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Have we learned anything from last time?

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2 hours ago, Beefy is a legend said:

There are definitely some similar problems to last time in my view. Most of them in midfield. We don't protect the full backs enough and we don't have the necessary power and athleticism to defend the central areas properly at this level. We let Trybull and Leitner go for reasons associated with that, but I don't see Gilmour as any better at that side of the game.

However, it would be premature to judge after 3 games against top 6 sides, before the window has shut. A CDM addition will be coming, we will have two weeks to work on the shape and personnel. There's a very long way to go.

The plus is that we do, in my view, have greater squad depth. Sargent and Rashica, and also Idah, impressed me today and I think we will be able to change the way we play much more this time around. Plus Tzolis is waiting in the wings. Sargent looks a huge upgrade on Hugill.

In the end 11 goals conceded in 3 games is the glaring stat and improving our defensive game is imperative. We will go down if we don't. 

But there's no way to draw strong conclusions from these 3 games and I would delicately suggest that the naysayers reserve some degree of judgment until we've played 10-12 games. 

Beefy

 

 

A balanced view, thank you.

The exposure of the full backs is alarming and even if our passing game becomes spot on, we are still inviting pressure down the flanks time and time again. We lost our key creator in Emi but also someone fantastic at breaking up play and strong in a tackle. We now have Cantwell and Rashica in those positions and it’s very noticeable their limitations defensively (though Rashica looked better and stronger today). I think Tzolis is much more of the Emi mould and that he’ll have his chance to nail down a starting spot soon (however that is only based on what I can find of his past performances and Tuesday night).

Cantwells apparent instruction to roam about the front 3 positions left us woefully exposed at times and had Pukki scrambling back trying to fill in. I think it’s the ill disciplined wide front pair that has been a real eye opener and what also needs to be addressed.

Where I slightly disagree is the power and athleticism comment. I think PLM and McLean are robust and of sufficient quality to do the box to box role, and look tidy in possession. Is it therefore, Gilmour that is the problem? Do we just need a rock sitting between the other 2 midfielders? Someone to simply win the ball back and then transition. Could a midfield three of a DM, Gilmour and either PLM or McLean be good enough? It leaves Gilmour the freedom to dictate the tempo and start attacks (much like Leitner of old) and leaves PLM as a true box to box or even slightly higher, it was noticeable how high he was getting during our attacks today with a couple leading to long range shots.

 

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I agree with Beefy to an extent. Though I also agree with points made by Fiery Zac.

I think it is hard to compare us to last time out in the prem... yet. In any way. I think DC got some things right even if the results didn't indicate it. And that is that the last time we ran on momentum from the league championship a bit and that we were new comers and were perhaps a little unknown. We seemed to get a bit found out as the season wore on and our main weakness was that we only played one way, and to a certain extent we had to because of a complete lack of defensive depth, experience and competition.

So I guess what I am saying here is that last time we stuck with very much the same side, pretty much unchanged and lost the momentum and then struggled on. This time round feels different. There isn't the momentum as much of the squad is changed. We have altered the formation, we have new players down the spine of the team and because we have made so many signings and had such a rubbish pre season, they are all still working on being a team.

Today was an improvement. It may well be though, that this squad has more legs for the campaign, and not just a good looking but still relatively unsuccessful start that we had last time. The proof is in the pudding though, and at the moment we are still at the mixing bowl stage. 
 

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3 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Webber stated we would learn lessons and that he wouldn’t send Farke out without a gun this time. So my question is- what lessons did we learn and what has been done to address them? 
 

Because from my vantage point we haven’t learned a flipping thing. Still lacking physicality in midfield, still trying to play a championship defence in the premiership, still stubbornly sticking to formation and style that doesn’t cut it for bottom half team, etc etc 

Bottom line it all looks so similar to the last premiership campaign, we don’t seem to have learnt very much at all, 

Delia and Webber take their cues from the numpty fan base who think that you can go out and play football regardless of the opposition. The penny still hasn't dropped with the fans. This is not the Championship. Norwich are not the Man City of that league anymore. The approach has to be a lot more nuanced. Do you see - just like last time Norwich will finish bottom whilst the other two promoted teams stay up. People around here are just plain dumb - doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. And I have to keep coming on here repeating myself over and over. Hogground day.

