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Haggerdoo

Building for next season..............

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Well that''s any lingering chance of a play off place gone - now we need to sort out a decent side for next season - this is chance to blood some of our promising youngsters - Jarvis, Spillane and Cave - Brown need to be given a chance to see what they can do - and NO Worthy that doesn''t mean bringing them on for the last 10 minutes of agame.

Also think the following have to go, if we seriously want to mount a challenge next year:

Fleming

Jarrett

Hughes

Etuhu

Johansson and Rehman both put in useful performances today and with Shackell making a return, we have the basis of a reasonable team as long as Worthy realises that the four mentioned above are just not up to it. The majority of those at Carrow road understand this - no wonder our patience is exhausted!!

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I agree - we have nothing to lose in blooding some youngsters as long as the fans give them some breathing space and some more defeats as they gel.

Rehman and JJ were the positives and I am pretty sure that Robbo and Safri will do better as their energy levels return.

Worthys biggest conundrum remains what formation to play (4-4-2 for me given our state of flux) and which of the star strikers we drop to make ourselves competitive in midfield.

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I think that it is worth remembering that the team we put out yesterday had 6 players that weren''t available for selection the week before, 3 of which had been at different clubs. And I''m not trying to defend yesterdays performance, just that its not worth writing off an entire team of players on the basis of their first game together. I agree with ZLF that Robinson and Safri have the makings of a very decent midfield pairing, and Rehman and JJ looked good (individually if not as part of a team yet) - it is impossible to judge Earnie''s contribution as he obviously needs a team playing together behind him to play to his potential.  

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Agree in principle, but can''t think of a worse time for the youngsters to come in to the team, which is low on form, confidence, talent, everything, by the sound of it. The current mob should be good enough to get us past the 50 point mark, which is our most urgent priority now, then let''s get the kids in.

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its a good point perm, however the ipswich team that so easily played us off the park is so poor at the moment...  If we had been playing a decent side I dread to think what may have happened.  I felt so sorry for Earnshaw, how many times did you see him back to goal with the ball hooffed up to him.....  The one time Hucks actually managed to turn away from the defender a foul was given!!!

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agree macdougall & ZLF also that safs and robbo are our best midfield pairing, they proved that against soton. rehman and JJ played well, earnie must be in shock over the scandalous service.  sorry, but hughes confirmed again he''s not the required standard. he is a ball winner for me, breaking up play so centre midfield is his best posi in theory, but he''s not upto safs level.  worthy also confirmed he''s not upto standard as well.  with the type of football we play, playing 2 small uns up front was nonsensical.  

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PR,

Yeah, the performance was unacceptable yesterday, and I think that Worthy should probably be on his way, but as I said, I see no reason why this team of players should not be able to perform to a high standard once they get the chance to play together and know each others styles. 

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Re: Building for next season..............

Well, the mix for the mortar for the building - is sadly lacking in water and sufficient cement!

I''m just so fed up to the back teeth with this flamin'' football club! Are the board of Director''s seats facing the stand? We were not even second best yesterday! What BFJ is doing with no funds at our Suffolk rivals, is nothing short of commendable! He is a good coach and a superb manager, and it doesn''t hurt me to say it - because credit where credit''s due! I remember in the 80''s Lennie Lawrence at Charlton, kept the club in the top flight on a shoestring.......

Mr A Boothroyd at Watford, another decent manager! Please come back!

We are going nowhere! ;~(  ON THE FALL CITY!

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[quote user="Haggerdoo"]

Also think the following have to go, if we seriously want to mount a challenge next year:

Fleming

Jarrett

Hughes

Etuhu

[/quote]

Jarrett and Hughes I agree with but Flem and Etuhu,no! Etuhu could be good under a different manager, he was decent at Preston. The times i saw him he was good! Fleming? I respect his loyality but i think Shackell is a great defender. Ok i''m not sure about Flems.

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Mac,

I agree, but i would bloody hope considering how much money has been plowed into the club now...  The club of old would never have let good players like Malcky, Edworthy, Svenny and now McVeigh leave so easily. We fought to keep Mulryne and Kenton (not always successfully). I guess the club had its "Head in the Premiership".

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Is it me or does Etuhu look like he doesn''t know what to do during

games? Methinks he is none to smart and needs very specific

instructions from his manager which he is not getting. Me also thinks

he is a confidence player. I think he has potential and I''m desperate

to see more from him, but if he''s never going to show it...

We can''t ship Flemming while we don''t have a solid right back.

Hughes and Charlton to go at the very least, but there are others I wouldn''t be sad to see the back of:

Henderson - Does anyone really think he can cut it at this level, you know, score goals!?

Donkerty - Last couple of games back to his worst, manhandler, no pace.

For the future no good, since we should be setting our sights on the

prem (obviously not now for next season but for season after) and does

anyone really think he can hack it in the prem??

