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lake district canary

Booing is and always will be tin-pot

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1 hour ago, Fiery Zac said:

Haven’t ignored anything from the PL last time and was very vocal about it. Yesterday was unacceptable and my dissatisfaction shown but not by childish, cowardly booing.

Very few had the disrupted pre season we had. In PL round ups it was us and Newcastle that were mentioned as being the worst affected, not quite every other club.

The improvement in defence and philosophy was clearly there to see throughout the whole of last season. Even if you weren’t watching, have a look at the stats.

Buendia is a massive loss obviously but wanted to leave over a year ago. No blame on the club for getting him to stay to get us promoted and then using his sale to fund the numerous signings we now have.

Skipp isn’t pulling up any trees at Spurs and the pundits/fans of theirs aren’t expecting him to remain in the team. He had an excellent season in the championship - the very league you tell me to ignore and isn’t important!

It was the model that was set up that allowed the Maddison sale to happen. Invest in young talent, be self funded. Yes, again  mistakes were made but they brought in the right people to get us to where we are - living as well as possible within our means.

This 15 games stuff is getting boring. Different, unprepared team then as has been acknowledged. Judge on this team that we’re told is ready to establish itself. If it fails and continues to be as inept as yesterday, I’ll be criticising as loudly as anybody.

Good ol hindsight. Kabak wasn’t ‘clearly not fit’ and that’s purely a reaction to the loss talking. He looked good at bringing the ball out of defence and is a strong presence. Costly mistake but when exactly should be be brought into the team? Obviously seen as potential first choice and with PL experience, wasn’t at all a suspect call.

Really good post. Shame @Kenny Foggo wasn't willing to read it all through and reply sensibly after recently telling me how to post.

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1 hour ago, Mello Yello said:

It's the fan's fault and the blame falls squarely at our feet......Not everyone brought their scarves to the party......Shambles.....Whatever the result at full-time we should all remain seated and applaud, smile and all cheer with exuberance and gusto, like a regimental North Korean rent-a-crowd.....

Those that have the infantile audacity to boo or show abject discontent and don't comply.....should be whisked away, never to be seen again....

Let’s have some of this after the next embarrassing performance. 
 

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2 hours ago, Kenny Foggo said:

 

Always having at go at our fans is poor and "rubbish"

Unless of course you are Webber or hogesar. 😜

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

'These over emotional oiks have offended my delicate sensibilities by booing, I think they should rethink if they are proper supporters like me.' 

Following a football club is rooted in emotions. Expecting fans to be fully rational and do a cost benefit analysis of if their reaction is going to help longer term is unrealistic. 

I bet you the players have heard significantly worse than a bit of booing after an abject performance. People who claim their objection to it is based on players feelings are just trying to hide its their own delicate feelings that have been hurt. As I said, performative pearl clutching at its finest. 

I'm afraid this is tilting at windmills KC - you are imagining a foe that doesn't exist, as what you have said is totally fictional representation of what has been said. Your comments show more about your imagination than any understanding of the feelings of those who find booing childish. Yes football is emotional, but we are taught at a young age to control our more damaging emotions.

1. If you can, produce some evidence that booing teenagers and players in their early 20s enhances their performance.

2. If you can, point to how our performance improved after the substitutes were booed.

3. If you can, provide credible evidence that "People who claim their objection to it is based on players feelings are just trying to hide its their own delicate feelings that have been hurt."

I very much doubt that you will because none exists that I am aware of: but who needs evidence heh? 

Finally, people who boo their own team are not supporters: this is not an opinion it is simple fact. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Badger said:

1. If you can, produce some evidence that booing teenagers and players in their early 20s enhances their performance.

Never claimed it did. 

 

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

2. If you can, point to how our performance improved after the substitutes were booed.

Never claimed it did. 

4 minutes ago, Badger said:

3. If you can, provide credible evidence that "People who claim their objection to it is based on players feelings are just trying to hide its their own delicate feelings that have been hurt."

Of course i cant prove it, its my opinion though and your response isn't really changing my view. 

So you've asked me to evidence two things I've never claimed and the factually back up what is clearly an opinion. And I'm tilting at windmills? 

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Just now, king canary said:

Never claimed it did. 

 

Never claimed it did. 

Of course i cant prove it, its my opinion though and your response isn't really changing my view. 

So you've asked me to evidence two things I've never claimed and the factually back up what is clearly an opinion. And I'm tilting at windmills? 

Well if you accept that booing harms rather helps performance of players and that supporters don't boo their team, I don't know why you are debating it?

With regards changing your opinion, I would argue that it is impossible to change the view of anyone who forms that opinion without any credible evidence.

Regrettably, "I think it, therefore it's true" is not an uncommon process in many walks of life and, of course, the source of most prejudice.

