggest so shows a complete disregard for others viewpoints. You are basically saying those dissatisfied who felt the desire to boo aren’t real supporters and that’s incredibly disrespectful in my opinion, certainly more disrespectful than a few seconds of boo.

Simply “winning” isn’t the complaint people are making and you know it. They aren’t booing because we lost one match, or even 5.

Supporters have a right to voice their opinions, they be different to yours, guess what diversity of opinions is a good thing.

 

People that boo are not supporters - that is not a "viewpoint" it is a fact: please look it up. They can, of course, boo if they wish but it is childish, damaging and shows an inability to control themselves.

I am not disrespectful of the people, many of them I'm sure are otherwise quite pleasant, but it would be foolish to respect their actions. Again, as customers they would be better served elsewhere.

Diversity of opinions is not always a good thing, but the right to have diverse opinions is. Everyone, of course, has a right to their own opinions, no matter how uninformed they may be. I don't object in the least that you wish to defend dissatisfied customers - but I do think that they would be happier at another club, or possibly a more reliable form of entertainment.

Additionally, I think that instead of defending dissatisfied customers you might give extra consideration to supporters of the club and the welfare of the team itself.

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6 minutes ago, Badger said:

People that boo are not supporters - that is not a "viewpoint" it is a fact: please look it up. They can, of course, boo if they wish but it is childish, damaging and shows an inability to control themselves.

I am not disrespectful of the people, many of them I'm sure are otherwise quite pleasant, but it would be foolish to respect their actions. Again, as customers they would be better served elsewhere.

Diversity of opinions is not always a good thing, but the right to have diverse opinions is. Everyone, of course, has a right to their own opinions, no matter how uninformed they may be. I don't object in the least that you wish to defend dissatisfied customers - but I do think that they would be happier at another club, or possibly a more reliable form of entertainment.

Additionally, I think that instead of defending dissatisfied customers you might give extra consideration to supporters of the club and the welfare of the team itself.

Bonkers...

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

People that boo are not supporters - that is not a "viewpoint" it is a fact: please look it up. They can, of course, boo if they wish but it is childish, damaging and shows an inability to control themselves.

I am not disrespectful of the people, many of them I'm sure are otherwise quite pleasant, but it would be foolish to respect their actions. Again, as customers they would be better served elsewhere.

Diversity of opinions is not always a good thing, but the right to have diverse opinions is. Everyone, of course, has a right to their own opinions, no matter how uninformed they may be. I don't object in the least that you wish to defend dissatisfied customers - but I do think that they would be happier at another club, or possibly a more reliable form of entertainment.

Additionally, I think that instead of defending dissatisfied customers you might give extra consideration to supporters of the club and the welfare of the team itself.

No it’s not a fact, keep saying it but it’s not. We all know what the word supporter means but using the English language definition of a single word to define something more specific and established in its use of that word is an argument completely built on sand. 

There is nowhere I know of that suggests there is a ratified definition of what it means to be a football supporter of a club. Or that to be one you must do so unequivocally at all times regardless if it’s during the match or not. One boo, especially after the whistle is blown, doesn’t suddenly strip you of being one, no matter how hard you try to make out it does.

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Just now, corbs said:

Some Gippeswyk fans , enjoying a first win, would look to savour our result, but  it’s not the result that would add icing to the cake is it? It’s the knowledge that despite unprecedented recent success and exciting times in Norfolk some of the fans are already turning against the team/manager (5 games into a season!). 
 

if we turn out not to be good enough for this division then all the boo army can look back on their contributions over the season. 

It has ever been this. The people that react negatively so readily are always in denial that they have anything to do with the fortunes of the club - and on top of that, they think that because they are such great fans and cheer and get behind us when we are doing well that they help the team with that. But you can't have one without the other.

If you are affecting the team well when you cheer, you are affecting the team badly when you boo or jeer, but those that so readily resort to booing want it all ways at once. They can never be wrong and that is the shame of it - they feel they have the right to react how they want, but it is usually to the detriment of the team. 

Cue someone now who will say "fans don't affect what happens on the pitch".  Well they do.  The next step will be booing during matches (it started yesterday with boos at Sargent's substituion, despite the very valid reasons for taking him off at that point) and then things do start to get very difficult for everyone on and off the pitch.

The answer lies with the players and Farke to turn it round and start being more resilient and effective. But the fans can be a part of that and the more people that get behind the team in adversity the more likely they will be able to help the guys out there on the pitch. Booing - is not the answer.

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35 minutes ago, Badger said:

People that boo are not supporters - that is not a "viewpoint" it is a fact:

 

No it is not a fact it  is your opinion.

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29 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Bonkers...

It is precisely the sort of clearly thought out and intelligent argument that I would expect! 😃 When you can't deal with the logic, you excrete abuse.

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2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

No it is not a fact it  is your opinion.

Honestly TIL it is a fact, not an opinion.

supporter
noun
a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc.

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3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Honestly TIL it is a fact, not an opinion.

supporter
noun
a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc.

