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1 minute ago, shefcanary said:

Does this mean Emi still hasn't made his full debut yet for Argentina?  Looking destined not to happen .......

He wasn’t even on the bench I don’t think, Shef!

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Hope they are locked up for several weeks in Brazil but even if not surely they will have to quarantine now when back in the uk and miss a couple of games?

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3 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

He wasn’t even on the bench I don’t think, Shef!

If that's the case it seems a really foolhardy trip to have made; his reputation with Villa will have taken a hit.

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24 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Hope they are locked up for several weeks in Brazil but even if not surely they will have to quarantine now when back in the uk and miss a couple of games?

already left the country on a plane. - and not quarantining when they are back in england as they are going to croatia first to avoid it.

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3 minutes ago, Haus said:

already left the country on a plane. - and not quarantining when they are back in england as they are going to croatia first to avoid it.

I hope that’s not true, if it is that indicates even more one rule for the rich and another for everybody else. Don’t know about Spurs but Villa had already allowed that they had to quarantine on their return before they went, as they are the rules, hence why Villa asked them not to go.

Will they now say they haven’t been in Brazil or Argentina in the last few days to avoid quarantine here ?

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12 minutes ago, Haus said:

already left the country on a plane. - and not quarantining when they are back in england as they are going to croatia first to avoid it.

But they are having to stay 10 days in Croatia which means they will miss at least 1, maybe 2 games. If Argentina stays a red list country this would have been a bit of an unforeseen problem for us if we'd kept Emi. He's going to miss 5 or 6 games for Villa over the next few months if they have to do the same thing every time as they have games in October and November as well. 

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5 minutes ago, Well b back said:

I hope that’s not true, if it is that indicates even more one rule for the rich and another for everybody else. Don’t know about Spurs but Villa had already allowed that they had to quarantine on their return before they went, as they are the rules, hence why Villa asked them not to go.

Will they now say they haven’t been in Brazil or Argentina in the last few days to avoid quarantine here ?

If  that's the case then, considering the enormous wage paid to them by the club, it is surely a case of putting two fingers up to their paymasters and the Villa faithful. 

They could both now miss quite a few games in the worst case scenario and the patience of the club will be severely tested. There could be trouble ahead.  

 

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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Brazil have been stricter with the Argentine players than.... *checks notes*... their actual country

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2 minutes ago, kirku said:

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Brazil have been stricter with the Argentine players than.... *checks notes*... their actual country

Indeed, and assuming this game does not get awarded to Brazil, then there’s another fixture that Emi will have to fly out for on top of everything else. Will be very interesting to see how Villa handle the next round of international fixtures in a few weeks time - not sure an unhappy Emi will be a beneficial Emi, but then a missing Emi won’t be either!

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16 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Indeed, and assuming this game does not get awarded to Brazil, then there’s another fixture that Emi will have to fly out for on top of everything else. Will be very interesting to see how Villa handle the next round of international fixtures in a few weeks time - not sure an unhappy Emi will be a beneficial Emi, but then a missing Emi won’t be either!

Was just going to add that. If the game is replayed, will it be during a non international break? Could prove a nightmare for Villa.

If he's not even on the bench it will provide a bit of tension.

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1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Was just going to add that. If the game is replayed, will it be during a non international break? Could prove a nightmare for Villa.

If he's not even on the bench it will provide a bit of tension.

It will certainly be interesting to see how this plays out, Pants, I’m just grateful it’s not our problem!

It’s just been confirmed that the players knew full well they were breaking the Brazilian law, having provided false information in the first place, and extraordinarily, even after a meeting between all parties on Saturday, Argentina decided to hold training in the evening regardless completely ignoring what they’d been told. They also barricaded the dressing room in an attempt to prevent the authorities intervening. Disgusting stuff really - again, I’m just pleased it’s not our problem!

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3 hours ago, kirku said:

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that Brazil have been stricter with the Argentine players than.... *checks notes*... their actual country

I am happy to be proved wrong, but the Brazilian side was weak as they did not break the rules. Also as I understand it Argentina knew the rules and decided to ignore them ( hence why the game could well be awarded to Brazil ), to the extent that the 4 players concerned lied to obtain entry without quarantine.

I appreciate players that we love can ‘ do no wrong ‘ but if what is being reported is factual, then Emi was quite happy to put the U.K. and Brazil at risk from a variant ( however small that risk ). 
Do they have to have work permits to play in the U.K. ? I guess Emi does, if so aren’t they taken away if you get a criminal record.

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7 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Was just going to add that. If the game is replayed, will it be during a non international break? Could prove a nightmare for Villa.

If he's not even on the bench it will provide a bit of tension.

Will the 4 players be allowed back into  Brazil?

And if they are allowed back, then if Villa/Spurs don't release them they could be banned from domestic action anyway? 

 

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12 hours ago, Well b back said:

I hope that’s not true, if it is that indicates even more one rule for the rich and another for everybody else. Don’t know about Spurs but Villa had already allowed that they had to quarantine on their return before they went, as they are the rules, hence why Villa asked them not to go.

Will they now say they haven’t been in Brazil or Argentina in the last few days to avoid quarantine here ?

We've been here before though haven't we? Borris Johnson's father, Stanley, 'fudged' the lockdown rules...