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3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Well if you accept that booing harms rather helps performance of players and that supporters don't boo their team, I don't know why you are debating it?

With regards changing your opinion, I would argue that it is impossible to change the view of anyone who forms that opinion without any credible evidence.

Regrettably, "I think it, therefore it's true" is not an uncommon process in many walks of life and, of course, the source of most prejudice.

I dont accept supporters don't boo their team. I accept you clearly do but I think your sense of moral superiority is misplaced. 

Booing subs I agree is dumb- as others have mentioned we don't have enough info to judge why a sub is being made. Booing in game isnt something I'd do. However as a cathartic release at the end of a game after an abject performance? Doesn't make you less of a supoorter in my book. 

As I said, football is an emotional game for fans so you'll get emotional reactions both positive and negative. Always has been, always will be. If you don't like that then I suggest you're following the wrong sport. 

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17 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Accept I don't go to CR much, but when I did, as i used to, I would have said the same thing. Booing should be a last resort, not a first resort. 

When does it become a last resort? When we are down with a whimper. You don’t even have to be very knowledgeable in football to see where this season is going. It’s pathetic and getting worse every time we go up!

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2 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

When does it become a last resort? When we are down with a whimper. You don’t even have to be very knowledgeable in football to see where this season is going. It’s pathetic and getting worse every time we go up!

When LDC decides of course.

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3 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

Haven’t ignored anything from the PL last time and was very vocal about it. Yesterday was unacceptable and my dissatisfaction shown but not by childish, cowardly booing.

Can I just ask, how was it shown?

I see a lot of comments here about booing being unacceptable but I’m really unclear how people were meant to show dissatisfaction.

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8 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Can I just ask, how was it shown?

I see a lot of comments here about booing being unacceptable but I’m really unclear how people were meant to show dissatisfaction.

You can have one of the following options...

1- 3 medium volume tuts

2- a loud sigh

3- a mutter under your breath about 'a jolly poor showing.' 

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37 minutes ago, king canary said:

I dont accept supporters don't boo their team. I accept you clearly do but I think your sense of moral superiority is misplaced...

Sorry, KC whether or not you accept it, it is a simple statement of fact. Perhaps if you looked it up? They are customers not supporters. I'm not aware that being a supporter makes you morally any better than a customer though. I don't claim that I have any moral superiority.

As I said, football is an emotional game for fans so you'll get emotional reactions both positive and negative. Always has been, always will be. If you don't like that then I suggest you're following the wrong sport. 

I have been supporting Norwich for over and have seen things rather worse than booing - people of my age will confirm that at times it was physically frightening being a supporter, so I'm pretty sure my constitution will bear up to a few unhappy customers.

Re. negative emotions, most of us a trained to try to control these at a young age, although our prisons are populated by those that fail. I don't imagine you would, for example, justify someone hitting or verbally abusing a woman but their "defence" is often along the lines of "I saw red and I just lost control." Of course, I am not suggesting that the two things are of a similar scale or importance but they are of a similar type: failure to control themselves.

As a matter of interest, can you think of some examples when failing to control negative emotions is a good thing, because I can't think of any atm.

 

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23 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

I see a lot of comments here about booing being unacceptable but I’m really unclear how people were meant to show dissatisfaction.

Well in most walks of life, people:

1. Make a formal complaint

2. Cancel their custom

3. Write a letter (assuming that they can)

4. Make negative posts on social media

5. Seek alternative providers

6. Advise friends and relatives not to use the service.

7. Leave early

8. Leave bad reviews

9. Start a petition

There's 9 ways - I'm sure that there are many more. I'm surprised that you weren't aware of this.

If you someone standing in Sainsbury's and booing you might think they are an idiot, but at a football ground you seem to think it's admirable, even though it is almost certainly likely to make the situation worse rather than better. Curious!

Edited by Badger
Corrected grammar

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9 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

Jesus how low can you go? Comparing a mild bit of booing to assult or domestic violence? Get a ****ing grip. 

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

Well in most walks of life, people:

1. Make a formal complaint

2. Cancel their custom

3. Write a letter (assuming that they can)

4. Make negative posts on social media

5. Seek alternative providers

6. Advise friends and relatives not to use the service.

7. Leave early

8. Leave bad reviews

9. Start a petition

There's 9 ways - I'm sure that there are many more. I'm surprised that you weren't aware of this.

If you someone standing in Sainsbury's and booing you might think they are an idiot, but at a football ground you seem to think it's admirable, even though it is almost certainly likely to make the situation worse rather than better. Curious!

'Make a formal complaint?' 

Absolutely beyond parody at this point. 

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Demented cattle was an interesting observation...

