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Ipswich's Chief Executive Officer (CEO)

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I am not really into the worst excesses of club rivalries. I think there are things in life worth getting worked up about for good reason, without bringing sport into it.

But I do think the criticism levelled at Ipswich CEO Mark Ashton from the fans of his previous employers, Bristol City, is extremely interesting. Ipswich may have a tiger by the tail, (or perhaps he has them by some other part of the anatomy).

https://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?/topic/213244-the-office-uk-ipswich-town-edition/page/9/

This is quite aside from the hoary old question of what the Hell a pension fund is doing, investing money in a non-Premier League football club.

There are so many things to be happy about with NCFC at the moment that I feel guilty distracting attention, but I really couldn't let the moment pass. It will all come out in the wash, of course.

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A football club is being bank rolled by an American firefighter/police pension fund. Is this type of thing common? 

I feel I'm a risk taker but I dont think I'd want my retirement bank rolling a 3rd tier football club on another continent.

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I've followed quite a bit of 'their' transfer window and media coverage. To be honest, it would appear that they've done pretty well in their recruitment. In particular, the lad Fraser from MK, Celina and Morsy are impressive signings for an L1 club.

They still have some issues defensively which has hampered them in the early part of the season but I suspect they are going to have a strong season once the squad beds in. That said, they've given most of their rivals a 7+ point advantage and so automatics isn't going to be an easy task even with only 5 games gone. If they fail in the playoffs then a significant amount of investment will have gone towards another unsuccessful season and a fourth year in L1 will beckon. With Sheff Weds and Sunderland going well I do think top two will be tough to achieve for them. If Berahino comes off he will be streets ahead of that division.

I don't see much to criticise thus far in what Ashton has done though.

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Just now, Beetehleets said:

A football club is being bank rolled by an American firefighter/police pension fund. Is this type of thing common? 

I feel I'm a risk taker but I dont think I'd want my retirement bank rolling a 3rd tier football club on another continent.

It doesn't really work like that. It's an enormous pension fund and the fund is placed into a large number of investments with varying levels of risk. Most of it will be in very safe ventures. A small portion in high risk ventures like ITFC.

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9 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

It doesn't really work like that. It's an enormous pension fund and the fund is placed into a large number of investments with varying levels of risk. Most of it will be in very safe ventures. A small portion in high risk ventures like ITFC.

But I don’t understand how the return could be any good? You’re supposed to trade risk for potential return.
 

The fund will need a regular return so fans should always expect to see money coming out of the clubs finances, not being ploughed back into transfer market on better players. 

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4 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

It doesn't really work like that. It's an enormous pension fund and the fund is placed into a large number of investments with varying levels of risk. Most of it will be in very safe ventures. A small portion in high risk ventures like ITFC.

If they get into the premiership their investment will be a 10 bagger at least. Even if it takes them 10 or even 20 years to do it will be worth doing.

They have bought an existing business which is debt free at a knock down price. They have a board of directors who know how to monetise and run a sports and entertainment business.

It wouldn't be a surprise if they hadn't already increased the value of their investment just by getting the crowds back.

These people know what they are doing. The pensioners will not be fretting.

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2 minutes ago, Bonzo said:

If they get into the premiership their investment will be a 10 bagger at least. Even if it takes them 10 or even 20 years to do it will be worth doing.

They have bought an existing business which is debt free at a knock down price. They have a board of directors who know how to monetise and run a sports and entertainment business.

It wouldn't be a surprise if they hadn't already increased the value of their investment just by getting the crowds back.

These people know what they are doing. The pensioners will not be fretting.

Fair enough, it’s probably a ‘knock it into shape and sell it on’ job - which could be a very nice return indeed.

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6 minutes ago, Beetehleets said:

A football club is being bank rolled by an American firefighter/police pension fund. Is this type of thing common? 

I feel I'm a risk taker but I dont think I'd want my retirement bank rolling a 3rd tier football club on another continent.

I take as much interest in them as any and often visit their site. It's a  schadenfreude thing really and probably wouldn't bother if the positions of the two clubs were reversed.

The bile and nonsense frequently aimed at NCFC on TWTD is enough to ensure that.

I, too, cannot make any sense of the takeover whatsoever. It's doomed to failure, imo. The binners console themselves with the fact that multimillion pound pension funds like to spread their bets and are there comfortable with such a high level of risk.

This, however, is something else. It's more p-issing money against the wall than sensible investment ...... even in the long-term.

Perhaps when the Americans visited Portman Road for the first time, they assumed all those statues were made of gold.

