Jump to content
Dean Coneys boots

Have we learned anything from last time?

Recommended Posts

Webber stated we would learn lessons and that he wouldn’t send Farke out without a gun this time. So my question is- what lessons did we learn and what has been done to address them? 
 

Because from my vantage point we haven’t learned a flipping thing. Still lacking physicality in midfield, still trying to play a championship defence in the premiership, still stubbornly sticking to formation and style that doesn’t cut it for bottom half team, etc etc 

Bottom line it all looks so similar to the last premiership campaign, we don’t seem to have learnt very much at all, 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've clearly identified and began to work on the problem but it was never going to be a quick fix.

Look at the squad from 2 years ago and look at it now. We are adapting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've not learnt to post anything vaguely different or new, but I'm confident enough you'll look as stupid as I think you are by the end of the season so happy to let you have your little moment of attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Webber stated we would learn lessons and that he wouldn’t send Farke out without a gun this time. So my question is- what lessons did we learn and what has been done to address them? 
 

Because from my vantage point we haven’t learned a flipping thing. Still lacking physicality in midfield, still trying to play a championship defence in the premiership, still stubbornly sticking to formation and style that doesn’t cut it for bottom half team, etc etc 

Bottom line it all looks so similar to the last premiership campaign, we don’t seem to have learnt very much at all, 

We didn't strengthen our squad last time in the prem, this time I think Webber and Farke need some credit for trying. We gained Gibson permanently, we added Dimi, Tzolis and Sargent all full internationals. We have a better squad of players but we still fall short of the required quality and nous. I agree with another post about toughening up we are too honest, too nice. Today we played better and almost matched a very good side but still lost to just 2 bits of quality. We should smash the championship though, a long long wait from now til then unfortunately. 

Edited by Mullet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What we have not learned is that you cannot afford to gift a PL Club an early goal by casual, lackadaisical, risky and totally unnecessary p*ssing about at the back when it is obvious that in doing so you are going to put a team mate in trouble and that is likely to result in a goal.

Kamakazi tactics.

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree on the evidence so far we have not learnt a single thing. Let’s hope they learn quickly this season. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mullet said:

We didn't strengthen our squad last time in the prem, this time I think Webber and Farke need some credit for trying. We gained Gibson permanently, we added Dimi, Tzolis and Sargent all full internationals. We have a better squad of players but we still fall short of the required quality and nous. I agree with another post about toughening up we are too honest, too nice. Today we played better and almost matched a very good side but still lost to just 2 bits of quality. We should smash the championship though, a long long wait from now til then unfortunately. 

We didn’t lose to two bits of quality. Both goals were pretty much self inflicted. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

What we have not learned is that you cannot afford to gift a PL Club an early goal by casual, lackadaisical, risky and totally unnecessary p*ssing about at the back when it is obvious that in doing so you are going to put a team mate in trouble and that is likely to result in a goal.

Kamakazi tactics.

 

 

lackadaisical is the word of the day, I always thought it was lacksidaisical so you taught me something thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

We didn’t lose to two bits of quality. Both goals were pretty much self inflicted. 

They still had the quality to put the ball in the net, we fluffed our chances that's the difference. These small margins make a massive difference 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You've not learnt to post anything vaguely different or new, but I'm confident enough you'll look as stupid as I think you are by the end of the season so happy to let you have your little moment of attention.

So instead of entering the debate- and showing what has been addressed in a counter argument - you just go for an ad hominem attack coupled with an assurance all will be well but without any argument as to why. You don’t really understand how debate or discussion forums work do you? 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Webber stated we would learn lessons and that he wouldn’t send Farke out without a gun this time. So my question is- what lessons did we learn and what has been done to address them? 
 

Because from my vantage point we haven’t learned a flipping thing. Still lacking physicality in midfield, still trying to play a championship defence in the premiership, still stubbornly sticking to formation and style that doesn’t cut it for bottom half team, etc etc 

Bottom line it all looks so similar to the last premiership campaign, we don’t seem to have learnt very much at all, 

3 months since the end of last season ended and we still haven't replaced Skipp, should've been number one priority.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Move Klose said:

3 months since the end of last season ended and we still haven't replaced Skipp, should've been number one priority.