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35 minutes ago, chicken said:

I agree with Beefy to an extent. Though I also agree with points made by Fiery Zac.

I think it is hard to compare us to last time out in the prem... yet. In any way. I think DC got some things right even if the results didn't indicate it. And that is that the last time we ran on momentum from the league championship a bit and that we were new comers and were perhaps a little unknown. We seemed to get a bit found out as the season wore on and our main weakness was that we only played one way, and to a certain extent we had to because of a complete lack of defensive depth, experience and competition.

So I guess what I am saying here is that last time we stuck with very much the same side, pretty much unchanged and lost the momentum and then struggled on. This time round feels different. There isn't the momentum as much of the squad is changed. We have altered the formation, we have new players down the spine of the team and because we have made so many signings and had such a rubbish pre season, they are all still working on being a team.

Today was an improvement. It may well be though, that this squad has more legs for the campaign, and not just a good looking but still relatively unsuccessful start that we had last time. The proof is in the pudding though, and at the moment we are still at the mixing bowl stage. 
 

Yep I make you right. I see this squad as deeper than two years ago and I do think we are a few games away from seeing Sargent starting games and Tzolis getting his bow. The big if is sorting out that defensive midfield three. I'd like to see whatever CDM we sign playing with Mclean left and Gilmour/PLM right. That feels like it will give us a better balance defensively.

I am pretty positive that performances are going to gradually improve from here and the proof will come when those more winnable games come into view, being Watford, Brighton, Burnley foremost. 

10-12 games in is when I think we will have a decent idea of whether we are going to be competitive this year. 

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26 minutes ago, chicken said:

I agree with Beefy to an extent. Though I also agree with points made by Fiery Zac.

I think it is hard to compare us to last time out in the prem... yet. In any way. I think DC got some things right even if the results didn't indicate it. And that is that the last time we ran on momentum from the league championship a bit and that we were new comers and were perhaps a little unknown. We seemed to get a bit found out as the season wore on and our main weakness was that we only played one way, and to a certain extent we had to because of a complete lack of defensive depth, experience and competition.

So I guess what I am saying here is that last time we stuck with very much the same side, pretty much unchanged and lost the momentum and then struggled on. This time round feels different. There isn't the momentum as much of the squad is changed. We have altered the formation, we have new players down the spine of the team and because we have made so many signings and had such a rubbish pre season, they are all still working on being a team.

Today was an improvement. It may well be though, that this squad has more legs for the campaign, and not just a good looking but still relatively unsuccessful start that we had last time. The proof is in the pudding though, and at the moment we are still at the mixing bowl stage. 
 

Yes I should have also said it’s very much early days. We were warned of a bumpy start due to the disrupted pre season so it’s definitely a work in progress. However time is moving on, the mistakes need to be a lot less frequent and some defensive solidity rebuilt (let’s not forget how good our defence was last season).

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3 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Yes I should have also said it’s very much early days. We were warned of a bumpy start due to the disrupted pre season so it’s definitely a work in progress. However time is moving on, the mistakes need to be a lot less frequent and some defensive solidity rebuilt (let’s not forget how good our defence was last season).

We were defensively good against lower quality players last year, this year we are being torn a new butt hole. 

We haven't learned our lesson we need a "DEFENSIVE COACH" to assist DF his current coaches aren't good enough at this level

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5 minutes ago, Mullet said:

We were defensively good against lower quality players last year, this year we are being torn a new butt hole. 

We haven't learned our lesson we need a "DEFENSIVE COACH" to assist DF his current coaches aren't good enough at this level

Yes lower quality players but it was the team mindset that was the impressive change. Lessons were learnt from the PL season and we made conceding less a focus. Now Skipp was a big part of that and he needs replacing as I think has been mentioned but the rest is still a work in progress. Worrying that we’re still conceding the same sloppy goals but aside from the 2 mistakes, what examples are there of being cut open by Leicester? I can’t remember the defence being out of shape or continually losing Vardy/Barnes etc. The width oppositions get against us is scary and needs sorting but it’s not a crisis…yet.

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1 hour ago, Mullet said:

We were defensively good against lower quality players last year, this year we are being torn a new butt hole. 

We haven't learned our lesson we need a "DEFENSIVE COACH" to assist DF his current coaches aren't good enough at this level

Hughton might be available soon. 

