So who got the better deal?

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Brentford - Kristoffer Ajer - 13.5m

Norwich - Ozan Kabak - Loan with option to buy for 11m

 

2 clubs who will (in all probability) be fighting for survival this season. Which signing is more impressive?

Ajer will more than likely have a wage reduction if they are relegated and a decent resale value, or could be a key part of an immediate return to the PL. A 5 year deal also guarantees a good fee if he has a strong season in a team that will have plenty of defending to do. No PL experience but comes with a good reputation. Keep them up and obviously the fee justifies itself and his value increases.

Kabak has PL experience at the top end and generally a good reputation from Liverpool fans. If we are relegated we won’t be stuck with his PL (or lowered championship) wages. If we stay up we have a strong, pacy CB who can continue to impress with us (assuming he does this season, and keeping us up would be impressive enough) and young enough to develop and command a decent transfer fee should clubs come knocking in the future. Will he have the desire to prove himself and give his all at a loan club? After playing for Liverpool, will he feel above playing for lil ol Norwich? And most importantly, will he be good enough to keep us up?

 

A genuine question and only a slight dig at those that thought we should just pay the extra for Ajer.

Edited August 31, 2021 by Fiery Zac

[Basel_NCFC 7]

But Kabak is a loan to buy based on premier league survival?  So win win based on the outcome of our efforts this season?  Great business. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by Basel_NCFC

[It's me, it's Tettey 4]

I’m relatively confident we have the better player with a higher ceiling. 

That being said, if we go down his ceiling is irrelevant. 

The other factor is the fact Brentford got Ajer early and he has already helped them secure some points which works in their favour. 

Overall too close to call just yet. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

I’d suggest we wait and see them play. Ajer seems to have made a very solid start for Brentford and has already helped earn them 5 points so right now you’d have to say he looks good business for Brentford. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Just now, Jim Smith said:

I’d suggest we wait and see them play. Ajer seems to have made a very solid start for Brentford and has already helped earn them 5 points so right now you’d have to say he looks good business for Brentford. 

Ps if the player is good I’d rather have a permanent asset for which you can realise some value than an option to buy. 

[horsefly 4,297]

16 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Ps if the player is good I’d rather have a permanent asset for which you can realise some value than an option to buy. 

The option to buy has very many advantages. Imagine Ajer has a mare of a season and Brentford get relegated; then they would lose significant money on any future sale (if they could even shift him). If that same scenario happened to Kabak we would lose nothing. Now imagine Kabak has a fantastic season and we stay up; then we get to buy him for the deal already agreed irrespective of the possibility that his value may have sky-rocketed. Seems pretty astute business to me.

[Basel_NCFC 7]

Good call, I mean we all know the quality of the SPL vrs Prem.... Kabab has already played over 10 games for Liverpool and I did hear he was quite unlucky they did not take up the option to keep him. 

He will be fired up to prove himself this season and lucky we will get the benefit of this... 

[ROBFLECK 132]

Too early to tell imo ... I hope we do...

My first reaction was ... Brentford have points on the board , we're leaking goals... But on the whole I think we've done a good piece of business and here's hoping it will work out.

 

[WD40 720]

Brentford +5 points, and only one conceded.

They will be quite happy with where they are. I’d reserve judgement till we have a data set to look back on. 

[BigFish 1,986]

The "too early to say crowd" make me question if some posters understand a message board. This posts that in summary say, I don't have an opinion but I ma going to post anyway and say I will have an opinion on this at the end of the season.

FWIW I think we have a far better deal, I might be wrong but then I am not backsliding on months of carping about the clubs transfer business.

[Nuff Said 5,119]

4 hours ago, Basel_NCFC said:

But Kabak is a loan to buy based on premier league survival?  So win win based on the outcome of our efforts this season?  Great business.

Lose/lose if we go down surely? We lose our Premier League status and a decent player who could help us go back up. (I do realise the advantages of the loan to buy arrangement, just questioning the logic of the phrase)

 

And to those saying Ajar has proved his worth already to Brentford as they have 5 points, did he win those games single-handedly?

