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Barking Mad Barclay Boy

New players for Saturday

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Morning all,

I am reading plenty of posts over social media saying Farke must start :

Tzolis,Rashica,Kabak,Normann,Sargent

Have they not realised that the latter is playing tonight in an international? 

Tzolis was recently called as being injured by the norwich staff, and Rashica played in an international game last night.
Kabak & Normann has not played for City yet, do you really expect them to start? I will eat my words if they all start .

But from Experience we all know Farke slowly brings new lads in, add that on top of recently playing international fixtures then you've got no chance.

Depending on fitness I can see 

Krul

Aarons-Hanley-Gibson-Williams

LeesM-Gilmour-Ruup-

Cantwell-Dowell

Pukki

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If it turned out all of those players start Saturday, I won't be disappointed. Can't see it happening though. For me, Normann is the must-start as he's the player we need to fill the glaring need based on the games so far. 

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I don’t expect them to all start for the reasons you have cited but I do think Farke is sometimes over cautious in introducing new players and in many ways we have nothing to lose with this game.

I therefore expect at least a couple of them to feature on Saturday, particularly Normann. I also don’t want to see Tzolis warming the bench for the next month whilst we are “patient” with him. Everything I have seen of him suggests he is perfectly capable of playing and making an impact for us. 

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2 hours ago, Barking Mad Barclay Boy said:

Morning all,

I am reading plenty of posts over social media saying Farke must start :

Tzolis,Rashica,Kabak,Normann,Sargent

Have they not realised that the latter is playing tonight in an international? 

Tzolis was recently called as being injured by the norwich staff, and Rashica played in an international game last night.
Kabak & Normann has not played for City yet, do you really expect them to start? I will eat my words if they all start .

But from Experience we all know Farke slowly brings new lads in, add that on top of recently playing international fixtures then you've got no chance.

Depending on fitness I can see 

Krul

Aarons-Hanley-Gibson-Williams

LeesM-Gilmour-Ruup-

Cantwell-Dowell

Pukki

Rashica will start. Hanley and Gilmour played more minutes for their national side than Rashica. 

Pretty sure most players can deal with a wednesday/Saturday turn around.

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Normann didn't play in Norway's third game, so could start at Arsenal. Tzolis came on as a sub last night for Greece and provided the assist for the winning goal, so should at least be in the bench for us as should Sargent and Kabak.

Edited by Yelloow Since 72

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Think it is more about Farke being confident he's had enough time to work with players on the training ground so they know the system and how he wants the team to play. Norwich's midfield has looked like a bunch of strangers at times this season, so chucking in Normann might not be the best move (although depends what the situation is with McLean injury).

Kabak is going to be a way off fitness wise, he was frozen out at Schalke and played no pre-season to my knowledge. 

Tzolis is just coming back off injury and in unlikely to be ready to start. I expect a similar line up to Leicester in all honesty. Unless McLean is out and then Farke may go for Normann.

Sargent had a pretty torrid international break by all accounts so suspect he'll also be on the bench.

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4 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Think it is more about Farke being confident he's had enough time to work with players on the training ground so they know the system and how he wants the team to play. Norwich's midfield has looked like a bunch of strangers at times this season, so chucking in Normann might not be the best move (although depends what the situation is with McLean injury).

Kabak is going to be a way off fitness wise, he was frozen out at Schalke and played no pre-season to my knowledge. 

Tzolis is just coming back off injury and in unlikely to be ready to start. I expect a similar line up to Leicester in all honesty. Unless McLean is out and then Farke may go for Normann.

Sargent had a pretty torrid international break by all accounts so suspect he'll also be on the bench.

I do think he’s over cautious in that regard though. A top international central midfielder is, in reality, capable of slotting into most teams and playing in central midfield. I really don’t want to see us at the Emirates with a midfield trio of Rupp, Gilmour and Lees Melou. 

