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Christoph Stiepermann

Changing our style of play

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I think it's obvious to most people now that playing this style of football with the quality of player we have in this league just doesn't work. The general consensus though seems to be that it's either a choice between attritional Burnley style football that gets results for inferior teams or Farke's brand of slow possession football that's easy on the eye and I don't agree that that's the case or that a change of approach means ripping up our core philosophies or breaks the model. 

 

There's a lot of scope between those two extremes and there is an approach to football that would suit the majority of our players, is exciting and fun for fans to watch and allows inferior teams to get results through hard work and disrupting the opposition. In this case it's switching to an attacking, high pressing game, similar to the one played by Huddersfield under Wagner or in more successful cases Hassenhutl at Southampton or Klopp at Liverpool. 

You have to work incredibly hard off the ball and try to suffocate the opposition high up the pitch which stops better teams from playing, you create a lot of chances which is good for fans to watch and I don't think it's beyond our current team or coaching staff to pull off, although we might need to replace Farke if he doesn't fancy it. Knowing our fanbase like I do I think we'd like it more than possession football as we like hard working players and I think we prefer exciting football with lots of chances more than pretty football that is technically impressive and with the added bonus of it suiting an inferior team which would actually help us pick up some results. 

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We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

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13 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

I think the masses of space we leave in dangerous areas has more to do with it, plus the fact we stand off and don't tackle. The defence is always caught in difficult positions which is why they make mistakes. I think we'd be better off pressing high so those mistakes aren't punished in such dangerous areas. Plus Hanley and Omobamidele are quick for CB's over longer distances and Aarons and Williams/Dimi have pace to burn so they could win the ball back if another team breaks our press. We sure as hell can't defend well in tight areas and Hanley is slow over a short distance so i don't think our current approach suits the defenders we have and I think this approach will help us across the team including in defence.  

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19 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

Do we not have a defensive coach? And if not, how many other teams in the PL don’t have one either?

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2 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Never mind the defence, we can't attack either. Bollexed at both ends.

That’s because whenever the opponent attacks, we have to have all 11 in our half. It’s so negative it’s unreal.

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23 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

Sorry but I find these type of comments a total nonsense. 

You have no idea how Farke coaches on the training ground. The idea that he doesn't understand how to set up defensively is ridiculous for a top level professional coach.

All styles and systems of play have their advantages and drawbacks. Farke chooses to play a progressive, attack minded system. That will inevitably leave defensive weaknesses. You cover those as much as possible but at this level the opposition are that much better at exploiting them. 

What that doesn't mean is that Farke has no understanding of defensive set up and that he and his coaching staff 'need help'.

How do you even know whether Riemer etc are defensively minded coaches? Are coaches even recruited on the basis of one facet of the game only, such as defending or attacking?!

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

Do we not have a defensive coach? And if not, how many other teams in the PL don’t have one either?

We've never had one under Farke. 

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4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Never mind the defence, we can't attack either. Bollexed at both ends.

Winning the ball higher up the park might help with that. Pukki can press, Rashica has tried so far, I bet Sargent would work hard in a press if he was asked too. When we attack the opposition is always set and we're outnumbered, if we force mistakes we'll create better chances. 

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36 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

Its just astonishing isn't it, whoever is selected the problems seem to be the same. 

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8 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Sorry but I find these type of comments a total nonsense. 

You have no idea how Farke coaches on the training ground. The idea that he doesn't understand how to set up defensively is ridiculous for a top level professional coach.

All styles and systems of play have their advantages and drawbacks. Farke chooses to play a progressive, attack minded system. That will inevitably leave defensive weaknesses. You cover those as much as possible but at this level the opposition are that much better at exploiting them. 

What that doesn't mean is that Farke has no understanding of defensive set up and that he and his coaching staff 'need help'.

How do you even know whether Riemer etc are defensively minded coaches? Are coaches even recruited on the basis of one facet of the game only, such as defending or attacking?!

 

 

Nonsense?  Well I obviously would disagree, I've said this many times over the past four years. Can we just see if it works, otherwise Farke might as well go now, and we get Hughton back.

As Ken Hairy has replied elsewhere, no we have never had a specific defensive coach.  Farke's team consist of lots of conditioning specialists, fitness coaches etc. but not one practised at the "dark" arts of defence.  And yes, it is getting relatively common now to have coaches who specialise in one facet of the game.  So much so, when things go bad, it is those coaches that get the boot rather than the "head" coach themselves.

Edited by shefcanary

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We have changed our style of play dramatically since last season, massively to our detriment. I keep banging on about how I'd like us to go back to the system that was working so well.

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2 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Nonsense?  Well I obviously would disagree, I've said this many times over the past four years. Can we just see if it works, otherwise Farke might as well go now, and we get Hughton back.

As Ken Hairy has replied elsewhere, no we have never had a specific defensive coach.  Farke's team consist of lots of conditioning specialists, fitness coaches etc. but not one practised at the "dark" arts of defence.  And yes, it is getting relatively common now to have coaches who specialise in one facet of the game.  So much so, when things go bad, it is those coaches that get the boot rather than the "head" coach themselves.

