****The Official Lapps Match Thread v Arsenal ****

[Ian 1,129]

6 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

VAR did check, Oliver clearly had his finger on his ear before then confirming the clearly offside goal. 

Yes, but were they checking the handball or just for offside?

[Ken Hairy 3,769]

Just now, Ian said:

Yes, but were they checking the handball or just for offside?

Ah, that I can't say. 

[Ian 1,129]

Just now, Ken Hairy said:

Ah, that I can't say. 

Precisely. Because despite the fact we have lengthy delays nobody is privy to the actual conversations, fuelling the fact that VAR is just shifting interpretation from the on-field officials to those in some remote studio location.

Still, at least we get a "checking for XXX" message on the screen 2 minutes after everyone knows that anyway...

[Ian 1,129]

10 minutes ago, Mr Angry said:

In my view, standing directly in front of the GK instantly gives an official a reason to disallow a goal-I didn't expect them to have to draw lines to justify whether Todd was in directly Schmeichel's eyeline (although drawing lines was the way they used to justify the decision to disallow Teemu's goal against Spurs, which is possibly the only use of VAR that I have seen in our games that I still think was wrong).

I'm sure that I remember some article or report a few years ago that concluded that there probably was some unconscious bias towards bigger teams in debatable decisions, although I don't subscribe to the view that some people have on here that officials are biased against us because they don't think we deserve to be in the EPL.

In both the Leicester game and today's game, I thought at the time that the decisions were wrong, but no, I am certainly not surprised that those decisions went against us, because they were correct and that is what VAR is supposed to do-make sure the decisions are correct. 

The crux of the Schmeichel one (and probably today's too) is whether the attacking team gain an advantage from the offside player's positioning.

Against Leicester it is unquestionably debatable as to whether Todd standing where he did blocked Schmeichel's vision at all, and more importantly, made any difference to him getting to Kenny's header. My interpretation is that it made absolutely no difference whatsoever as he wasn't getting there.

Today's there is no question Aubameyang gained a massive advantage standing where he is when the deliberate Arsenal action (e.g. the initial shot) took place. The fact that a freakish ricochet off another Arsenal player suddenly meant it's a different phase of play just doesn't make any sense in terms of what the law is meant to achieve.

The point is, when you have such a wooly rule which is obviously so overcomplicated to cover loads of edge cases but missing many others, combined with VAR, it gives the officials every opportunity to exercise that bias, unconscious or not.

[Jim Smith 2,317]

38 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Irrelevant. That phase of play has been and gone. So, the offside call has to be made from when Pepe plays it again, and as video evidence made crystal clear, that was onside.

However, the EDP and indeed @horsefly said earlier that the main controversy was Saka handballing in the build up.

It’s not a different phase of play. It’s about 2 seconds before he puts the ball in the net 

[TheGunnShow 5,937]

Oh it is. Pepe touched it again on the rebound so that's when the new call appears. Fact is, the referees got the offside spot on. The query is on the handball and there's not been any clear footage of that.

[chicken 2,624]

51 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Only team in top four divisions yet to register a single point. You tell me! 

Because we are the only team to have faced:
- Last seasons Premier League title winners, EFL cup winners, Champions League Finalists - aka the best team in the country last season, Man City, for the opening fixture.
- Last seasons 3rd place team in Liverpool, who also got to the quarter finals of the Champions League being beaten by Real Madrid, despite not having their best defender.
- Last seasons 5th placed team in Leicester who are now consistent, regular top six challengers.
- Last seasons 8th placed team in Arsenal, who would normally expect to be challenging for the top six and have two strikers who would walk into at least 50% of the leagues teams and just spent what we spent on our squad this summer, on one player.

In the mean time, there are teams that have ammassed all of three points, from three draws, in six games. Playing in the process, Morecambe, Burton Albion, Cheltenham Town, MK Dons, AFC Wimbledon and Bolton Wanderers.