Whatever are you on about Badger or have i had a senior moment with regard to booing ?

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Speaking of booing, quite some booing from the Spurs fans there, quite remarkable considering, with no exaggeration, about 75% of them left before the final whistle. 

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48 minutes ago, Badger said:

People that boo are not supporters - that is not a "viewpoint" it is a fact: please look it up. They can, of course, boo if they wish but it is childish, damaging and shows an inability to control themselves.

I am not disrespectful of the people, many of them I'm sure are otherwise quite pleasant, but it would be foolish to respect their actions. Again, as customers they would be better served elsewhere.

Diversity of opinions is not always a good thing, but the right to have diverse opinions is. Everyone, of course, has a right to their own opinions, no matter how uninformed they may be. I don't object in the least that you wish to defend dissatisfied customers - but I do think that they would be happier at another club, or possibly a more reliable form of entertainment.

Additionally, I think that instead of defending dissatisfied customers you might give extra consideration to supporters of the club and the welfare of the team itself.

Self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap.

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32 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

No it’s not a fact, keep saying it but it’s not. We all know what the word supporter means

...Do you? Define support and a supporter to prove it.

I'm sure if you  look long and hard enough you may find some anomalous definition that you will try to build an argument upon, but anybody with a modicum of intellectual honesty knows that a supporter is one who supports. Booing does not support, it is an undermining and critical behaviour and not a supportive one.

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Just now, Badger said:

...Do you? Define support and a supporter to prove it.

I'm sure if you  look long and hard enough you may find some anomalous definition that you will try to build an argument upon, but anybody with a modicum of intellectual honesty knows that a supporter is one who supports. Booing does not support, it is an undermining and critical behaviour and not a supportive one.

And I’ll repeat my position as you chose to completely ignore it. That is what the word supporter means.

It does nothing to suggest that a football supporter is required to be universally supportive of the club outside of the team actively playing. You are basically saying as a supporter you must be universally supportive of the club and its actions or you aren’t a supporter.

So all the people who criticised the BK8 deal arent supporters then?

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2 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

Whatever are you on about Badger or have i had a senior moment with regard to booing ?

You said that my statement that supporters don't boo was an opinion not a fact. I was just showing you the definition of a supporter. In simple terms it is one who supports but I provided you with a dictionary definition. 

supporter - noun  - a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc

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57 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Definitely part of being at the game. Comical and the source of many great memories. My points are never about people who can't or won't go. 

If you think back to the sixties there was an even bigger divide between supporters who went and those who didn't go. Back then we felt we could influence the game by getting behind the team booing the ref etc. But now I think that gap is practically closed. Partly because of streams being readily available and the amount of football on tv. And partly because this coupled by the comfort in the stadium screens and wifi the supporters in there are fast becoming critics too. 

Both in the stadium and in the armchair most now look for a performance to that deserves support rather than supporting in hope the performance follows.

We have seen our club play some of the most technically gifted football bar none, in recent seasons. It goes with the fashion, stadia, lifestyle of the modern game.

Support goes without saying. And no doubt we have collected some support that would not have followed in previous years. Prawn sandwich anyone? 

Yes we are looking for performance as much as result while many are still more concerned with results. Two out of the last three seasons have provided both.

It is difficult to reconcile that at the moment and two years ago we very rarely provided either.

In other words, our expectations are higher.

 

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Cue someone now who will say "fans don't affect what happens on the pitch".  
 

The support during the game yesterday was excellent, so according to that we should have won.

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6 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap.

Reasonable vocabulary but you don't seem to understand the words.  Additionally there is a complete complete absence of reasoning, logic or content.

Name calling is a similar type of activity to booing, and equally childish.

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Just now, Badger said:

Reasonable vocabulary but you don't seem to understand the words.  Additionally there is a complete complete absence of reasoning, logic or content.

Name calling is a similar type of activity to booing, and equally childish.

As I said, self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap from someone with a track record of spouting self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap.

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14 minutes ago, Badger said:

...Do you? Define support and a supporter to prove it.

I'm sure if you  look long and hard enough you may find some anomalous definition that you will try to build an argument upon, but anybody with a modicum of intellectual honesty knows that a supporter is one who supports. Booing does not support, it is an undermining and critical behaviour and not a supportive one.

It can sometimes remind the powers that be that things are not well and will not be tolerated  much longer. I considered my booing of Hughton an act of support for my club insofar that it helped encourage the directors to sack him.

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7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

And I’ll repeat my position as you chose to completely ignore it. That is what the word supporter means.

It does nothing to suggest that a football supporter is required to be universally supportive of the club outside of the team actively playing. You are basically saying as a supporter you must be universally supportive of the club and its actions or you aren’t a supporter.

So all the people who criticised the BK8 deal arent supporters then?

What is what the word supporter means - you are not repeating it - you haven't ever stated what it means only that you know.

