Wayne Rooney's DC

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

42 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

And a carefully implemented salary cap can be imposed on clubs by the sport's ruling authority, as demonstrated in other sports. . 

It just means the talent goes elsewhere. Simple.

[Google Bot 3,267]

36 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

You said it yourself, your owned favoured solution falls down for the same reasons you think a salary cap won't work; it would require involvement of too many parties that won't benefit.

Before all of that there needs to be a mindset change in supporters who actively wish their clubs to fall into debt chasing star names to compete.  Otherwise fans will turn on the organisations trying to implement fairer rules, labelling them as the bad guys.

Also, it needs to be applied across the top European leagues.  It's really not doable when the super league would undermine it, or used as a leverage.

Looks like the top teams want short contract players on month-by-month high wages, almost employed as a service for the season rather than a traditional club asset.  If they successfully take the elite set of players into this structure it pretty much means that anyone outside of that top set of clubs just can't afford to pay players of that ilk.

But it also means that a trend will start whereby agents will push for players to only commit to 12/24 month contracts in order to enable them a free move to the top sides whereby they can command big wages.  This really sticks two fingers up to clubs like us who are looking at taking young/budget players and selling for a profit as you're only a season away from them leaving for nothing.

Everything just seems to be heading that way to me, hope I'm wrong. 

[shefcanary 2,393]

11 hours ago, 1902 said:

That's fair, and that chart is pretty comprehensive, I suppose to me they have always been the least prestigious of the East Midlands clubs, behind Derby and Forest, but that may simply be because of the Clough era(s). 

Who did we play when Carrow Road enjoy it's largest attendance ...... ?  Must have been a big team 58 years ago for that to happen.

[canarydan23 4,060]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It just means the talent goes elsewhere. Simple.

Not if UEFA implement it.

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Wayne's 'special fan club' when he was at United.....

Edited September 17, 2021 by Mello Yello

[Badger 2,405]

On 16/09/2021 at 06:51, Virtual reality said:

Questionable that Fulham and WBA would be considered as doing worse than us. 

They are in the division below!

What criterion are you using?

[Badger 2,405]

23 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Stupid answer.

All three are established in the top 26.

If you use this argument we are therefore doing as well as Palace, Southampton, Wolves, Brighton and Burnley - also only established as top 26.

Therefore, by your "top 26" criterion only Leicester are doing better and all those cited + several others (B'ham, Middlesbrough, Cardiff etc) are doing worse.

[Badger 2,405]

16 hours ago, Google Bot said:

What throws me is when pundits claim that we're not trying, and they're giving us absolutely no vote of confidence or credit for how we're ran.

You have to remember that he pundits may all have been very good players but very few of them would be serious contenders on Mastermind!

To put it bluntly they don't understand much beyond football tactics - and even then, some of them are increasingly left behind by modern methods and hark back to the tactics of their day! 

[Midlands Yellow 3,970]

On 17/09/2021 at 08:34, Mello Yello said:

 

Wayne's 'special fan club' when he was at United.....

l

More Wayne fans, they sent this to the editor of the Sun. 

Edited December 23, 2022 by Midlands Yellow

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Not if UEFA implement it.

That is one continent, what about the rest? 

And even if the salary cap is the same across the continent, tax rates are not and UEFA has no control over those. Players care about their net pay, not their gross pay.

Always ways around it anyway, by the time one club starts offering to pay the mortgage of a players mum, dad, sister, brother, best mate, and dog alongside their salary, and then giving the players wife a made up consultancy job, paid to a ltd company in the Isle of Man. Salary caps completely unenforceable in practice, people will always find a loophole. 

Besides, it all feels a bit communist, UEFA setting player salaries and ticket prices to ensure profits minimised? No thanks, if you can't afford football then find another hobby, or do the grown up thing and follow a non-league side, loads of those will be well chuffed to get your £8 on a Saturday and they'll even let you drink your pint while you watch the game. The players won't be driving £150k cars so you don't have to be jealous of their financial success or how much fanny they get. No club has a monopoly over 3pm on a Saturday. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[canarydan23 4,060]

19 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That is one continent, what about the rest? 

And even if the salary cap is the same across the continent, tax rates are not and UEFA has no control over those. Players care about their net pay, not their gross pay.

Always ways around it anyway, by the time one club starts offering to pay the mortgage of a players mum, dad, sister, brother, best mate, and dog alongside their salary, and then giving the players wife a made up consultancy job, paid to a ltd company in the Isle of Man. Salary caps completely unenforceable in practice, people will always find a loophole. 

Besides, it all feels a bit communist, UEFA setting player salaries and ticket prices to ensure profits minimised? No thanks, if you can't afford football then find another hobby, or do the grown up thing and follow a non-league side, loads of those will be well chuffed to get your £8 on a Saturday and they'll even let you drink your pint while you watch the game. The players won't be driving £150k cars so you don't have to be jealous of their financial success or how much fanny they get. No club has a monopoly over 3pm on a Saturday. 

Silly me, how could I neglect to see the prospect of star players moving to Luxembourg for the favourable tax benefits.

And ask Saracens how the paying of player's mortgages went for them in Rugby. And there hasn't been any major salary cap dodging in the NFL since the Broncos in the 90s. It's proven as doable and workable.

And in your mind, what do you think people proposing a salary cap are suggesting? Stick em all on £25k a year?!

And I'm talking about making football a level playing field, bit incely of you to assume it's an issue of jealously of players getting plenty of snatch. Fair play to them.

Go have a **** and try again, you'll probably think more clearly.

[Badger 2,405]

28 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Besides, it all feels a bit communist

How on earth can it be "communist?" The whole point of communism is that it rids us of top down systems of control! (The clue is in the name!)