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My worry with “we were promised a bumpy start” is that we can’t really afford one. Let’s not forget when making comparisons with 2 seasons ago - we broke lots of horrid records for our worse ever finish! We don’t need to match that but vastly improve on it- and, at present, I don’t see it happening. Because we are still lacking physicality and trying to play our way out of trouble with skill which leaves us vulnerable- the more skilful top sides play us off the park whilst the less skilful bottom sides bully us off the ball. I hope I am wrong but- as stated above - it looks like we will be the worst performing promoted side AGAIN!! 

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We've learned that Farke is not a good enough manager for this level. 

We've also learned that people still say things like "if we play like that we'll stay up" when we lose, particularly when we gift the opposition their goals. Go figure. 

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Stating the obvious day but, Webber needs to keep his eye on two things at the same time when entering the market.

Firstly, Premier League survival .... clearly.

Secondly, due deference to our status(financial) and our consequent self-sufficient model.... like it or not.

The first required strengthening the defence compared to the last time around .... in the addition of Gibson, Gianoullis, Brandon Williams (why he was pitched in so readily confused me) and the very emergent prospect that is Omobimadele I, personally, feel that this has been achieved. The fact that Sorensen is not used readily confuses me as well. Mumba is ready too.

The second requirement for Premier League survival is the so-called elephant in the room. That defensive midfield slot so urgently in need of filling remains puzzlingly empty, and we are now reliant upon a last minute acquisition. Fingers crossed!

In the somewhat brilliant signings of Tzolis, Rachida and Sargent, Webber has clearly paid that due deference  to our status and model. All are prospects, all will likely soar in value. The emergent youngsters mentioned re-enforce this.

 

We are a much, much better outfit than we were last time around, imo. Financial restraints have meant that filling that vital (very) position remains in the balance.

It is not quite as easy as just "learning lessons." It is more a matter of being able to react to what has been learnt.

We quite simply cannot venture into the market for 'ready-made' players costing in excess of much more than £10m. That time may or may not come.

I watched the Sky PL build up yesterday lunchtime. For the Norwich v Leicester game it was 75% about the visitors, whilst the pundits were really quite dismissive of City, in a polite sort of way. For the first time that I can recall I regretted the fact that we were the perpetual paupers at the top table and thought to myself, "b-ugger it, if we fail this time let's then be on the side of going for it. Rich investor, hit or bust!"

It's called being weary of being seen as  'Little old Norwich.' There's a lot to be said for yo-yoing, but there's more to be said from being taken seriously.

A dismal season and such fancilful thoughts could well solidify in many a head. 

Daniel Farke seems to have become acclimatised to the top table, in any event. His outright criticism of the VAR decision yesterday contrasted sharply with his more timid acceptance of all thrown at him last time around. Let's hope that this is a good omen and that his squad follows suit by assuming such belligerency on the field of play.

We desperately need a Trevor Hockey moment. Right now we have accumulated the best Championship squad that we've ever had. Even better than last season.

Yo-yoing is confirmed for the foreseeable future.

By opining that Webber attended more to the self-sufficiency model at the expense of league survival is refuting the signings of Rachida, Tzolis and Sargent. None of us would likely take this line.

 

Edited by BroadstairsR
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In my view we have, and have not, learned lessons. 

The squad looks palpably stronger I like signings but am very surprised at the lack of a CDM. That really was and still is priority 1.

Where I see the issue though is the whole approach to the game.

1. Passing about stupidly under pressure. I know that it is DF' s approach to play out from the back but to do it dogmatically all the time failed last time yet we still persist. A good old hoof is sometimes needed.

2. The tactics with the wide attackers and advancing full backs still seems there and leaving us prone to any swift counter attack.

3. We don't really press, or try to starve the opposition of time and space. We seem to sit back a bit and stand off too much to my eyes. Corners are a good example perhaps where we often just conceded posession again around the box through having no outlet.

4. This is the one that really worries me. It is hard to describe  but about fire in the belly. I don't see us starting fast and "up for it" in Harry Redknapp terms. Neither at kick off or restart. We often semm rather languid and passive Any of that fire seems to come from in game adrenalin such as from a perceived bad decision or goal against or other slight. Is DF too relaxed and calm in his pre game build up or half time cuppas? 