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

Whichever club stays up. Mental strength should be improved at Norwich with the steel added post Leicester. We carried some scars of the 19/20 debacle but time to erase them promptly now. 

 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

8 minutes ago, BigFish said:

The "too early to say crowd" make me question if some posters understand a message board. This posts that in summary say, I don't have an opinion but I ma going to post anyway and say I will have an opinion on this at the end of the season.

FWIW I think we have a far better deal, I might be wrong but then I am not backsliding on months of carping about the clubs transfer business.

I’ve never seen Kabak or Ajer play live so hard to have an opinion really. Liverpool fans views are mixed. On the face of it the Kabak deal looks like good business but then so does Ajer based on how he’s slotted in at Brentford. 

[birchfest 397]

19 minutes ago, WD40 said:

Brentford +5 points, and only one conceded.

They will be quite happy with where they are. I’d reserve judgement till we have a data set to look back on. 

I get your point, but I’m not sure they would be on 5 points after Liverpool, Man City and Leicester. Don’t get me wrong, they have done great so far, but it will all start to level out when they don’t come up against a rather crap Arsenal, average palace and a Villa side still getting going. 
 

On the subject, I’d say on paper we have the better player and financially the better deal. Our deal has also allowed us to have money to sign other key positions too.

[birchfest 397]

3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Whichever club stays up. Mental strength should be improved at Norwich with the steel added post Leicester. We carried some scars of the 19/20 debacle but time to erase them promptly now. 

 

11 new players who weren’t involved in that mess.. you’ve got to hope that none of the new boys will be effected by that.

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

7 minutes ago, birchfest said:

11 new players who weren’t involved in that mess.. you’ve got to hope that none of the new boys will be effected by that.

And definite quality too. The numerous relegations from this league have scarred us but the rot should stop at last. 11/10 to stay up for all those who like a healthy interest rate on investments. 

[sgncfc 1,227]

Kabak is a far better player than Ajer, and he will prove it. Good that he was not part of the opening defeats in some ways - he can come in  and help us get a clean sheet at Arsenal.

[Basel_NCFC 7]

40 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Lose/lose if we go down surely? We lose our Premier League status and a decent player who could help us go back up. (I do realise the advantages of the loan to buy arrangement, just questioning the logic of the phrase)

 

And to those saying Ajar has proved his worth already to Brentford as they have 5 points, did he win those games single-handedly?

Kabak on prem wages in championship, no thanks. 

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

2 minutes ago, Basel_NCFC said:

Kabak on prem wages in championship, no thanks. 

Yeah exactly. If we do come back down, we know that Gibson and Hanley are quality at Championship level, plus Omobamidele will be ready for a starting role, and then Tomkinson looks set to become the next Omobamidele (already captain of the U23s and a USA youth international).

[Thirsty Lizard 3,158]

41 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

And definite quality too. The numerous relegations from this league have scarred us but the rot should stop at last. 11/10 to stay up for all those who like a healthy interest rate on investments. 

Laying us to get relegated at the 1.77 currently available on Betfair is a better proposition if you've got an account on there.

Stand to win 0.95 (if you're paying 5% commission) and lose 0.77.

Equates to decimal odds of 2.23 or a shade over 6/5 for those who think in fractional odds. It's an even better proposition if your commission rate on Betfair is 2%! 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

48 minutes ago, BigFish said:

The "too early to say crowd" make me question if some posters understand a message board. This posts that in summary say, I don't have an opinion but I ma going to post anyway and say I will have an opinion on this at the end of the season.

FWIW I think we have a far better deal, I might be wrong but then I am not backsliding on months of carping about the clubs transfer business.

Blimey. Did you wake up and find you'd sh1t the bed? Mr Grumpy needs a coffee.

Message boards are for expressing what you think - whatever that may be. Saying it's 'too early to tell' is a completely acceptable position just as is saying we're done better/worse business than Brentford at CB. I think it's you who fails to understand what a message board is for. 

Personally, I think ours is the more sensible approach taking into account our finances but if we had got Ajer at the right price for us I would have been happy as well.