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Seems some people do not understand salary caps. La Liga has one already.

[canarydan23 4,060]

24 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Seems some people do not understand salary caps. La Liga has one already.

I think that's the big problem, people have some funny ideas about what it is and how it would work.

[Badger 2,405]

38 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

I think that's the big problem, people have some funny ideas about what it is and how it would work.

A salary cap based on turnover could work but then so could FFP.

IMO the issue is isn't that the ideas are unworkable, it is that a proper executive resource needs to be given to its administration. My understanding, from the Price of Football podcast, is that a lot of the problem is the rather amateurish  way in which the EFL has implemented it.

A proper executive, and a clear legally tight and binding code of activity* with adequate accounting and legal resources would make it work.

* My understanding is that part of the trouble has been that there were no rules explicitly ruling out alternative methods of player amortisation (which is one way that Derby fiddled the system) - the code was not sufficiently tight. Ditto valuations for sale of grounds etc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Its the same as the Government blaming loopholes when Philip Green pays no tax. Close the bleddy things.

But of course the elitism of the creation of the EPL and its rules means there is unlikely to be any willing participants.

I smiled when Pep pleaded for more fans to turn up. Hang on, the clubs are able to buy and play players in the UCL because of TV money. The more people who watch it through a media outlet, the more money the clubs will get.

Cake and eat it?

[Midlands Yellow 3,970]

9 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Its the same as the Government blaming loopholes when Philip Green pays no tax. Close the bleddy things.

But of course the elitism of the creation of the EPL and its rules means there is unlikely to be any willing participants.

I smiled when Pep pleaded for more fans to turn up. Hang on, the clubs are able to buy and play players in the UCL because of TV money. The more people who watch it through a media outlet, the more money the clubs will get.

Cake and eat it?

Pep after a pay rise? Only on £400k a week at the min. 

[Virtual reality 707]

10 hours ago, Badger said:

They are in the division below!

What criterion are you using?

They were in the division above us last season and there’s a realistic chance they will be again next. We’re all yo-yo clubs achieving the same levels of success. West Brom have also spent several more seasons than us at this level in recent history. I’d say that all 3 teams are performing at equal levels at differing times. 

[Badger 2,405]

25 minutes ago, Virtual reality said:

They were in the division above us last season and there’s a realistic chance they will be again next. We’re all yo-yo clubs achieving the same levels of success. West Brom have also spent several more seasons than us at this level in recent history. I’d say that all 3 teams are performing at equal levels at differing times. 

I take your point but I think that you could apply similar logic to most of the bottom half of the premier league (not current placements). None of us are really secure and none have any chance of winning with a Europa League place realistically being the height of our ambitions. 

Using my very basic understanding of physics, there are several of us that are yo yo clubs: we have different wave lengths and frequencies but we go up and down none the less! 😃

[Badger 2,405]

6 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Pep after a pay rise? Only on £400k a week at the min. 

It will be because of the National Insurance rise!

It will leave him several hundred pounds a year worse off - good job the govt decided to share the pain!

[Virtual reality 707]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

I take your point but I think that you could apply similar logic to most of the bottom half of the premier league (not current placements). None of us are really secure and none have any chance of winning with a Europa League place realistically being the height of our ambitions. 

Using my very basic understanding of physics, there are several of us that are yo yo clubs: we have different wave lengths and frequencies but we go up and down none the less! 😃

Exactly. Which is why I questioned West Brom and Fulham being placed on a list of teams we’ve outperformed. I’d see them as equally achieving teams myself 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

10 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

Seems some people do not understand salary caps. La Liga has one already.

Right and Barcelona had their salary cap suddenly halved. 

So now the biggest club in Spain has Martin Braithwaite up front, and none of the worlds top 10 talents are in their league.

So it completely supports my view that a salary cap in the UK just means top talent going elsewhere!

[Ken Hairy 3,769]

Breaking news, Derby are going into administration 

[Canary73 159]

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

Breaking news, Derby are going into administration 

Beat me to it...https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/09/derby-county-board-of-directors-statement-17th-september-2021

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

9 hours ago, Badger said:

A salary cap based on turnover could work

It has just destroyed La Liga and pushed it down from probably 2nd best league in the world to perhaps the 5th or 6th. 

Barcelona aren't selling many tickets now that Newcastle and Middlesbrough rejects make their starting XI. 

Their situation has happened because turnover was reduced due to covid, and therefore their salary cap was halved by the footballing authorities.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Right and Barcelona had their salary cap suddenly halved. 

So now the biggest club in Spain has Martin Braithwaite up front, and none of the worlds top 10 talents are in their league.

So it completely supports my view that a salary cap in the UK just means top talent going elsewhere!

Because you assume that they would find more money elsewhere. That is not a given.

[Google Bot 3,267]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So it completely supports my view that a salary cap in the UK just means top talent going elsewhere!

Only a few games in as yet, talent should be allowed to blossom where money isn't the sole provider via "ready to go" players.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Ken Hairy said:

Breaking news, Derby are going into administration 

Good, scummy club, not sacking Lawrence but sacking Keogh, and then appointing a serial drink driver as assistant manager, and then another as manager, shows that they have no morale compass at all. I actually supported Keogh suing them, he's a fool but the execs at that club are vermin.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Canary73 said:

Beat me to it...https://www.dcfc.co.uk/news/2021/09/derby-county-board-of-directors-statement-17th-september-2021

I like how it says on the BBC that they "could" face a 12 point deduction. 

No. They must have a 12 point deduction just like other clubs.

[Google Bot 3,267]

Derby footing the blame firmly on EFL and Covid in that statement?

Edited September 17, 2021 by Google Bot