Flem - See above, bit smarter than Doc but his long term future lies in the lower leagues.

Robinson - May be the best we have to partner Safs while Etuhu learns

to run, but we already know he is fizzy pop standard at best.

Thorne - See above (appart from the partnering Safs bit)

In case I haven''t depressed people enough yet, if we unexpectedly make

the prem during the playing careers of the current sqad we will also

need another left mid (Hucks can''t hack the prem), cover for this left

mid, a right mid and cover, another left back (Drury can''t hack the

prem), another right back (because no matter how many we try...) on top

of players to replace the above mentioned.

There, that''s planning for the future, albeit with a little more ambition than the board currently exhibit.

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[quote user="Crazy Eddie"]Is it me or does Etuhu look like he doesn''t know what to do during games? Methinks he is none to smart and needs very specific instructions from his manager which he is not getting. Me also thinks he is a confidence player. I think he has potential and I''m desperate to see more from him, but if he''s never going to show it...

We can''t ship Flemming while we don''t have a solid right back.

Hughes and Charlton to go at the very least, but there are others I wouldn''t be sad to see the back of:

Henderson - Does anyone really think he can cut it at this level, you know, score goals!?

Donkerty - Last couple of games back to his worst, manhandler, no pace. For the future no good, since we should be setting our sights on the prem (obviously not now for next season but for season after) and does anyone really think he can hack it in the prem??

Flem - See above, bit smarter than Doc but his long term future lies in the lower leagues.

Robinson - May be the best we have to partner Safs while Etuhu learns to run, but we already know he is fizzy pop standard at best.

Thorne - See above (appart from the partnering Safs bit)

In case I haven''t depressed people enough yet, if we unexpectedly make the prem during the playing careers of the current sqad we will also need another left mid (Hucks can''t hack the prem), cover for this left mid, a right mid and cover, another left back (Drury can''t hack the prem), another right back (because no matter how many we try...) on top of players to replace the above mentioned.

There, that''s planning for the future, albeit with a little more ambition than the board currently exhibit.

[/quote]

you have your head in the premiership Eddie, we need players to get us out of this division now...  we can worry about the premiership If and When we get there.

Players like Fleming and Robinson are decent at this level, Fleming has still proven he can hack it and would be a VERY useful squad member.  Hucks is still Darren Huckerby!!  under the right management he can STILL fire us up.  we have seen only glimpses this season of his potential.  If the team around him playes better he will improve.  He is STILL our most valuable player, hell he got us the single point we acheived in January.  Doherty again is probably suffering from having had too much to do this season, he has been holding us together all season, now he has a couple of poor games and the defense falls apart. Drury is a class player at this level and may prove himself in the prem if given the chance again.

Charlton is to old, Hughes and Etuhu are not even championship standard.  Jarrett is having a nightmare, i would assume he can improve if given a chance given reports from plymouth.  Colin is having a hard time adjusting, along with being left isolated match after match.

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[quote user="Paul Rankin"]

[quote user="Crazy Eddie"]Is it me or does

Etuhu look like he doesn''t know what to do during games? Methinks he is

none to smart and needs very specific instructions from his manager

which he is not getting. Me also thinks he is a confidence player. I

think he has potential and I''m desperate to see more from him, but if

he''s never going to show it...We can''t ship Flemming while we don''t have a solid right back.Hughes and Charlton to go at the very least, but there are others I wouldn''t be sad to see the back of:Henderson - Does anyone really think he can cut it at this level, you know, score goals!?Donkerty

- Last couple of games back to his worst, manhandler, no pace. For the

future no good, since we should be setting our sights on the prem

(obviously not now for next season but for season after) and does

anyone really think he can hack it in the prem??Flem - See above, bit smarter than Doc but his long term future lies in the lower leagues.Robinson

- May be the best we have to partner Safs while Etuhu learns to run,

but we already know he is fizzy pop standard at best.Thorne - See above (appart from the partnering Safs bit)In

case I haven''t depressed people enough yet, if we unexpectedly make the

prem during the playing careers of the current sqad we will also need

another left mid (Hucks can''t hack the prem), cover for this left mid,

a right mid and cover, another left back (Drury can''t hack the prem),

another right back (because no matter how many we try...) on top of

players to replace the above mentioned.There, that''s planning for the future, albeit with a little more ambition than the board currently exhibit.[/quote]

you have your head in the premiership Eddie, we need players to get

us out of this division now...  we can worry about the

premiership If and When we get there.

Players like Fleming and Robinson are decent at this level, Fleming

has still proven he can hack it and would be a VERY useful squad

member.  Hucks is still Darren Huckerby!!  under the right

management he can STILL fire us up.  we have seen only glimpses

this season of his potential.  If the team around him playes

better he will improve.  He is STILL our most valuable player,

hell he got us the single point we acheived in January.  Doherty

again is probably suffering from having had too much to do this season,

he has been holding us together all season, now he has a

couple of poor games and the defense falls apart. Drury is a class

player at this level and may prove himself in the prem if given the

chance again.