But in truth it's always how us fans to various things we witness. I booed the ref when he was up close. Thats always been a thing. But pretty pointless now the ref doesn't make important decisions. Which probably means supporters in the stadium are pretty pointless. Last week I saw one of our resident club critics refer to us as "the audience" and booing your own team fits that description perfectly.

Out of interest how many fans who didn't go made cattle noises at their stream?

Edited by nutty nigel

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Really good post. Shame @Kenny Foggo wasn't willing to read it all through and reply sensibly after recently telling me how to post.

Your arrogance is endless. Why do you think Keith Scott singled you out?

You have a go at people who were unhappy with much of yesterday but will not accept their point of view just saying endlessly that DF knows better.

Yet you are quite happy to pontificate about the game that meets your point of view.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially those paying a lot of money for a seat.

I used to be happy reading your posts until you adopted this I'm right and you are wrong attitude.

Its a forum so that people like myself who is a fanatic despite my distance away from the City, to discuss all matters NCFC, good game or bad game.

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7 minutes ago, Badger said:

Well in most walks of life, people:

1. Make a formal complaint

2. Cancel their custom

3. Write a letter (assuming that they can)

4. Make negative posts on social media

5. Seek alternative providers

6. Advise friends and relatives not to use the service.

7. Leave early

8. Leave bad reviews

9. Start a petition

There's 9 ways - I'm sure that there are many more. I'm surprised that you weren't aware of this.

If you someone standing in Sainsbury's and booing you might think they are an idiot, but at a football ground you seem to think it's admirable, even though it is almost certainly likely to make the situation worse rather than better. Curious!

Why are any of these “better” than booing exactly? Seems a crazy amount of subjectiveness being thrown around like facts because some individuals feel booing is unacceptable for some reason.

Also I’m not sure how shopping in Sainsbury’s and watching a game of football are remotely comparable. 

Anyway I asked how the poster showed their dissatisfaction, I’m genuinely interested.

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7 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

Why are any of these “better” than booing exactly? Seems a crazy amount of subjectiveness being thrown around like facts because some individuals feel booing is unacceptable for some reason.

Also I’m not sure how shopping in Sainsbury’s and watching a game of football are remotely comparable. 

Anyway I asked how the poster showed their dissatisfaction, I’m genuinely interested.

Its also interesting that he's the one separating out supporters and customers while advising us all to act more like we're shopping in Sainsburys. 

'Seeking alternative providers' for instance would be very much the actions of a customer, yet is apparently preferable to booing.

Edited by king canary

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Demented cattle was an interesting observation...

But in truth it's always how us fans to various things we witness. I booed the ref when he was up close. Thats always been a thing. But pretty pointless now the ref doesn't make important decisions. Which probably means supporters in the stadium are pretty pointless. Last week I saw one of our resident club critics refer to us as "the audience" and booing your own team fits that description perfectly.

Out of interest how many fans who didn't go made cattle noises at their stream?

Because none of us are different Double N. We just use our hypocrisy to suit our needs. And of course, many of us cannot go.

Grant Hanley's parentage was called into question many times by myself during the game. I like the chap but when he makes a mess of it during a game, my esteem for him is tested.

I cannot believe the question of booing is so important. Ever since I I went to my first game in 1960, booing, whether its the ref, the opposition or even NCFC, was accepted as a harmless, even comical. Blimey, I even remember Charlie Wright, the jovial Charlton keeper booing me for wearing a hat with Keelan Supreme on it.

Why everyone has to be surprised that there are differing views about anything to do with NCFC is beyond me.

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Your arrogance is endless. Why do you think Keith Scott singled you out?

You have a go at people who were unhappy with much of yesterday but will not accept their point of view just saying endlessly that DF knows better.

Yet you are quite happy to pontificate about the game that meets your point of view.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially those paying a lot of money for a seat.

I used to be happy reading your posts until you adopted this I'm right and you are wrong attitude.

Its a forum so that people like myself who is a fanatic despite my distance away from the City, to discuss all matters NCFC, good game or bad game.

Keith Scott is an online forum troll, so if he's singled me out I'm clearly doing something right. He will not post for an entire season if we're doing well, i.e the Championship seasons. 

Again, if you can find one example where I've "had a go" at people who were "unhappy with much of yesterday", then by all means show me. From recollection i've criticised the performance, said I hold no grudges with those who decided to boo at the end, and said if we continue to concede those level of soft goals we'll be relegated.

That I'm capable of also being balanced in acknowledging that whilst the substitutions didn't work, it was clear Sargent was taken off because he was tired and would be risking injury, shouldn't really cause you to refer to me as arrogant.

The post you quoted, if you followed the thread, was because Kenny took issue with the style of my post, yet when @Fiery Zac spent the time to respond to him with an articulate and measured post, he basically said himself he couldn't be bothered to read it. I don't think it's fair to expect to have things both ways.