We are never going to be buying the sort of players that other prem clubs and the top 6 will be. But we have to make the most of what we have and what we can control. Are we really doing that? Does DF get too easy a ride because he seems like a good bloke? I like him a lot but is there a stubborn streak in there which is making it harder for us to make the most of what we have,?

Early days this season and hard to judge against good teams after little pre season  but so far like for like we are actually worse off than last time and still doing some of the same things.  That is an early worry to me. But ho hum, 'tis only football........

 

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3 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

My worry with “we were promised a bumpy start” is that we can’t really afford one. Let’s not forget when making comparisons with 2 seasons ago - we broke lots of horrid records for our worse ever finish! We don’t need to match that but vastly improve on it- and, at present, I don’t see it happening. Because we are still lacking physicality and trying to play our way out of trouble with skill which leaves us vulnerable- the more skilful top sides play us off the park whilst the less skilful bottom sides bully us off the ball. I hope I am wrong but- as stated above - it looks like we will be the worst performing promoted side AGAIN!! 

Sorry but this is borderline idiotic.

When the majority of people saw the fixture list come out they knew it would be a bumpy start. Liverpool, Man City, Leicester, Arsenal. Sure Arsenal are now struggling a bit so hardly the same concept they were in the summer, but few people thought we'd get anything from those four - even more so with our pre season. Even four points from those four fixtures would be seen as tough going.

You can continue to try and hand wave the facts to suit your own agenda if you like, but you are only making yourself look more and more foolish.

The performance against Leicester was much improved. You can argue it is down the opposition we were playing against at which point Sherlock turns up and slaps you round the chops with a wet kipper and says "no 💩!". 

No bottom side has played us yet. 

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"We quite simply cannot venture into the market for 'ready-made' players costing in excess of much more than £10m. That time may or may not come." 

 

Sissoko. 

 

Ajer. 

 

Shall I continue? 

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4 minutes ago, fredherring said:

"We quite simply cannot venture into the market for 'ready-made' players costing in excess of much more than £10m. That time may or may not come." 

 

Sissoko. 

 

Ajer. 

 

Shall I continue? 

I don't get that.

Did we ever show an interest in Sissoko?

As for Ajer, either by choice or not, we decided not to pursue that player, perhaps because there was a doubt whether he is PL standard or perhaps because we decided not to go that extra mile as far as the fee went. Perhaps a combination of the two.

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There’s two sets of fans that use this message board, some won’t hear a word said about NCFC, whether it’s right or wrong, OK everyone has an opinion, and I get that. Then there’s the ones that state how it is whatever.

So the question is, do we have a squad worthy of staying in the premier league, answer No, not at present, I saw enough yesterday to think if two of the three positions were better, we could have and should have one that, not lost, none of this they are a top team ****.

 We all should know, even if some don’t want to, that CB’s are not good enough for this league, distribution is poor, positioning goes a stray, we need a better one. Now as for CDM there is a big hole, we are weak, will we get both, I certainly hope so!

Now in addition, and yes this is a big ask, but for the first time for many years we have players that can supply balls into the box, high or low, but there’s no one there, and I wonder if this will reduce balls in to the box quickly, because if that, yes we can run in behind, but you can’t do that all the time, we need another option, I think we also need a different CF, someone who you can knock it long too when you too, and need to hold up, is physical, can lay it off, and win balls in the air, as I said different to what we have, so we can mix it up.

 

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I am far from convinced based on what I’ve seen so far that Gibson is good enough for this level these days. 

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10 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Delia and Webber take their cues from the numpty fan base who think that you can go out and play football regardless of the opposition. The penny still hasn't dropped with the fans. This is not the Championship. Norwich are not the Man City of that league anymore. The approach has to be a lot more nuanced. Do you see - just like last time Norwich will finish bottom whilst the other two promoted teams stay up. People around here are just plain dumb - doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. And I have to keep coming on here repeating myself over and over. Hogground day.

🤓🤩😜😍🤣😎

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3 hours ago, chicken said:

Sorry but this is borderline idiotic.

When the majority of people saw the fixture list come out they knew it would be a bumpy start. Liverpool, Man City, Leicester, Arsenal. Sure Arsenal are now struggling a bit so hardly the same concept they were in the summer, but few people thought we'd get anything from those four - even more so with our pre season. Even four points from those four fixtures would be seen as tough going.

You can continue to try and hand wave the facts to suit your own agenda if you like, but you are only making yourself look more and more foolish.