The elation down there reminds me of when Evans took over, and we know how that ended up.

Promotion from L.1. is inevitable this season, with Premier League football not far off is what most of them seem to believe.

Yeah! Yeah! 

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Yeah as Bonzo says, the plan in the short term will be to make losses with the objective of reaching the Premier League to produce a return on the investment. 

It's a plan that is somewhat unlikely to come to fruition, hence a high risk investment, but could produce good returns within a relatively short number of years.

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11 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

Yeah as Bonzo says, the plan in the short term will be to make losses with the objective of reaching the Premier League to produce a return on the investment. 

It's a plan that is somewhat unlikely to come to fruition, hence a high risk investment, but could produce good returns within a relatively short number of years.

How Beefy?

 

It will need one hell of a turnaround. The costs are already piling up on top of the initial £30m and the business (ITFC) traditionally loses money to the tune of around £6m per annum.

ITFC is not a particularly glamorous club, without massive support or worldwide appeal, and it was purchased with limited fixed assets ... a lease for the ground, a training ground and some unkempt stands. Goodwill virtually limited to Suffolk.  

It's a long shot expecting returns from that car crash, imo.

Edited by BroadstairsR
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An interesting concept. Pension Funds can act as venture capital investors or equity investments, but this is usually for startups and quick-growth/low-risk business plans. They perhaps feel there’s growth to be made in taking a rubbish club (hehe) and hoping they do well. But this is extremely high risk and not usually done with people’s retirement money.

Investment Trusts also get involved when acting as administrators – looking to cover the debt and recover any possible credit by slicing up the assets. The situation does look precarious for them. 

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11 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

How Beefy?

 

It will need one hell of a turnaround. The costs are already piling up on top of the initial £30m and the business (ITFC) traditionally loses money to the tune of around £6m per annum.

ITFC is not a particularly glamorous club, without massive support or worldwide appeal, and it was purchased with limited fixed assets ... a lease for the ground, a training ground and some unkempt stands. Goodwill virtually limited to Suffolk.  

It's a long shot expecting returns from that car crash, imo.

Without worldwide appeal? Didnt you know they have a glorious history that they never talk about? Bobby Robson, Alf Ramsey, UEFA Cup etc etc etc.

It's all Evans fault that they've been rubbish for 40 years. Evans and Lambert. If it werent for those pesky ****s messing up their massive club they'd have been nailed on for the European Super League.

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Well whatever happens, at least they'll always have their font used for the Ipswich Town logo/text on the stand.

Remember - "that means something" 

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I can't remember where, but I read some analysis recently suggesting the biggest gap in the football pyramid isn't that between The Championship and the Premier League, but that between League 1 and The Championship. Certainly Wycombe and Rotherham went straight back down last season and Hull went back up. As we all know the Championship is a really tough league to get out of and the instances recently of clubs doing what we did under Lambert and going straight up through the divisions is a lot rarer. 

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1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

So Ashton is a self loving self righteous wage stealing bellwhiff ?

Love it. 😂

There was a bizarre early interview with Ashton. He referenced the new ground that Brizzle play at , but later in the interview said he couldn’t take any credit for it . It seems he just rabbits on without a lot of substance. 
I recall posting before about the league position of Brizzle after Ashton joined . He wasn’t around when they came up from League 1 (something else he couldn’t take any credit for) and their league position was mid table with one year where they furnished 8th I think. 
I can’t really see his value . 
I wonder how dear old Simon Clegg is these days . “There’s a small club to the North of us “ and all that . 

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There aren't many people-in fact probably none-who had anything good to say about his time as CEO at Watford-and he resigned from Wycombe pretty sharpish too.

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What I don’t really understand in this business ‘model’ is that it seems to hinge on getting to the Premier League in order to strike it rich… But surely, from our own experience, you’re not really much better off getting promoted as you then have to invest millions in players/wages etc. wiping out all those Sky millions. Anyway, I’m certainly  glad my pension isn’t invested in Binner PLC…

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4 hours ago, Bonzo said:

If they get into the premiership their investment will be a 10 bagger at least. Even if it takes them 10 or even 20 years to do it will be worth doing.

They have bought an existing business which is debt free at a knock down price. They have a board of directors who know how to monetise and run a sports and entertainment business.

It wouldn't be a surprise if they hadn't already increased the value of their investment just by getting the crowds back.

These people know what they are doing. The pensioners will not be fretting.

I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it could be a 10 bagger or even more. It is reported that they paid 40 million for Ipswich  - even if they reach the Premier League, a club that does not even own its own ground, won't sell anything like 400 million.