Charlton is to old, Hughes and Etuhu are not even

championship standard.  Jarrett is having a nightmare, i would

assume he can improve if given a chance given reports from

plymouth.  Colin is having a hard time adjusting, along with being

left isolated match after match.

[/quote]

I take your point about building a squad to get us out of this league,

but see our last promotion season for an example of where bringing in

players of a quality somewhere between champ and prem will get you -

straight back down here again. See West Ham and Wigan for examples of

bringing in players not just good enough for this league but good

enough that should you get to the prem you don''t have to make whole

sale changes to your squad (which we - and sunderland this season -

can''t afford) in order to stay there. This is why I believe we should

be signing players like Halford and Danns not Robinson and Thorne.

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totally agrree with you on the halford and danns front - at least robinson was 50K so value for money. Putting all our eggs in the earnie basket was a big risk, especially for a team whom hoof it all the time, we quickly need to change our style, are the players good enough to do it.

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Can''t believe some people want to hold onto Fleming, loyal he has been yes but he has had it and i find it an absolute joke that he still starts, week in, week out. Having said that, nothing surprises me under the current regime.

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Paul,

Couldn''t agree more that we need to change our style and quickly. And actually, I think we do have the players to do this (perhaps under a different manager) - if we can keep it down and build from the back then I think that Earnshaw will turn out to be a wise investment. I personally think that yesterday most of our wasted possession came from Greeno''s constant hoofing. Not that he had much option most of the time but we need to work it forward on the ground to have any chance with the physical build of our team. I also thought, actually, that Johannson looked as if he would be able to do a good job on the right. I think we have the pieces, does our management team have the overview and coordination to make this work.    

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Who to keep?

Green - yes if HE wants to stay

Colin - yes, will do well when we start to play proper football

Fleming - yes, I advocated getting rid of Fleming pre-season and felt he was awful in the early part but has impressed since coming back. Any youngsters will need people like Flem around but definitely a squad player and not first team.

Doherty - yes, again I didn''t rate him pre-season but has turned in some excellent performances (and some dodgy ones to be fair). Young enough but good enough for the Premiership? Dunno.

Louis-Jean - not seen enough but would probably say yes.

Shackell - absolutely, build the defence around him.

Drury - probably but I think he has not progressed as much as we all thought and always looks a little vulnerable. Would not be too disappointed if he left.

Charlton - let him go, hard worker but not good enough now.

Hughes - please let him go, nowhere near good enough, gives the team nothing I''m afraid, sorry.

Jarret - not really seen enough but has made little impact, sell him to Plymouth.

Safri - build the midfield around him.

Etuhu - looks a peripheral figure, try him for another season to prove himself. Certainly has the attributes but has he the attitude?

Robinson - for another season possibly, average journeyman, honest & hard-working but lacks creativity or real class.

Huckerby - probably get slated but I think he needs to go unless he can get re-motivated. Of course he is the club''s most exciting player but has done little this season (and not a great deal last season if truth were told). His ''unique'' positioning creates major problems with playing 4-4-2 and we often seem lopsided with Darren in the team. Is this the real heart of City''s problems? I wonder...

McVeigh - should stay but probably won''t.

Earnshaw - will score goals if given service.

McKenzie - yes, would like to see him in centre midfield, wacky I know, gives his all and we need players like him.

Thorne - hasn''t had much chance but I''d let him go.

Ryan Jarvis - let him go for his own development.

Hendo - as above.

Others to keep; Rossi Jarvis, Michael Spillane, Darren Ward, Cave-Brown

BUY - Cameron Jerome, Greg Halford & Neil Danns, Sean St Leger, Jason Koumas, Dean Lewington

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Yes, a change in playing style is needed. There were a few, a very few

moments in the derby where we kept the ball on the ground and didn''t

look a shambles. I think we looked even worse once Hucks came into the

side, Greeno distributes to him with mind numbing predictability no

matter how many are marking him at the time!!! It''s not Hucks'' fault,

it''s just we play so one dimentionally with him in the side (presumably

this is due to instruction?). Once in the first half Green even quickly

hoofed it out to Hucks on the left EVEN THOUGH HUCKS WASN''T ON THE

PITCH!! Ball fell in a big empty gap then skidded off. Made me giggle,

almost cry. Was it just me that thought the brightest moments in the

second half from us were when WLY got it in the right (which was barely

ever!)? We need our most committed players out there and as many good

passers as we can muster, a little variation in our play and a target

man to partner Ernie. Thorne is key, Greeno can aim for him and he''ll

do a lot better with flick-ons than Johansson. Johansson to move to

right wing, McVeigh on the left, he''s good out there and, as I say,

without Hucks we are less one-dimentional. I want Hucks in the side, I

really do, but I don''t want our game to suffer as a result. Hughes is

an option for right back, he played a lot there for Reading and I can

see why. I really, really want to see more from Etuhu, but his form

doesn''t warrant a start at the mo.