It's nonsense because you don't know what each coach does at Colney on a day to day basis. So you are not in a position to evaluate their performance in those roles.

Webber is. If he feels that the coaching staff needs improving, expect him to act. 

 

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This is entirely a Farke team. Yet the issues are exactly the same as when he inherited a largely Alex Neil team. Different, and better, players but same issues. Suggests he is in desperate need of additional coaching support.

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7 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

It's nonsense because you don't know what each coach does at Colney on a day to day basis. So you are not in a position to evaluate their performance in those roles.

Webber is. If he feels that the coaching staff needs improving, expect him to act. 

 

But I've read Webber won't interfere in coaching decisions, he leaves that to Farke.  Webber was once asked once whether Farke needed additional help in defensive matters.  His response was that was something for Farke to decide.  Agreed, but how do you get Farke to listen to criticism where such a solution could even be contemplated.  

Edited by shefcanary

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4 minutes ago, Tumbleweed said:

This is entirely a Farke team. Yet the issues are exactly the same as when he inherited a largely Alex Neil team. Different, and better, players but same issues. Suggests he is in desperate need of additional coaching support.

I totally agree. There is a thread about Sam Allardyce and most posters have (predictably) gone 'off on one' in fury at the idea.  However, I have a different suggestion involving same person.

We all know the geezer got his teams to defend really well and there is zero doubt that that is our most urgent need right now. He might (at his age) not need or want another 'full on' management job but he might consider the role of 'defensive coach / consultant' whereby he could coach the defence as individuals and as a unit in the basic arts of defending. He could also help Farke with identifying and rectifying the alarming gaps in our midfield and flanks when teams counter attack us.

Farke remains as manager and front man with someone like Allardyce on the training ground and in the dug out to offer experience and advice. If not Allardyce then someone like Rio Ferdinand could be approached. His tactical analysis on TV is spot on, he has never shown an interest in management itself but this kind of training ground / consultancy role could work wonders.       

The Cook, her husband and Webber should (as we speak) be having a meeting discussing and thrashing out these sort of ideas. Anything less is a dereliction of duty. They won't be of course as it would be viewed as treason to even be considering that Herr Farke might (just might) be in need of some support.  

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1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

We just need Farke to accept he needs help defensively!  Get in a good defensive coach and Farke can focus on attack and the whole team environment.  Today (and for the 14 previous EPL games) it wasn't necessarily the tactics, just a complete lack of defensive nous / awareness / concentration. 

If only our defence could avoid switching off/ mistakes for 90 minutes!

Maybe Hughton as defensive coach? 😊

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Surely whether there is a defensive coach is a decision, and within the scope, of the Director of Football? Otherwise Webber is just a transfer merchant.

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1 hour ago, Petriix said:

We have changed our style of play dramatically since last season, massively to our detriment. I keep banging on about how I'd like us to go back to the system that was working so well.

It wouldn't work in the premiership, we have gone from having one of the best squads in the league to one of the worst. You can't play posessional football when you are being pressed by teams who have the stamina, strength and technical ability to disrupt you at every turn and who can then punish your inevitable errors that come from that pressure.

I wanted to see us play fast, counter attacking football this year, and I assumed that's what we were being set up to do. We don't have the defensive stability to make that work though and don't seem to have the understanding to play on the break. 

Performances need to improve dramatically, but it won't be because we adopt a system completely unsuited to the relative quality of our squad by contrast to the rest of the division that that will happen.

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49 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

I didn't mention his name, but an ideal mentor?

The idea that you can just bring in Hughton or Allardyce and fix our defensive issues is completely absurd. 

Do you know what they would do? They would advocate a much more defensive set up. Farke is capable of doing that himself. His choice is not to. It's not to throw out his ethos. It's to get better at implementing it.

And there are still 33 games to go. 

People calling for Allardyce as a defensive guru makes me feel like I've entered some sort of weird parallel universe.

All off the back of 5 defeats, most of which were fully expected.

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57 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

The idea that you can just bring in Hughton or Allardyce and fix our defensive issues is completely absurd. 

Do you know what they would do? They would advocate a much more defensive set up. Farke is capable of doing that himself. His choice is not to. It's not to throw out his ethos. It's to get better at implementing it.

And there are still 33 games to go. 

People calling for Allardyce as a defensive guru makes me feel like I've entered some sort of weird parallel universe.

All off the back of 5 defeats, most of which were fully expected.

You were missing tongues in cheeks there from both of us! There's still humour, just. 

But the concept can't do any more harm than permitting the same old mistakes match after match.  

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11 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

I think the masses of space we leave in dangerous areas has more to do with it, plus the fact we stand off and don't tackle. The defence is always caught in difficult positions which is why they make mistakes. I think we'd be better off pressing high so those mistakes aren't punished in such dangerous areas. Plus Hanley and Omobamidele are quick for CB's over longer distances and Aarons and Williams/Dimi have pace to burn so they could win the ball back if another team breaks our press. We sure as hell can't defend well in tight areas and Hanley is slow over a short distance so i don't think our current approach suits the defenders we have and I think this approach will help us across the team including in defence.  

They just don’t mark properly. 

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