That is why. Now. Should we ask some questions that have less obvious answers that don't sound a little silly?

[chicken 2,624]

1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

Oh it is. Pepe touched it again on the rebound so that's when the new call appears. Fact is, the referees got the offside spot on. The query is on the handball and there's not been any clear footage of that.

Sort of. There are three points of question.

Is Aubameyang offside from the original shot? Answer - Yes.
Is Aubameyang offside from the the follow up when Pepe responds to the rebound? Answer - Yes.
Does Aubameyang benefit from having stood in an offside position and therefore, have effectively interfered with play? My argument is yes.

This is my argument. As a goalkeeper Krul has a choice of which way he pushes the ball. By standing offside, Krul cannot push the ball in his direction in fear that he may be onside. When challenging for the ball on the floor, he can't push it that way and hope one of his defenders gets there first. Ergo, he is limiting the choices of the keeper and he is interfering.

There is no argument that if he was onside, Aarons and other defenders would have a chance to react to the ball, he stood offside for two shots. One shot passes him twice.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, Ian said:

Please don't accuse me of writing tosh, and then in your second sentence write something that I've never suggested or implied.

Please tell me which of the following points that I actually wrote you think are "tosh":

1) The four teams we have played this season are streets ahead of us in personnel.

2) Any sort of result against these teams would have been considered a very good, above expected result.

Given that we've only been two debatable decisions away from massively exceeding expectations I would suggest our chances of survival have not diminished in the slightest.

The fact you go into every game expecting us to win, despite also knowing it's a long shot, is also a bit of an oxymoron to be honest.

You are just looking for excuses. Your ridiculous claim they were two debatable decisions shows your vulnerability. 

[Ian 1,129]

8 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

You are just looking for excuses. Your ridiculous claim they were two debatable decisions shows your vulnerability. 

🤨

[canarydan23 4,060]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

Fact is, the referees got the offside spot on.

There are much better places for baiting than the PinkUn message board. You're doing your peculiar little hobby all wrong.

[Midlands Yellow 3,970]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

There is a lot of denying the truth on here tonight.

So could we establish that if we don't beat Watford, we are in the siht?

Definitely, if we’re not beating Watford at home who are we looking to beat? 

[nutty nigel 7,527]

We'll beat Watford💛⚽💚🙃💪

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,429]

Listening to the fans in pubs , the train and at the match yesterday there is no suggestion of getting rid of Farke. Those of us that actually saw the game , saw a relatively poor Arsenal side who like others  did not allow us to play the football that easily wins the Championship.

 
In the championship this football creates enough chances to allow us to miss a few of them. In prem it does not . 

This is the issue that the fans are talking about . Not the noisy “it’s a disaster/ it’s all perfectly fine” fans but the thoughtful fans that have watched us play and have reached their own conclusions.

 
Farke and his coaching team have yet to convince “football” that they can do so effectively in the Prem. this is what the media are saying , and this is what many Norwich fans are saying too.

So whilst those questions can sensibly be asked , the debate will properly continue .There is every chance that Farke will demonstrate that he can given that he is a great coach and highly intelligent. 

 
Underneath the noise .  

[Argos 18]

Yesterday was a disappointing result. I think that period in the first half where we were on top and pinging the ball about nicely is when we needed to score. Unfortunately we didn't but going in at half time at 0-0 was still a positive. Second half we didn't really have another spell of dominance but I think we still did okay, defending reasonably well but giving away possession too easily. The goal was unlucky, as we've seen the offside call is debatable (judging by the debates here and elsewhere). Overall I would say we played okay, not well, not badly. 

Positives are:

The squad still needs to gel, I think we can expect better performances when they do. Fingers crossed we make progress in this regard with a full week before Watford.

If we get 3 points against Watford, we'll be back in the mix. We haven't played any of the sides that have a similar level of quality to ours yet (which there are at least 6 teams in my opinion). This will show where we are better than our first 4 very difficult fixtures.