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1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

I do think he’s over cautious in that regard though. A top international central midfielder is, in reality, capable of slotting into most teams and playing in central midfield. I really don’t want to see us at the Emirates with a midfield trio of Rupp, Gilmour and Lees Melou. 

There is a lot to learn when coming to a new club, especially with the system Farke plays when it isn't just hitting percentage balls over the top. Will need to know and understand the myriad of pressing triggers, positions to take in and out of possession, rotations, set piece duties etc etc. 

Normann will travel back to Norwich today and have training for a couple of days, whether Farke is confident he can learn what he needs to know in those few training sessions is what will determine if he can start. Farke has thrown players straight in when he is confident they get the system - Dimi played only shortly after arriving for example - but central midfield is so key he might want a little more time to work with the player.

There is also the issue that Normann is working his way back to fitness, he hasn't completed a full 90 once this season so far for Rostov of Norway. So that will need to be assessed as well.

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3 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

I do think he’s over cautious in that regard though. A top international central midfielder is, in reality, capable of slotting into most teams and playing in central midfield. I really don’t want to see us at the Emirates with a midfield trio of Rupp, Gilmour and Lees Melou. 

Assuming McLean & Giannoulis aren't fit it will probably be:

Krul

Aarons Gibson Hanley Williams

Rupp Gilmour PLM

Cantwell Pukki Rashica

 

Gunn Kabak Omobamidele Rupp Normann Dowell Tzolis Idah Sargent

 

Once this game is out the way Farke gets a week full training with Normann and Kabak then the lineup will change.

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I would definitely have Omobamidele in the team, so a back three.

                          Krul

      Omobamidele Hanley Gibson

Aarons  Gilmour  Lees-melou   Williams

                 Rashica   Cantwell

                           Pukki

Idah/Sargent/Tzolis all to get minutes from the bench. Normann and Kabak in once up to speed in a week or two.

 

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20 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

Assuming McLean & Giannoulis aren't fit it will probably be:

Krul

Aarons Gibson Hanley Williams

Rupp Gilmour PLM

Cantwell Pukki Rashica

 

Gunn Kabak Omobamidele Rupp Normann Dowell Tzolis Idah Sargent

 

Once this game is out the way Farke gets a week full training with Normann and Kabak then the lineup will change.

If that’s the team we put out then we will lose, comfortably. He has to do something different in the midfield for this one in my view, regardless of whether the players are as up to speed with our system as he/we would like. 
 

it’s football, not rocket science and I think this “learning how we play” thing is over-egged, particularly for a central midfielder. All we need someone to do is to sit in front of the back 4 (if we play a back four), be disciplined and give Gilmour the platform to create. 

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Trial Be Fire....... Bung em all in, then let us fans tear them apart coz they didn't win. 🤬

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20 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If that’s the team we put out then we will lose, comfortably. He has to do something different in the midfield for this one in my view, regardless of whether the players are as up to speed with our system as he/we would like. 
 

it’s football, not rocket science and I think this “learning how we play” thing is over-egged, particularly for a central midfielder. All we need someone to do is to sit in front of the back 4 (if we play a back four), be disciplined and give Gilmour the platform to create. 

Normann in to break up play and cover. He has a decent passing range too. Hopefully we can get the attacking speed and intensity right as we've looked too slow when the ball has been turned over to us 

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51 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There is a lot to learn when coming to a new club, especially with the system Farke plays when it isn't just hitting percentage balls over the top. Will need to know and understand the myriad of pressing triggers, positions to take in and out of possession, rotations, set piece duties etc etc. 

All true of course, but at the same time I can't understand why that means we should persist with playing Gilmour in a role he can't bear the load in? 

Even if Normann comes in and struggles, at least he will be 1-game ahead in terms of finding his place, whereas Gilmour has only ever been a stopgap as the CDM / anchor point of the midfield - so where is the benefit in persisting with him there? 

