The worst start in Premier League history...

[Hoolahoop14 124]

The worst start in Premier League history after four matches was Swindon Town in the 93/94 season with 0 points and -12 goal difference.
 

Both us and Arsenal are on 0 points and -9 goal difference... whilst it would be extremely funny if it was Arsenal, we’re absolutely taking this record aren’t we? 

[Duncan Edwards 2,233]

Even if we do, it’s a nonsense statistic. 

Just like the “losing streak” that completely ignores the championship winning season in the middle. 

Brentford are unbeaten in the top flight since something daft like 1947. 

You play everyone twice. We’ve had the 2020 champions at home, the 2021 champions away and the 2021 FA Cup winners at home. We’ve been beaten comfortably twice and deserved something out of the Leicester game.

Arsenal away? It’s an opportunity for sure but is one, I suspect, that most fans expected nothing from. But we’ve got something there way more recently than some fixtures. They don’t seem in a great place but with the likes of Saka, Aubameyang, Odegaard and Lacazette, they have players that are match winners. If we get rolled over 3 or 4 then I expect we’ll all be concerned and rightly so, but let’s not **** ourselves, they’re not a relegation contender.

I’d take a point but hope for three. I reckon a fair amount of Gooners hope we get the three too as it will undoubtedly mean the end of Arteta. 

[Google Bot 3,275]

9 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Even if we do, it’s a nonsense statistic. 

I agree, the stat is nonsensical.  But the reality isn't a nonsense, that's the bigger concern.

My biggest fear this season was to have fans/pundits are asking when the next win is coming, first goal in open play etc.  We're already just two matches away from crapping the bed.  If we're also continually being reminded that it's the worst start in nearly 20 years then that's just something else to pour over.

Anyone want to take a guess at who came along to give Swindon their first point? 🙂

14 August 1993	Sheffield United	A	1–3	20,904	Moncur
18 August 1993	Oldham Athletic	H	0–1	11,940
22 August 1993	Liverpool	H	0–5	17,364
25 August 1993	Southampton	A	1–5	12,505	Maskell (pen)
28 August 1993	Norwich City	A	0–0	17,614

[OTBC06 41]

Sheff Utd had a shocking start last year didn't they?

[Michael Starr 519]

Realistically. I feel that it's a bit unfair to compare this era of football to 1993 for example. Our current team is far far superior to that of Swindon Town in 93/94. Equally, the competition we face is about x4 harder than back then.

[Chip20 69]

12 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I’d take a point but hope for three. I reckon a fair amount of Gooners hope we get the three too as it will undoubtedly mean the end of Arteta. 

'beating Norwich will relegate us!'. 😀

[ncfcstar 291]

13 hours ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

The worst start in Premier League history after four matches was Swindon Town in the 93/94 season with 0 points and -12 goal difference.
 

Both us and Arsenal are on 0 points and -9 goal difference... whilst it would be extremely funny if it was Arsenal, we’re absolutely taking this record aren’t we? 

Who has the worst start after 3 matches?  Who has the worst start after 5?  It's not really a record that is worth writing down is it.

[Google Bot 3,275]

In Chess they use an ELO ranking system to build their leader boards and has been used in gaming too - basically it takes into account the level of your opponent.  I often think that the stats in Football should have some kind of weight like that applied.

If we did start to pick up well in the coming months, this particular stat is more indicative of the opposition and makes it even more meaningless than the duration used to determine what a prem league 'start' relates to.

The only stats that bother me is as posted above, when they ignore our championship season and then start to imply that we've not won for 2 years.  It just comes across as a dig out at us.

[Nuff Said 5,137]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

In Chess they use an ELO ranking system to build their leader boards and has been used in gaming too - basically it takes into account the level of your opponent.  I often think that the stats in Football should have some kind of weight like that applied.

 

They ask Jeff Lynne?

[Uncle Fred 526]

It’s a bit of data that is factually correct, we have set a premier league record but not in a good way either 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,163]

13 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

It’s a bit of data that is factually correct, we have set a premier league record but not in a good way either 

No you giant clown - we HAVEN'T set a premier league record!! Try reading the original post properly.