Couldn’t agree more- it’s the drum I’ve been banging loudly. Losing our two best players left us playing catch up before we could even think of improvement. Two steps back and one forward for me- and defence and CDM should have been the priority - not signing fast youth 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are definitely some similar problems to last time in my view. Most of them in midfield. We don't protect the full backs enough and we don't have the necessary power and athleticism to defend the central areas properly at this level. We let Trybull and Leitner go for reasons associated with that, but I don't see Gilmour as any better at that side of the game.

However, it would be premature to judge after 3 games against top 6 sides, before the window has shut. A CDM addition will be coming, we will have two weeks to work on the shape and personnel. There's a very long way to go.

The plus is that we do, in my view, have greater squad depth. Sargent and Rashica, and also Idah, impressed me today and I think we will be able to change the way we play much more this time around. Plus Tzolis is waiting in the wings. Sargent looks a huge upgrade on Hugill.

In the end 11 goals conceded in 3 games is the glaring stat and improving our defensive game is imperative. We will go down if we don't. 

But there's no way to draw strong conclusions from these 3 games and I would delicately suggest that the naysayers reserve some degree of judgment until we've played 10-12 games. 

Beefy

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Need a Good CDM to give us any hope Of keeping clean sheets 

Also hopefully this has been Sorted with the New Wingers we need to Create and Score goals from Open Play 

We have had 3 hard Games to open so i was Not expecting us to do much but 10 goals Against and 1 pen For is not looking Great 

Hopefully we will see the Real Form once we get easier Games 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

What we have not learned is that you cannot afford to gift a PL Club an early goal by casual, lackadaisical, risky and totally unnecessary p*ssing about at the back when it is obvious that in doing so you are going to put a team mate in trouble and that is likely to result in a goal.

Kamakazi tactics.

 

 

That's true and just before that we had an amazing spectacle of Hanley trying to play possession football along his own goal line for Christs sake, being closed down and conceding a totally unnecessary corner. When the keeper and defence have some space then fine I applaud the building from the back philosophy albeit that it slows our attacks down to a snails pace. However, when the opposition really press up on us in  our penalty area we need to get the ball up the field and focus on winning the second ball.    

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hogesar said:

You've not learnt to post anything vaguely different or new, but I'm confident enough you'll look as stupid as I think you are by the end of the season so happy to let you have your little moment of attention.

You post a lot of insults at people, that’s nothing different!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

totally agree here.

we added so much quality in team but  2 days before transfer window to  be closed  and we have same championship  centre defenders and no physical top quality deff middf.

inj seems affected both Hanley and especially Gibbson confidence and they are panicked too often.

We play our style but this is suicide in PL and especially against Leicester who need exactly that as we have rabbit in midfield and old school centre back's.

exposed defenders with our quality in PL its easy same campaign as 2 y ago.

If we can try play this style we must solved this 2 positions until max July not in last moment or may be January...

confidence is already broken and too soon come must win once more Watford as 2 y ago and must pt away at badly depleted Gunners.

lessons not learned looks like imo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

You post a lot of insults at people, that’s nothing different!

I do at online trolls that only turn up for defeats to repeat the same uninformed bile ad nauseum.

Its not worth a debate, until he is systematically proven wrong he will continue to post this irrespective. Then when we have a good season we don't hear much at all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Interesting comment from Paddy:

"That is why a defensively minded central midfield signing to fill the large-shaped Olly Skipp hole has assumed ever growing importance.  

Expect that particular facet of City’s transfer strategy to be successfully concluded in the next few days."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

 

Interesting comment from Paddy:

"That is why a defensively minded central midfield signing to fill the large-shaped Olly Skipp hole has assumed ever growing importance.  

Expect that particular facet of City’s transfer strategy to be successfully concluded in the next few days."

Hope so. That central midfield three isn't working.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I am learning is just how many people really don't grasp football, yet follow it with such fervour.