The performance against Leicester was much improved. You can argue it is down the opposition we were playing against at which point Sherlock turns up and slaps you round the chops with a wet kipper and says "no 💩!". 

No bottom side has played us yet. 

How is it idiotic to point out that we haven’t learnt lessons when we are bottom with a huge goals against deficit, glaring holes in the starting XI and now on a dismal run of 14 games without a point in this division. 
 

sure the fixtures were grim - but that doesn’t mean we just roll over. A better performance yesterday but still zero points. When are we allowed to be concerned? 

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2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How is it idiotic to point out that we haven’t learnt lessons when we are bottom with a huge goals against deficit, glaring holes in the starting XI and now on a dismal run of 14 games without a point in this division. 
 

sure the fixtures were grim - but that doesn’t mean we just roll over. A better performance yesterday but still zero points. When are we allowed to be concerned? 

Did we roll over yesterday? I was at the game and would say anything but.

I shouldn't really respond to your troll posts but its important outsiders reading this forum dont think we're all as simple minded.

The opening fixtures was the first indication of a difficult start but that was then exemplified by not being able to have a pre-season with Farke coming out and warning players hadn't even trained together, and the first few fixtures would be our pre season because there is no other choice.

At the end of the day, the same posters look for the same negatives. Which is fine, what's sad is that you disappear when we start winning.

Farke and Webber will do what they've always done with you and similar posters and make you look silly; not that you'll acknowledge it.

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2 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How is it idiotic to point out that we haven’t learnt lessons when we are bottom with a huge goals against deficit, glaring holes in the starting XI and now on a dismal run of 14 games without a point in this division. 
 

sure the fixtures were grim - but that doesn’t mean we just roll over. A better performance yesterday but still zero points. When are we allowed to be concerned? 

Concerned? You come over as out-and-out critical on a consistent and premature basis. To the point of tedium.

Realistically, and our true opponents in this league this season have yet to face what we have, we have lost just one point from nine.

That's the way it will work out for our rivals who will get the same return from similar to our fixtures, sooner as well as later. It will even out.

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A team that equalises once and was a tight, but accurate offside call from doing so again, and then missed two late chances to gain another equaliser, is most categorically not rolling over. Especially when against a team that was 5th in the top flight last time out.

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15 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

A team that equalises once and was a tight, but accurate offside call from doing so again, and then missed two late chances to gain another equaliser, is most categorically not rolling over. Especially when against a team that was 5th in the top flight last time out.

Now this, I'll 100% agree with you on....

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10 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

Hughton might be available soon. 

I'm not saying change Farke, he knows what the issues are but he is not the one on the pitch. I think his players are good enough to survive but they are naïve, like he said yesterday we need to be switched on in defence at all times and commit professional fouls sometimes we are too honest, I didn't think the Williams error was that bad for the first goal but we got opened up too easily , our centre defence charged in towards goal Vardy held off to find space 1-0.

I think get a defensive coach in to get them organised lose the naivety because this is two seasons now, we have the players but not the knowhow.

Houghton or Alladyce in to assist Farke for 1 year

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

How is it idiotic to point out that we haven’t learnt lessons when we are bottom with a huge goals against deficit, glaring holes in the starting XI and now on a dismal run of 14 games without a point in this division. 
 

sure the fixtures were grim - but that doesn’t mean we just roll over. A better performance yesterday but still zero points. When are we allowed to be concerned? 

It is idiotic. Mainly because you regularly start a thread to announce the same incorrect conclusions. It's clear you don't watch our games. It's clear you know very little about football.

That might sound harsh to your ears, but this season so far has been nothing like last time out in the premier league, though, it is hard to judge that on three games.

Anyone that bangs on about the same issues with the team are in cloud cuckoo land. Last time out we had no money to really strengthen. Hernandez, Cantwell and Buendia were our main wide options, Onel was out injured for most of the season. That theme was consistent throughout the season. No depth, very little cover, if any, for loss of form or injury.

The game Vs Leicester said everything. If all players from Tuesday night were fit, you could easily have an argument for Sargent, Tzolis, Dowell, McLean, Williams and Mumba all starting. That alone informs you just how far we have come and how vastly different it is.