I think Jim is right in the sense that the central midfield has to change, it hasn't been working. Yes we don't know how well Normann, or whoever else comes in (i.e. Sorenson but I doubt it), will do, but I see no evidence for leaving things as they are!

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

All true of course, but at the same time I can't understand why that means we should persist with playing Gilmour in a role he can't bear the load in? 

Even if Normann comes in and struggles, at least he will be 1-game ahead in terms of finding his place, whereas Gilmour has only ever been a stopgap as the CDM / anchor point of the midfield - so where is the benefit in persisting with him there? 

I think Jim is right in the sense that the central midfield has to change, it hasn't been working. Yes we don't know how well Normann, or whoever else comes in (i.e. Sorenson but I doubt it), will do, but I see no evidence for leaving things as they are!

I doubt Gilmour will be moved out of the CDM/anchor role even when Normann is fully up to speed. 

Read Connor's piece today on Norwich's midfield - the role Gilmour is playing now is his preferred position and is where he played for Chelsea and where he has played for Scotland. Normann will play where McLean/PLM are playing, but will probably sit deeper. McLean already was sitting deeper than Rupp did in his matches. In my view, PLM has been the bigger issue as he isn't up to the pace of the Prem League yet and doesn't close down quick enough, or move the ball on quick enough.

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2 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

I doubt Gilmour will be moved out of the CDM/anchor role even when Normann is fully up to speed. 

Read Connor's piece today on Norwich's midfield - the role Gilmour is playing now is his preferred position and is where he played for Chelsea and where he has played for Scotland. Normann will play where McLean/PLM are playing, but will probably sit deeper. McLean already was sitting deeper than Rupp did in his matches. In my view, PLM has been the bigger issue as he isn't up to the pace of the Prem League yet and doesn't close down quick enough, or move the ball on quick enough.

Thanks Bethnal, I understand Gilmour does like to play deeper in the midfield, just not with the level of responsibility he's had in these first 3 games. Perhaps similar to how we've seen Gary O'Neil / Leitner play in recent seasons? So I would've expected Normann to have played alongside him rather than further forwards. 

I am sure Farke will try something different versus Arsenal, if that means PLM drops out for someone who he feels can better support the other 2 then I will welcome it. I just won't understand seeing the exact same trio! 

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2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Thanks Bethnal, I understand Gilmour does like to play deeper in the midfield, just not with the level of responsibility he's had in these first 3 games. Perhaps similar to how we've seen Gary O'Neil / Leitner play in recent seasons? So I would've expected Normann to have played alongside him rather than further forwards. 

I am sure Farke will try something different versus Arsenal, if that means PLM drops out for someone who he feels can better support the other 2 then I will welcome it. I just won't understand seeing the exact same trio! 

McLean coming in improved things a lot from the previous games. 

Gilmour broke through at Chelsea doing exactly what he is doing for Norwich now. Normann will primarily challenge McLean for that spot on the left of the midfield three. I can see the same midfield on Saturday as Leicester (if McLean is fit) while Normann beds in and gets his fitness up. I suspect that if McLean isn't fit Normann will get his first start.

Seems Arsenal are having a bit of a midfield crisis - no Xhaka, Elneny or Smith-Rowe. There is also a doubt over Lokongo who pulled out of the last Belgium game. 

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9 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Gilmour broke through at Chelsea doing exactly what he is doing for Norwich now.

With Kante & Mount (Plus Havertz/Ziyech) sure.  The level of responsibility is much greater here due to who he has around him, McLean or Normann will hopefully bring the balance back in his favour as we've left him with too much to do.  But, of course, we know the level of opposition too.  

Oddly enough, i don't know if people remember but he was taken off at halftime when Chelsea lost to Arsenal end of last season, seemed a massive mistake at the time as he looked great in a midfield that was off-form that day, but remember pundits and fans on 5 live praising him, but saying that it's not his role to sit that deep.

He's still young so don't think we need to pigeonhole him yet, you can see he has exceptional quality but you can't allow a small guy like that to be exposed physically in those areas without help.