Learned nothing from last time? Just the same as last time?

No, not at all. Not even close. We've just played the teams that finished 1st, 3rd and 5th, the transfer window is still open and we've had a poor pre-season due to the impact of covid in the camp cancelling games and disrupting training, not to mention delaying the arrival of transfers through isolation etc.

Last time we barely had a pot to p in. We had to make do with what was largely a championship squad. We then suffered injuries to all three experienced, senior centre backs. Add to that a lack in effective striking options past Pukki who then picked up a broken toe. And then of course project restart stripping us of one the most important aids - our fans.

Yes, what Webber had done that summer wasn't good enough. But trying to find premier league capable players in the bargain bins is always going to be hard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

 

Interesting comment from Paddy:

"That is why a defensively minded central midfield signing to fill the large-shaped Olly Skipp hole has assumed ever growing importance.  

Expect that particular facet of City’s transfer strategy to be successfully concluded in the next few days."

Let's hope so, we're wasting Gilmour trying to play him in the Skipp role. He needs to have the freedom to play further forward. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, chicken said:

What I am learning is just how many people really don't grasp football, yet follow it with such fervour.

Learned nothing from last time? Just the same as last time?

No, not at all. Not even close. We've just played the teams that finished 1st, 3rd and 5th, the transfer window is still open and we've had a poor pre-season due to the impact of covid in the camp cancelling games and disrupting training, not to mention delaying the arrival of transfers through isolation etc.

Last time we barely had a pot to p in. We had to make do with what was largely a championship squad. We then suffered injuries to all three experienced, senior centre backs. Add to that a lack in effective striking options past Pukki who then picked up a broken toe. And then of course project restart stripping us of one the most important aids - our fans.

Yes, what Webber had done that summer wasn't good enough. But trying to find premier league capable players in the bargain bins is always going to be hard.

Only that last season we actually started a lot brighter than this. We had a real go at Liverpool and only tailed off later, this time we already look like the low morale easy pickings of the second half of that season. Hope I am wrong but I now make that 13 games on the bounce at this level without a single point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First of all, what happened two seasons ago has no bearing on what happens this season. The ten games in project restart were abject but how many of those players are still regulars?

Pukki, Rupp, Krul, Hanley, Aarons and Cantwell. That's it isn't it?
image.png.91eb3eb98747533f0ec256826efa7396.png

That was our start in the PL last time. West Ham were not the team they are now and were a team we expected to get points from. As were Brighton, Burnley, Palace and Watford.

We got a surprise win against Man City and a competitive loss to Chelsea 3-2. But otherwise, that isn't a good start. Especially against relegation rivals.

Here is how I approach a season in the Premier League. We need 35+ points. Most of those points will come against teams that will finish in the bottom 9-10 teams of the league. If, as we should, we consider ourselves to be one of those ten at this point, who else do we consider to be in that 9?

This season for me it is, in no particular order: Palace, Watford, Brighton, Brentford, Southampton, Burnley, Newcastle, Wolves and one of Leeds and Villa. Now some of those teams are better, and will be more mid table contenders, but to me, those teams represent the best chance of results.

When it comes to sides that are in the top 6, we have to simply hope we can fight hard and get some points off them. In the grand scheme of things, it's games against the lower teams that will be more important for us.

We competed today with one of the top sides in this league, perhaps not Man City, Liverpool, Man Utd or Chelsea, but they are in the next batch challenging them.

We have to be realistic, grounded and humble and allow this side to grow. There are huge differences to this season and last time out in the premier league. We have a team growing into the league rather than one that largely consisted of players that had brought us as far as they could. Vrancic, Trybull, Stiepermann, Srbeny, Klose, Tettey, Leitner... even it would seem, Hernandez. And we have lost those and more on the way back as we looked to build a more competitive side - and we have that.

We just have to remember who we are competing with. It is not a side that has a £100m player who is subbed off for a £75m+ player. It is not with a side who finished 3rd.

The fact that we competed with a team that finished 5th and not far off 4th and come away disappointed because it could have been and probably should have been a draw, says everything to me.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...