Everyone is banging on about how a defensive midfielder would solve all of our problems - yet forgets to mention that we dominated posession at times yesterday without one. On top of that, the first goal at least, had nothing to do with the centre midfield or the centre backs really. Williams should have just seen that ball out of play. Experience, wisdom... Nothing to do with Gilmour - and yet he gets blamed.

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1 hour ago, chicken said:

It is idiotic. Mainly because you regularly start a thread to announce the same incorrect conclusions. It's clear you don't watch our games. It's clear you know very little about football.

That might sound harsh to your ears, but this season so far has been nothing like last time out in the premier league, though, it is hard to judge that on three games.

Anyone that bangs on about the same issues with the team are in cloud cuckoo land. Last time out we had no money to really strengthen. Hernandez, Cantwell and Buendia were our main wide options, Onel was out injured for most of the season. That theme was consistent throughout the season. No depth, very little cover, if any, for loss of form or injury.

The game Vs Leicester said everything. If all players from Tuesday night were fit, you could easily have an argument for Sargent, Tzolis, Dowell, McLean, Williams and Mumba all starting. That alone informs you just how far we have come and how vastly different it is.

Everyone is banging on about how a defensive midfielder would solve all of our problems - yet forgets to mention that we dominated posession at times yesterday without one. On top of that, the first goal at least, had nothing to do with the centre midfield or the centre backs really. Williams should have just seen that ball out of play. Experience, wisdom... Nothing to do with Gilmour - and yet he gets blamed.

What patronising drivel. Actually the first goal, whilst primarily the fault of Brandon Williams, saw Gibson in no mans land. Neither CB had a great game. 
 

Most every pundit concerned with the club, and the manager himself, has stated we need a CDM. So how you say it isn’t so important is beyond me!

Gilmour wasn’t blamed by me - but he is struggling as a square peg in a round hole. Unless he gets a fighter alongside him we won’t see what he is good at. 
 

I never disputed that our squad has more depth- indeed check my posts and I have said I am impressed with the signings. However I have also stated concern that we have gone for lightweight youth up front instead of muscle in the middle. I stand by that. 
 

maybe it is you who doesn’t watch the games. As nothing I have said here is particularly controversial. And as for not being the same- we certainly seem to have the same issues. Look at the goals against column then the points accrued if you need help with this. 

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2 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

What patronising drivel. Actually the first goal, whilst primarily the fault of Brandon Williams, saw Gibson in no mans land. Neither CB had a great game. 
 

Most every pundit concerned with the club, and the manager himself, has stated we need a CDM. So how you say it isn’t so important is beyond me!

Gilmour wasn’t blamed by me - but he is struggling as a square peg in a round hole. Unless he gets a fighter alongside him we won’t see what he is good at. 
 

I never disputed that our squad has more depth- indeed check my posts and I have said I am impressed with the signings. However I have also stated concern that we have gone for lightweight youth up front instead of muscle in the middle. I stand by that. 
 

maybe it is you who doesn’t watch the games. As nothing I have said here is particularly controversial. And as for not being the same- we certainly seem to have the same issues. Look at the goals against column then the points accrued if you need help with this. 

I think you probably don't comprehend what you are saying then because it is quite extreme. You are one of perhaps two to three people who express views like this - and no one is sure if the others are just trolling or on the wind up...

However, going by your logic, we now have a CDM so we are fine, we'll sail through this league and stay up. Nothing to worry about.

As for Gibson - wasn't his fault, he'd come to receive the ball from Williams and then was done for pace by a winger. At this level, most wingers will out pace most CB's. Williams should either have passed it sooner or just let it go out. You can't blame someone else for that mistake just to suit your own weak argument.

Everyone accepted - pundits, fans etc, that against Man City, it was our left hand side that was letting us down, hence Farke changing it up at half time.

But I guess you must be correct. You know best. We were absolutely thrashed by Leicester, pushed and bullied off the park due to a lack of a CDM and a new CB. 

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I got slated for this post on August 28th. To save you scrolling I had written: 

Webber stated we would learn lessons and that he wouldn’t send Farke out without a gun this time. So my question is- what lessons did we learn and what has been done to address them? 
 

Because from my vantage point we haven’t learned a flipping thing. Still lacking physicality in midfield, still trying to play a championship defence in the premiership, still stubbornly sticking to formation and style that doesn’t cut it for bottom half team, etc etc 

Bottom line it all looks so similar to the last premiershipcampaign, we don’t seem to have learnt very much at all, 

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