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I agree that we need to blood new players sooner. I understand they need to play within our system but has been said is over egged at times. Its as much discipline as anything else.

Fitness is another matter of course.

 

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3 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Think it is more about Farke being confident he's had enough time to work with players on the training ground so they know the system and how he wants the team to play. Norwich's midfield has looked like a bunch of strangers at times this season, so chucking in Normann might not be the best move (although depends what the situation is with McLean injury).

Kabak is going to be a way off fitness wise, he was frozen out at Schalke and played no pre-season to my knowledge. 

Tzolis is just coming back off injury and in unlikely to be ready to start. I expect a similar line up to Leicester in all honesty. Unless McLean is out and then Farke may go for Normann.

Sargent had a pretty torrid international break by all accounts so suspect he'll also be on the bench.

 

3 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

There is a lot to learn when coming to a new club, especially with the system Farke plays when it isn't just hitting percentage balls over the top. Will need to know and understand the myriad of pressing triggers, positions to take in and out of possession, rotations, set piece duties etc etc. 

Normann will travel back to Norwich today and have training for a couple of days, whether Farke is confident he can learn what he needs to know in those few training sessions is what will determine if he can start. Farke has thrown players straight in when he is confident they get the system - Dimi played only shortly after arriving for example - but central midfield is so key he might want a little more time to work with the player.

There is also the issue that Normann is working his way back to fitness, he hasn't completed a full 90 once this season so far for Rostov of Norway. So that will need to be assessed as well.

The two most sensible posts on the thread. Understand that folk get impatient and frustrated when new signings don't get involved immediately but I trust what DF thinks and believes, he will pick the best eleven which he believes can win the football match.

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8 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

 

The two most sensible posts on the thread. Understand that folk get impatient and frustrated when new signings don't get involved immediately but I trust what DF thinks and believes, he will pick the best eleven which he believes can win the football match.

Once he's  run the team sheet past a few on here, of course. 

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7 hours ago, Move Klose said:

Assuming McLean & Giannoulis aren't fit it will probably be:

Krul

Aarons Gibson Hanley Williams

Rupp Gilmour PLM

Cantwell Pukki Rashica

 

Gunn Kabak Omobamidele Rupp Normann Dowell Tzolis Idah Sargent

 

Once this game is out the way Farke gets a week full training with Normann and Kabak then the lineup will change.

This Rupp fella really is a utility player. Right mid AND sub at the same time 😁

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9 hours ago, Move Klose said:

Rashica will start. Hanley and Gilmour played more minutes for their national side than Rashica. 

Pretty sure most players can deal with a wednesday/Saturday turn around.

I think the thing is though that Kabak + Normann will probably only have one training session with the team to see how we play. I think that there is a good case for training for a week before giving them a starting place.

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I'm not convinced a player has to train x amount of times before he's deemed suitable to fit a style of play. I'm a footballer, have played for decades, and at the end of the day the style of football is football. We all play the game. Keep it simple, defend sensibly, look for space. Plus they're all professional footballers.

The difficulty is more about fitness and getting to know players and how they play (as has been evident with Rashica & Pukki)

Southgate has played pretty much same team 3 games running (& oddly no subs last night when players were clearly getting tired).

I really hope Pukki hits the goal trail in open play. He apparently missed a very good chance the other night, and has done so for us already. Sargent will likely be kn*ckered through globe trotting, so will be interesting to see who Farke plays.

Our midfield has been over run in all three games so far, so I'm not a fan of Rupp back in the middle.. I like Lake's 3-4-3 line up as hopefully will give us most protection in midfield, even without the new players  

Edited by Samwam27

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So if McLean is unfit, Normann not ready, then having worked with him closely this past week, surely Farke can do no worse than turn to Sorenson for the deeper CM role?

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7 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

surely Farke can do no worse than turn to Sorenson for the deeper CM role?

He can a LOT worse than that, I'd say that's a good move, personally.

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