[Uncle Fred 526]

4 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

No you giant clown - we HAVEN'T set a premier league record!! Try reading the original post properly.

I am using predictive analytics to look at the situation come 6pm on Saturday 

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

43 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I am using all of my IQ to the best of my ability,  please forgive  the stupidity  of  my post..... this is what happens when  you give a keyboard  to a cretin. 

Sorted😇😉👍

[paddycanary 539]

2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

They ask Jeff Lynne?

That reply came Out of the Blue!

[Nuff Said 5,137]

4 minutes ago, paddycanary said:

That reply came Out of the Blue!

 

[C.I.D 302]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

I am using predictive analytics to look at the situation come 6pm on Saturday 

Sounds bloody painful tbh.Can you get a pill from your GP to cure that ? 😉

[Essjayess 307]

17 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Even if we do, it’s a nonsense statistic. 

Just like the “losing streak” that completely ignores the championship winning season in the middle. 

Brentford are unbeaten in the top flight since something daft like 1947. 

You play everyone twice. We’ve had the 2020 champions at home, the 2021 champions away and the 2021 FA Cup winners at home. We’ve been beaten comfortably twice and deserved something out of the Leicester game.

Arsenal away? It’s an opportunity for sure but is one, I suspect, that most fans expected nothing from. But we’ve got something there way more recently than some fixtures. They don’t seem in a great place but with the likes of Saka, Aubameyang, Odegaard and Lacazette, they have players that are match winners. If we get rolled over 3 or 4 then I expect we’ll all be concerned and rightly so, but let’s not **** ourselves, they’re not a relegation contender.

I’d take a point but hope for three. I reckon a fair amount of Gooners hope we get the three too as it will undoubtedly mean the end of Arteta. 

Awww cmon DE its not nonsensical if it actually happens even though it mat noy be of great importance. You bring in a pretty daft stat i agree about Brentford, but youve brung that in as a weird kind of "compare this" situation to stat records that City are breaking in very short time frames, and both good ones and bad ones at that.

Take a look at last season, City recorded their highest ever 2nd tier points total at 97, set a new record  for away points in a 2nd tier season for all clubs, ditto for away wins and equalled Sunderland and Middlesboro's record of being Champions of 2nd tier two consecutive times.

Also the only team to get promoted to Prem  and relegated to Champs in all available ways and in just  about a decade at that, the only club in any division ever to finish above 50% matches drawn, probably (confirmation  needed) the only side ever to finish in top 3 of Prem with a minus goal difference  and now chasing (maybe not a choice description) down Sunderland's record of 20 Consecutive defeats (that was over 2 Prem seasons but is factually correct).

The stat of worst start after 4 games may be of minor importance compared to the above but hey stats are stats and City's record ones show both good and bad.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Stats are only as good as the people that use them and quite often it is possible to make a good stat look bad, and a bad stat look good, depending on the spin you want to put on it, so stats are quite often pointless.

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,163]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

I am using predictive analytics to look at the situation come 6pm on Saturday 

Are these the same predictive analytics that came up with the prediction 'Bournemouth will have too much for us' just before we smashed them 6 - 0? 

Do remind me not to come to you for betting tips anytime soon. 🤣😂

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

It’s not entirely without merit though, an article on BBC last month showed that getting a good start in first ten games is crucial to survival in premiership. Teams that start slowly have traditionally struggled to catch up. 
 

what worries me is that a loss to Arsenal turns Watford into a must win. Lose that and we really are backs to the wall. And whilst bad records don’t ultimately mean much- successful teams don’t tend to accumulate them! 
 

let’s hope the new boys bed in fast and turn things around 

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

39 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s not entirely without merit though, an article on BBC last month showed that getting a good start in first ten games is crucial to survival in premiership. Teams that start slowly have traditionally struggled to catch up. 
 

what worries me is that a loss to Arsenal turns Watford into a must win. Lose that and we really are backs to the wall. And whilst bad records don’t ultimately mean much- successful teams don’t tend to accumulate them! 
 

let’s hope the new boys bed in fast and turn things around 

How can anyone argue with that appraisal. Arsenal are shocking at the moment, let’s not have excuses at the ready to justify a defeat. We have a decent ammunition to give this a good go on Saturday. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,233]

I don’t know. I’m hardly any authority on historical (and completely meaningless) statistics, but, we didn’t win for how many games under Worthington at the start of his Prem season? I haven’t looked but pretty sure it was 13 or 14. We started the last game of the season outside the bottom 3 only to absolutely capitulate despite being well in the game at Fulham until their second goal. 