Negatives:

Zero points, zero goals from open play, 4 losses on the bounce (a lot more... if you ignore our fantastic 2020/21 season), a few players looking out of their depth...

Watford next, who always seem to sh!thouse a win against us recently.

Let's hope the boys are fired up to get revenge for the last 4 meetings. OTBC

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I would add that Farke yesterday did not cover himself in glory with the subs again. Left a huge gaping hole through the middle and we were lucky Arsenal did not score 2 or 3 more. His chucking on strikers and sacrificing the midfield approach never works. 

[Alex 26]

19 hours ago, Ian said:

How many points did you expect from our first four games then?

The truth is that Man City, Liverpool, Leicester and Arsenal are streets ahead of us in terms of personnel, and the fact we played 2 of them away, getting any points would have been a positive, regardless of the order the fixtures have fallen. Or are you denying the truth yourself?

I understand what you are saying and you are right to an extent but lets not hide behind the fact that Leicester have hardly hit the ground running and come into the game after the back of a 4-1 hammering to West Ham United, Arsenal have lost all of their games conceding 9 and scoring 0 until yesterday and they also lost 2-0 to a side that we come up with. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,271]

On 11/09/2021 at 18:23, chicken said:

Couldn't give a monkey's about what you may or may not hear. It's likely to be inaccurate going on previous posts.

As for relegation, we are favourites for relegation - no shocks there. Anyone with a couple of brain cells would have told you that before the summer, half way through the summer and at the end of it.

Most people outside of Norfolk barely pay our club much attention, they don't look into what we do in any real depth. That's no surprise - it's how our county is generally treated as well. Hence we get talksh!t radio erm, hosts, jabber a load of absolute unresearched b0ll*cks about us.

Why does anyone genuinely expect to see or hear otherwise from fans of other clubs? There are a good ten teams in the premier league who will, with good reason, see a promoted team and be eyeing 6points from them. Any of them.

You just have to be more logical about these things. If you live outside of Norfolk you must know how generally it is unpopular, rarely in conversations and rarely a big draw destination. If you are from Norfolk, or have friends here, you'll know that generally, that's just how we like it. It's nice, it's peaceful, it's got an old world slow pace of life. I have been elsewhere, I have seen elsewhere, I have lived elsewhere - and I am quite happy for people who have never been, never researched, or never looked into Norfolk, or our club, to slag them off. Why? Because I'd rather keep it the way it is than to have a sudden population boom that pushes our wonderfully rural county into a more congested and population demanding space. I like that we are always the underdog as a club, just like we are always an underdog as a county, and as a part of the population.

Anyone that knows anything though, knows that few places are truly better for many things. And our club is much, much better than people may give it any credit for. So far as I can see, we are still yet to break £10m in signing a player. When we start playing our genuine competitors in this league, then we can truly start to worry if things don't go our way. 

Ah, so because you disagree with some of my views on this message board, it now means that people I talk to away from here, are likely to have inaccurate views. Gotcha, makes perfect sense. 

[jaberry2 550]

I was quite surprised with the first team XI on Saturday, but it would seem we had a number of players exhausted from international duties. For me going forward and dependent on fitness, Normann needs to come in as does Gilmour. For me Rupp just isn't good enough at this level. Hanley is looking like he should be replaced by Kabak when he gets up to speed, providing we still have enough leadership in the team without him starting.

Ive been saying for a while that Krul will be a weak link this season. Ive always rated him as a shotstopper but his kicking/distribution/decision making is questionable at this level. I'm hoping Gunn can gather confidence and wont be long before he can step up. Pukki does look exhausted, with no surprise with the over reliance on him at club & national level. I hope Sargent can come in and recover from his injury shortly in order to provide him competition and add some much needed energy up front.

With so much change in this team we really need it to gel quickly. Im sure Farke will be changing the XI a lot for Watford and working on integrating the new signings this week. 3 points at Watford are much needed and if we fail to get those, it will be quite deflating for the team.