To me, what is even more sad, is that this episode suggests that more may have gone on last summer/autumn than the club has let on in regards to his attitude. Clearly Buendia didn't care and was willing to put people and his club who pay his wages at risk of chastisement from footballing authorities, international authorities and domestic footballing authorities.

Sure, he wasn't the only one, and the Argentinian football team including coaches etc all should be lambasted. Wouldn't surprise me if they were kicked out of the tournament... I think it could blow up to be that big a deal.

If we get any benefit from it due to Villa dropping points etc, then I hope the Villa fans rightly blame him. The only issue for us is if he gets a ban of some sort, it means any add ons related to appearances - domestically or internationally, or goals etc may well be longer in the making.

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16 hours ago, Well b back said:

I am happy to be proved wrong, but the Brazilian side was weak as they did not break the rules. Also as I understand it Argentina knew the rules and decided to ignore them ( hence why the game could well be awarded to Brazil ), to the extent that the 4 players concerned lied to obtain entry without quarantine.

I appreciate players that we love can ‘ do no wrong ‘ but if what is being reported is factual, then Emi was quite happy to put the U.K. and Brazil at risk from a variant ( however small that risk ). 
Do they have to have work permits to play in the U.K. ? I guess Emi does, if so aren’t they taken away if you get a criminal record.

To be honest, I'm not really aware of the details of this - I just wanted to make the point that Brazil under Bolsonaro has done an absolutely awful job of containing Covid and so it seems somewhat hypocritical to now turn the screw on 4 foreign (from their biggest rival, no less) athletes who will be amongst the most tested and healthy people to have entered their country recently.

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16 hours ago, Well b back said:

I am happy to be proved wrong, but the Brazilian side was weak as they did not break the rules. Also as I understand it Argentina knew the rules and decided to ignore them ( hence why the game could well be awarded to Brazil ), to the extent that the 4 players concerned lied to obtain entry without quarantine.

I appreciate players that we love can ‘ do no wrong ‘ but if what is being reported is factual, then Emi was quite happy to put the U.K. and Brazil at risk from a variant ( however small that risk ). 
Do they have to have work permits to play in the U.K. ? I guess Emi does, if so aren’t they taken away if you get a criminal record.

Nothing a little bit of a back hand won't resolve I'm sure.

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16 hours ago, Well b back said:

I am happy to be proved wrong, but the Brazilian side was weak as they did not break the rules. Also as I understand it Argentina knew the rules and decided to ignore them ( hence why the game could well be awarded to Brazil ), to the extent that the 4 players concerned lied to obtain entry without quarantine.

I appreciate players that we love can ‘ do no wrong ‘ but if what is being reported is factual, then Emi was quite happy to put the U.K. and Brazil at risk from a variant ( however small that risk ). 
Do they have to have work permits to play in the U.K. ? I guess Emi does, if so aren’t they taken away if you get a criminal record.

You can still get a UK work permit if you have a criminal record - depending on what the crime is of course. Rule of thumb is that if there was a sentence less than 12 months in jail you should be okay. 

Brazil has a different and specific rule for people entering from the UK - where they operate this 14 day quarantine period as a ****-for-tat policy as the UK has them on the 'red list'.

The Premier League made a statement that clubs who had players that needed to go to on international duty to red list countries could refuse to release them. As every South American country is red listed it was a bigger impact of the South American players than European ones, where only a few countries are red listed. Rashica and Kabak both missed games as there were in red listed countries, but could still join up with their national teams for other games.

FIFA rules state that clubs cannot refuse to release their players for international duty if the country and player requests it. There are potential repercussions coming down the line for the Premier League from FIFA for telling clubs they could refuse to release players.

Villa agreed with Martinez and Buendia that they could go and play for Argentina (both players are desperate to represent their country and qualifying for the next world cup is seen as particularly important as it will likely be Messi's last) , but would have to leave as soon as the Brazil game was played to go to a Croatian island where they would be able to train outdoors still, but would need to remain there for 10 days. Clubs were not only worried about players missing matches due to quarantine but also being stuck in a small hotel room, unable to train or exercise and being limited to food from the hotel's restaurant.

It seems the Argentinian FA had overlooked Brazil's specific UK policy when they called up the players (as had Villa) - how much the players knew about this is unclear. They would likely presume that their FA had sorted all this out for them (as normally happens in these things when players require entry permits, visas to enter countries for international duty).

 

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3 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

It seems the Argentinian FA had overlooked Brazil's specific UK policy when they called up the players (as had Villa) - how much the players knew about this is unclear. They would likely presume that their FA had sorted all this out for them (as normally happens in these things when players require entry permits, visas to enter countries for international duty).

 

But they were also aware enough to lie about not being in present in the UK for the past 14 days on entry to Brazil, if they weren't privy to any of the rules and believed the FA were on top of all of it then I'm not sure where the need to lie comes from? 

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6 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

But they were also aware enough to lie about not being in present in the UK for the past 14 days on entry to Brazil, if they weren't privy to any of the rules and believed the FA were on top of all of it then I'm not sure where the need to lie comes from? 

That isn't confirmed yet, and it is doubtful that the players themselves would do this paperwork as these things are usually left to the FA. There is also quarantine free travel within South America for footballers, so the Argentinians are saying that Brazil moved the goalposts to disrupt the Argentinian squad. 

Brazil didn't enforce any quarantine periods while they were holding the Copa America in the summer either. 

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