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4 hours ago, hogesar said:

Really good post. Shame @Kenny Foggo wasn't willing to read it all through and reply sensibly after recently telling me how to post.

Like I said when your posts deserve an adult reply you'll get it...

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1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

Your arrogance is endless. Why do you think Keith Scott singled you out?

You have a go at people who were unhappy with much of yesterday but will not accept their point of view just saying endlessly that DF knows better.

Yet you are quite happy to pontificate about the game that meets your point of view.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, especially those paying a lot of money for a seat.

I used to be happy reading your posts until you adopted this I'm right and you are wrong attitude.

Its a forum so that people like myself who is a fanatic despite my distance away from the City, to discuss all matters NCFC, good game or bad game.

Its all ok though he can have his say and act like he wants. I am sure he is a nicer bloke in real life... Its a forum I tend not to let small things bother me..

 

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32 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Keith Scott is an online forum troll, so if he's singled me out I'm clearly doing something right. He will not post for an entire season if we're doing well, i.e the Championship seasons. 

Again, if you can find one example where I've "had a go" at people who were "unhappy with much of yesterday", then by all means show me. From recollection i've criticised the performance, said I hold no grudges with those who decided to boo at the end, and said if we continue to concede those level of soft goals we'll be relegated.

That I'm capable of also being balanced in acknowledging that whilst the substitutions didn't work, it was clear Sargent was taken off because he was tired and would be risking injury, shouldn't really cause you to refer to me as arrogant.

The post you quoted, if you followed the thread, was because Kenny took issue with the style of my post, yet when @Fiery Zac spent the time to respond to him with an articulate and measured post, he basically said himself he couldn't be bothered to read it. I don't think it's fair to expect to have things both ways.

Using the words, ignorant, football blindness and moronic is having a go.

Your support cannot be questioned but you must also accept that many people want something different from you. Everyone has a different level of ecstasy or disappointment.

 

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1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Why are any of these “better” than booing exactly?

They are better than booing because several of them are more likely to produce a better outcome and none actually makes the situation worse.

Seems a crazy amount of subjectiveness being thrown around like facts because some individuals feel booing is unacceptable for some reason.

All present at the match had to accept it, whether or not they shared the sentiment, just the same as we have to accept the smell when others break wind or don't wash.

I didn't say booing was unacceptable: I said it was childish, detrimental rather than helpful and not something that a supporter would do. You said that there were no alternatives and I found several without any thought necessary.

Also I’m not sure how shopping in Sainsbury’s and watching a game of football are remotely comparable. 

For customers they are exactly the same - if you don't like what you are getting from a store you go somewhere else.

 

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5 hours ago, Fiery Zac said:

Fair enough, agree to disagree.batterie

Though I didn’t actually accuse you of booing - just saying I didn’t as this is the topic of the thread! No deflection at all as I fully answered all your points

Fair enough and unlike some you didn't resort to petty insults. Just burnt out arguing about a sub standard performance that clearly was not acceptable and the inevitable booing debate that always follows such a performance.

Four weeks until my next live game.. recharge the batteries and hope we are in a better place.

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13 minutes ago, Badger said:

 

When you are looking to make your feelings known about a football result I’m not sure I agree that what you have suggested are better personally, but that’s my opinion.

Except that isn’t analogous. If you don’t like the football you are seeing you can’t just go watch another team and to suggest so is ridiculous.

Edited by Monty13

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1 hour ago, king canary said:

Its also interesting that he's the one separating out supporters and customers while advising us all to act more like we're shopping in Sainsburys. 

'Seeking alternative providers' for instance would be very much the actions of a customer, yet is apparently preferable to booing.

No, not all just those customers that come to the ground when they are so clearly dissatisfied.

It seems to me to be supremely sensible advice for them to consider alternative provision: if they were to bless Liverpool or Man City with their custom, they would be more likely to find a product more to their satisfaction and less likely to risk their "negative emotions" becoming uncontrollable to cite the excuse you provided.

I don't know why you find it in any way remarkable - I'd have thought it blindingly obvious. My Dad supported Norwich from the 1940s, but stopped going under Ron Saunders, because he couldn't stand the football (even though we were successful). If customers can't stand a team losing, they could chose another team or better still perhaps give up competitive activities as there is always a loser - they could take up computer gaming as I understand that there are "cheats" that can be used to make sure that you always win!

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2 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

If you don’t like the football you are seeing you can’t just go watch another team and to suggest so is ridiculous.

If winning is so important it is a highly logical suggestion - we have established the those that boo are not supporters just customers, so why not go where their customer needs are more likely to be satisfied?

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