Wasn’t that the season that the “no team that’s been bottom at Xmas ever survives” myth was exploded? 

And, yeah, having 0 points after 4 games is definitely worse than having even 1 point. However, I would still take a modicum of solace that we’ve only got to play Citeh, Chelsea and the BinDippers once more.

Does anyone know what the worst possible Premier League start is after 11 games? 

[hogesar 9,666]

50 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

How can anyone argue with that appraisal. Arsenal are shocking at the moment, let’s not have excuses at the ready to justify a defeat. We have a decent ammunition to give this a good go on Saturday. 

Excuses at the ready? I mean it would hardly be a shock to the footballing world if Arsenal beat us, would it? It would be much more of a shock the other way round, anyway.

As for DCB finding negative merit in something; its a talent hes had for a while.

[Midlands Yellow 3,980]

5 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Excuses at the ready? I mean it would hardly be a shock to the footballing world if Arsenal beat us, would it? It would be much more of a shock the other way round, anyway.

As for DCB finding negative merit in something; its a talent hes had for a while.

You know what I mean Hoggy, We have the arsenal now to go for the Arsenal. Points mean prizes and we need to start gathering some soon. I’m confident we will and hopefully sooner rather than later. 

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

Bad start, bad Xmas, bad Easter, bad run-in, it should all equal out in the end.

Watford and others have yet to play Liverpool away, Citeh at home and Leicester away. Are they likely to get anything more than a point at most from these three games?

Arsenal themselves have nil points from a much easier start.

The confidence factor, and mention of that creeping feeling of déjà vu, are valid, though. Existing players are more likely to succumb than the new boys, who will be raring to fly.

Three points from this Arsenal team before they get their act together would do wonders for our prospects this season. 

It's in the balance.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

If you want a little more pessimism: 

People keep pointing out that we have played the hard games- but last time out we did better against top half sides than those around us. There are no easy games and our tippy tappy tactics tend to come unstuck against the big bully brutes in the lower half of the table. Now given that we haven’t changed tactically- what is to say things will be different? 

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

Three points Saturday and I will feel much more optimistic…but then how many wins in London in the Premiership ever? 

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

51 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

If you want a little more pessimism: 

People keep pointing out that we have played the hard games- but last time out we did better against top half sides than those around us. There are no easy games and our tippy tappy tactics tend to come unstuck against the big bully brutes in the lower half of the table. Now given that we haven’t changed tactically- what is to say things will be different? 

Let's look on the brighter side.

We now have a completely different side from the last time around, so comparisons with that experience might not be particularly valid, assuming Farke has learned his lessons well.

We are now a different animal and a comparison of the for/against columns of the last two Championship promotions confirms this. 

Saturday will tell us a lot.

With a considerable new input of players and with the way the pre-season was disrupted the horrendous start we all shivered at might not now have been a bad thing. Some so-called 'free-hit' games are disposed of, meaning more so-called 'easier' games are in store for when we are fully up and integrated.

[AJ 1,218]

On 08/09/2021 at 12:18, OTBC06 said:

Sheff Utd had a shocking start last year didn't they?

Lost their first 4 but with a GD of -5.

Lost the 4th of those games to Arsenal 2-1, then drew 1-1 with Fulham the following week before losing their next 8 games in a row. They didn't see a victory until their 18th game of the season, Ouch!

[OTBC06 41]

17 hours ago, AJ said:

Lost their first 4 but with a GD of -5.

Lost the 4th of those games to Arsenal 2-1, then drew 1-1 with Fulham the following week before losing their next 8 games in a row. They didn't see a victory until their 18th game of the season, Ouch!

Thought it was bad, but didn't quite remember it being that bad. I hope we are significantly better than that!!