"You are basically saying as a supporter you must be universally supportive of the club"

I'm just pointing out what the word means, it is not an argument. Don't you recognise the irony of what you have said - you are saying that "a supporter has to be supportive." Well, that is what the word means...

With regards "universal" I'm not sure that this is necessary - it certainly doesn't appear in any definition that I have seen. I think that the word supporter does require a person who has such an epithet to be supportive and never undermining and destructive of the thing that they are supposed to support.

"So all the people who criticised the BK8 deal arent supporters then?" Of course they are. They responded in an appropriate way. I posted above about about legitimate expressions of dissatisfaction and several of these were deployed. They did not boo the team or try to undermine it, but reminded the management of the clubs values. It seems that owners agreed with the supporters rather than the managers, which clearly annoyed Webber. I would see it as a textbook example of how supporters can raise matters of concern without damaging the team that they support.

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17 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

As I said, self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap from someone with a track record of spouting self-righteous, opinionated, sanctimonious claptrap.

And as I said:

17 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

Reasonable vocabulary but you don't seem to understand the words.  Additionally there is a complete complete absence of reasoning, logic or content.

Name calling is a similar type of activity to booing, and equally childish.

 

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40 minutes ago, Badger said:

It is precisely the sort of clearly thought out and intelligent argument that I would expect! 😃 When you can't deal with the logic, you excrete abuse.

Not abusing you at all my friend.. just think that the "customers" / " supporters" argument is bonkers. I don't know you so I make no judgement.  people support Norwich City, if they feel the custodians of the club are not doing their jobs they are free to express that frustration / annoyance. They are as much a supporter as you and me.

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2 minutes ago, Badger said:

What is what the word supporter means - you are not repeating it - you haven't ever stated what it means only that you know.

"You are basically saying as a supporter you must be universally supportive of the club"

I'm just pointing out what the word means, it is not an argument. Don't you recognise the irony of what you have said - you are saying that "a supporter has to be supportive." Well, that is what the word means...

With regards "universal" I'm not sure that this is necessary - it certainly doesn't appear in any definition that I have seen. I think that the word supporter does require a person who has such an epithet to be supportive and never undermining and destructive of the thing that they are supposed to support.

"So all the people who criticised the BK8 deal arent supporters then?" Of course they are. They responded in an appropriate way. I posted above about about legitimate expressions of dissatisfaction and several of these were deployed. They did not boo the team or try to undermine it, but reminded the management of the clubs values. It seems that owners agreed with the supporters rather than the managers, which clearly annoyed Webber. I would see it as a textbook example of how supporters can raise matters of concern without damaging the team that they support.

So if it is ok to be critical of the club and not universally supportive as a supporter, the point at which that is ok becomes subjective and is not in fact a fact like you were making out.

In my opinion that criticism should wait until after the whistle has gone and the team is no longer playing, which people did. Your opinion obviously differs, but it’s just an opinion.

 

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33 minutes ago, Badger said:

You said that my statement that supporters don't boo was an opinion not a fact. I was just showing you the definition of a supporter. In simple terms it is one who supports but I provided you with a dictionary definition. 

supporter - noun  - a person who approves of and encourages a public figure, political party, policy, etc

In this situation, a legislator may vote against her party to signal to supporters that the party's position is not radical enough.

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Have to say it's been a long long while since I heard substitutions booed, and possibly never heard them after just 5 games.

This may not end well and Farke has already got a bit arsey over the Rupp moanings, the boos will not have gone down well.

Never a dull moment at NCFC!

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51 minutes ago, ricardo said:

It can sometimes remind the powers that be that things are not well and will not be tolerated  much longer. I considered my booing of Hughton an act of support for my club insofar that it helped encourage the directors to sack him.

A good argument and gve me need to reflect - about the only one that has been made tbh. I can see that if the booing was done with a constructive end in mind, it could fit within the definition of being supportive - "cruel to be kind/ tough love" kind of thing. In these circumstances, I would be happy to concede the point, although with some reluctance as it means that others with far less integrity than yourself will use it to justify their actions.

TBH, I'm not sure that many of yesterday's booers were making a considered point that they wish to replace the manager and I really can't see that it was in anyway supportive and helpful - particularly with a group of young players, many from abroad, who are likely to be nervous and short of confidence. I suspect that they were mainly man-children with a lack of self-restraint. 

With your earlier point about Robert Chase, my recollection is that we made a big point of only criticisinghase and not the players - Chase Out, Chase Out etc + didn't we do it mainly after games - I can remember standing outside the main stand with thousands chanting it.

+ Your other point about our future - I am far more optimistic than you about our chances to be "established" in the PL (obviously depends upon how you define it). We have been performing above our average level for four years now + have strengthened the playing squad + made radical improvements to our training facilities. Several of our rival clubs are saddled with debt and will really struggle when the inevitable relegation comes about. Staying up is important of course, not least because each place is worth 2.5 million, so at 16th (my prediction) we would be £10 million richer + able to build upon foundations. It is frustrating atm, but the long term future is good as long as we don't panic.

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