Any further investment will mean that the 40 million cost increases, all that they have to dilute their ownership and therefore potential return. 

Edited by Badger
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9 hours ago, Badger said:

I'm not sure how you arrive at the conclusion that it could be a 10 bagger or even more. It is reported that they paid 40 million for Ipswich  - even if they reach the Premier League, a club that does not even own its own ground, won't sell anything like 400 million.

Any further investment will mean that the 40 million cost increases, all that they have to dilute their ownership and therefore potential return. 

Quite.

How much would the bill for all this have reached after ten years?

The club has consistently lost money even during Evans' frugal reign. There is neither the marketing potential in nor support for ITFC to suggest otherwise, unless they buy well and sell on for (big) profit (Maddison Buendia) or produce their own for selling. Both long shots as things stand, and perhaps not quite as easy as clubs like Brentford, Southampton and, of course, City  have made it appear. Cook doesn't seem particularly savvy in the former respect, currently opting for many of his previous favourites or Championship rejects in the transfer market, and their Cat. 2 status combined with their apparent shelving of anything like an ambitious approach to their youth policy (eg. Liam Gibbs to NCFC for a tribunal fee) forebodes badly for the latter.

Irrespective of all this, they will also be competing with a multitude of other clubs currently higher in the footballing pyramid, with greater support, equally well financed and with far greater assets who have the same goal in mind. The deluded 'binners' see it as a clear run. They are the "Pride of Anglia," after all and have all that history to call upon. 

From all angles this is a barmy investment, whatever the risk or perceived term, and seems the sort to get fund managers the sack, especially those responsible for people's pensions and not for the fortunes of high risk investors.

Whoever pushed for this in the USA clearly has not done their homework regards the financial implications of investing in the professional game in England. It was not as if they didn't have the precedent set by Marcus Evans, with similar intentions for the club and his bank balance, to shine the red light.

Selling off the training ground for housing and development of part of the Portman Road site, not the football ground ... (a hotel has already been mentioned, along with a variety of expensive space-age projects) would seem to be the only escape route should/when things go pear shaped, but this is far removed from success on the field of play, and it's Ipswich Town we are talking about here.

I am truly, truly fascinated with it all. It would seem to sum up a lot of what is and will be wrong in the game, with so much throwing of good money after bad and so much risked for the Premier League dream and the perceived profit and esteem that this involves once realised. Furthermore, it's happening on our doorstep, at our rival's home.

Ipswich Town Football Club, the gift that keeps on giving.  

 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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One of the owners of Gamechanger was asked if they were considering moving the club. Being an American he assumed the interviewer meant moving the franchise closer to London. He replied that he thought there would be a lot of resistance to that from supporters. He didn't say "no, we'd never do that", he said no because it's problematic. Absolutely terrifying. 

I thought that Cook would be a good appointment but I was told yesterday that he doesn't have the same support staff that he had at previous clubs. That sounds vaguely familiar 😂

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Cook seems very 'old school' to me. A lower league managerial bruiser who would be like a fish out of water in the Premier League.

The contrast with Farke's thoughtful, technical and detailed approach to the job seems like chalk and cheese.

 Paul Merson to Gareth Southgate?

Boris Johnson to Dominic Cummings? 😂😂

Rick Parfitt to Jimmy Page??

Al Murray to Sean Lock?

Cook's four wins in about twenty games is a worse record than Paul Lambert's and already has some of the more discerning binners questioning his credentials.

 

 

 

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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One of the owners Brett Johnson was on an Athletic pod recently. Whilst reaching the Premier league is the obvious way to increase the value of the club and sell it on I didn't get the impression that's what they are looking to do and that they are likely happy enough getting into the championship.

When questioned about how you make money for the pension fund he spoke a lot about how the potential is in taking money from transfer fees received. So, rather than our model or Brentfords whereby the money all gets reinvested into infrastructure and new signings in the aim of pushing the club on further they intend to take out part of any transfer fees received to pay back their initial investments. Then any money left over will be to buy replacements in the hope of selling them on again in the future and take more money out/invest again.

He spoke about how this involves putting in a strong recruitment structure to spot the gems. So it seems strange that they let Cook pick and choose this season and perform a massive overhaul of the squad rather than go down our route of employing a Webber type to oversee it first and setting out a clear idea of what's going to happen. Webber was insistent from the start 3 transfer windows were needed before we would see progress but they seem to have thrown everything at this first one (possibly hoping to pay lower fees whilst other teams struggle financially).