OTBC

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

3 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Laying us to get relegated at the 1.77 currently available on Betfair is a better proposition if you've got an account on there.

Stand to win 0.95 (if you're paying 5% commission) and lose 0.77.

Equates to decimal odds of 2.23 or a shade over 6/5 for those who think in fractional odds. It's an even better proposition if your commission rate on Betfair is 2%! 

Is that what the layers are offering or do the backers want larger odds?  I’d imagine the market is weak and trading in tenners, I’ll check it out. Many thanks . 

[Fuzzar 1,702]

I think we'd have had to pay more than the £13.5m Brentford paid to secure him, so it's difficult to compare.

There's no denying he was a player we were interested in and maybe he was our first choice. On the face of it I hope we've got the better deal, but only time will tell. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,158]

13 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Is that what the layers are offering or do the backers want larger odds?  I’d imagine the market is weak and trading in tenners, I’ll check it out. Many thanks . 

Yeah - not a huge deal of liquidity in that market at the moment. If it was me I'd jump into the gap and put in a lay at 1.76 - there's a pretty good chance of getting matched there at some point in the next week or so with normal market churn. If not there's a little available at 1.77 and plenty at 1.78 at the moment if you want to get matched straight away. Laying at 1.78 on there is still a better proposition than backing at 11/10 with a fixed odds bookie. (And as I say it's a much better proposition if you're on 2% commission with Betfair). 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

11 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Laying us to get relegated at the 1.77 currently available on Betfair is a better proposition if you've got an account on there.

Stand to win 0.95 (if you're paying 5% commission) and lose 0.77.

Equates to decimal odds of 2.23 or a shade over 6/5 for those who think in fractional odds. It's an even better proposition if your commission rate on Betfair is 2%! 

Southampton and Brentford stand out for me. Saints over 4/1 and the Bees 3/1 to drop on Betfair. 

[Midlands Yellow 3,974]

1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Yeah - not a huge deal of liquidity in that market at the moment. If it was me I'd jump into the gap and put in a lay at 1.76 - there's a pretty good chance of getting matched there at some point in the next week or so with normal market churn. If not there's a little available at 1.77 and plenty at 1.78 at the moment if you want to get matched straight away. Laying at 1.78 on there is still a better proposition than backing at 11/10 with a fixed odds bookie. (And as I say it's a much better proposition if you're on 2% commission with Betfair). 

Yes your bang on the money! Honestly believe we will be trading at the Southampton odds after a dozen matches. 

[Ramrod 258]

Naismith played for, a big club. Gilmour came from Chelsea, Williams from Man Utd. One was useless to us, the other two are rookies. 

It doesn't matter where players come from. It comes down to right Club/right time. 

[1902 1,167]

5 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

I think we'd have had to pay more than the £13.5m Brentford paid to secure him, so it's difficult to compare.

There's no denying he was a player we were interested in and maybe he was our first choice. On the face of it I hope we've got the better deal, but only time will tell. 

Im not sure about first choice, I suspect we thought Kabak would go for far more and earlier in the window and it was only as Schalke got more desperate that Webber would have seen it as a viable option. Id have thought Ajer went for more than we would have guessed as well. Im not sure we operate a list as much a pool who go up and down in the pecking order according to percieved opportunity and expected price. 

We know Webber wanted Billings, we just don't know if he wanted him more than Normann or just thought he could get a better deal when he approached Bournemouth only to be rebuffed. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,158]

32 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Southampton and Brentford stand out for me. Saints over 4/1 and the Bees 3/1 to drop on Betfair. 

🙂 I laughed out loud when I read that. I was just sitting having my breakfast thinking the EXACT SAME THING!! 🙂 

[Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People 122]

1 hour ago, Midlands Yellow said:

And definite quality too. The numerous relegations from this league have scarred us but the rot should stop at last. 11/10 to stay up for all those who like a healthy interest rate on investments. 

Yep i took those odds. Like Bet365 giving away free money😁

Edited August 31, 2021 by Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People