Johnson also spoke about football being behind the times and not yet embracing modern ways of working which are more widespread in US sports. Then handed over to Ashton who is an old school football CEO! All rather strange and felt a little like them saying the right things but offering up a slightly better funded version of what they did already under Evans and hoping they sign a couple of players they can sell on in a few years time.

No idea how it will go for them but am sure it will be interesting to watch from afar.

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Johnson (and the two others) must have had a coherent strategy in order to persuade the fund managers to part with their millions.

If it's a question of just buying players with a view to profit and not re-investment in the squad, then the binners have been well and truly duped (easily done?) as many of them now, once again, see the sky as the limit for their team.

It would appear to be a long shot regards Cook's recruitment, but Ashton has been successful with this approach in the past; data based recruitment, apparently. All a bit hit-and-miss and the pair of them will need to be pretty damn good at it from now on in order to service the losses and the debt, whilst keeping the fans onside.

I would suggest that the fund managers have been conned as well, or are excessively naive regards the potential profit from the English game, and have  been uncharacteristically careless with the fund's money to boot.

I wonder what collateral was needed, apart from hot air, as there was little on offer from deepest Suffolk, apart from the training ground. 

There's something so fishy about the whole business that Mortimer and Whitehouse might be more suited to the job than Ashton and Cook.

Like you say, interesting to watch from afar.

Edited by BroadstairsR

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@BroadstairsR Johnsson is involved at at other clubs already so has some experience (USA and Denmark) to draw on, this model isn't new to him or the fund albeit Ipswich are the highest profile investment. He did remark that as long as fans see a part of the money made invested back in the squad (particularly if it is younger players is what I think he said) they are quite forgiving.

For it to work, the championship is probably the right place because a sale of a top asset can easily generate £20-25m and is enough to create a profit if your wage bill is kept in sensible order.  In that situation I think you are right, keeping fans onside would be a struggle as every fan wants to see some level of ambition beyond generating a profit.

 

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34 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

Johnson (and the two others) must have had a coherent strategy in order to persuade the fund managers to part with their millions.

Indeed.

I also don't understand how it's going to work for the fund. I posted this when the news first broke:

Quote

I can see the rationale with Burnley, lower cost base than most clubs and stable in the PL. You can see the business case for profit in that circumstance.

Ipswich? They have few assets of any value and the investment required to get them back into the PL would be huge, and even then they'd need to be in the PL for a good few years to even approach Burnley's approx £250m valuation. I don't get it.

 

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There are plenty of ways to make a profit out of a football team without getting into the Premier League. If Ipswich can get into the Championship and implement a Brentford style model, the fund managers in America will be quite happy with the returns I'm sure - as mentioned previously on this thread they won't be looking at the next few years, but will look at this as a long-term investment, that tends to be what pension funds prioritise.

If they can get Ipswich into the Championship and then they will already almost certainly have an asset worth more than the £40m they spent, and if they can develop a few £500k players into £10m players then they are laughing. 

In a fund worth more than a billion dollars, a £40m investment is very small. 

Rivalry aside, it will be really interesting to see how they get on at Ipswich - Ashton did some good work at Bristol, but made some crucial mistakes when it looked like they were getting close to being a play-off/promotion contender.

It takes time to implement a good recruitment team - Webber was lucky at Norwich as behind the scenes there was a good foundation, it just needed to be given more influence and the key appointments of Scott and Badlan. Lee Darnbrough had done good work in setting up the data side of things and many of the people he brought in are still at the club.

Whether it is possible for someone to copy the Brentford model with the new work permit rules is another matter though. No more Maupay, Benrahma type signings. 

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The problem with the “get to the Championship then make a profit from player sales” model is that it surely wouldn’t take many seasons before supporters will be up in arms? I know it worked for Brentford and they kept the fans onside, but hoping to emulate or do better than the best example in all four leagues is extremely optimistic.

 

I guess I’m also assuming the binners will be arsed - maybe getting out of League 1 will be enough to keep them happy for a few years.

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My experience of fund managers is that they watch every cent. It's a results and bonus based occupation, with a queue of wannabees waiting in the wings.

The bigger the risk is only justified by the bigger the profit should it come off. 

There can also considerable flux caused by unexpected events. If low risk investments start to fail then pressure is put upon the viability of those that are high risk or long term, and then the plug can be pulled with ruthless efficiency and the mop up operation begins.

 There has to be more to this deal than just the successful recruitment of young players in order to profit.

There will also be ongoing losses to contend with, unless the situation there is changed overnight.

 

 

Edited by BroadstairsR

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