---------------Green---------------

Hughes  Docherty  Rehman  Drury

Johansson  Robinson  Safri  McVeigh

---------Earnshaw  Thorne---------

Sorry, this is more a plan for the rest of this season rather than building for next, but as an idea for next:

-------------Green----------------

Halford  Shittu  Rehman  Drury

Commons  Danns  Safri  Mcsheffrey

--------Earnshaw  Mcleod--------

Bear in mind I''m trying ro stay within the realms of vaguely realistic here (otherwise Jerome would partner Earnie)

Thoughts?

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I like the idea of switching wingers more often, hucks was having no luck against Wilnis yesterday so perhaps he should have been switched to the right??  with so many players whom are decent up front and on the wings I would have thought it would happen more often??

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A lot of people are like "we need to get rid of xyz". Granted there are

some players I would rather see out of this club and 1 or 2 that I

really hope leave at the end of the season. The simple fact is though

if we get rid of huge group of players they will all need to be

replaced however crap they are, along with quality players we need to

bring in on top that are desperately needed. I also don''t agree with

the build for the championship and then worry about the premiership

when we get there mentality. We need to start building a team that will

be good enough to at least reach the play offs and hopefully automatic

promotion and then with only a few additions be comfortable in the

prem. There is no point getting to the premiership only to try and

rebuild your entire squad again. West Ham and Wigan have both shown

what can be done, keeping a fairly decent core of good championship

players and adding with real quality on top. Whoever is managing the

team next season and I hope to god it isn''t Coco Worthington will need

to be given a fairly decent transfer budget. And by that I am talking

well into the millions. We have another parachute payment next year, I

hope the club will give the manager most of it to bring in adequate

replacements for the dross Worthington has mostly brought in and also

key positions that need to be filled. That''s not a maybe it has to be a

must if IMO we are going to advance from the mess we are currently in.

With that in mind, this is the first team squad i''d like to see next

season with players out listed as well...

Goalkeepers

Green: Keep. Hasn''t been himself for 2 seasons, but still a quality

keeper and with a decent defence in front of him he may well regain his

confidence.

Lewis: Keep. Good young up and coming keeper. Can see a bright future for him in the first team.

Ward: Keep. Out of both Gallacher and Ward the place for 3rd choice

keeper i''ve given it to Ward simply because he has played for us. Not a

overly great keeper but adequate enough as a replacement.

Gallacher: Out. No real reason to be here. 4 Keepers on the wage bill

wastes money each month that could be put to better use else where.

Defenders

Drury: Keep. Again like Green seems to have lost his confidence over

the past couple of seasons. I think a lot of it has to do with Huckerby

playing in front of him and so effectively having no defensive cover.

However still no.1 left back.

New player: Left Back: With Brennan leaving that only leaves us with

Charlie as left back cover. Would like to see a decent young up and

coming left back brought in for a reasonable fee for cover and also to

give Drury a bit of competition. Price: £ Unknown

Charlie: Keep: Well I know a lot of people want to see him go but to be

fair he is a victim of Worthy''s love of playing players out of

position. This guy shouldnt be any where near the midfield however as

left back/3rd choice central defensive cover for a season in the

championship he can still do a job. Why waste money that could be spent

on quality players else where bringing in another left back replacement.

Shackell: Keep. Came on yesterday and it was like he''d never been away,

let alone injured for months on end. Quality young defender. Should be

first choice in the middle of defense.

The Doc: Keep. The Doc has shown this season his best points and his

worst points. Yesterday was a game he didn''t exactly cover himself in

glory. The problem is when the doc has a crisis of confidence or gets a

bit paniced by a faster centre forward he reverts to his worst

attributes, i.e. trying to pull players down. To be fair he has done

more than enough to stay for next season and has at quite a few times

this year been our best player on the park. Would still prefer to see

him relegated to the bench though unless we have injuries.

Rehman: Central Defense. Well I had an inkling this guy maybe good. And

to be fair as much as I want Worthington out I will give him credit for

bringing Rehman as well as Earnie and Johansson in. 3 quality

players.  Obviously we still have till the end of the season to

see how Rehman does but if his performances are anything like yesterday

we should try our hardest in the summer to sign him up. Obviously it

depends on if he wants to come and whether Fulham would be willing to

lose such a decent young talent. Price: I would estimate in the £500k -

£1 million price range. Well worth it though.

Davenport: Central Defense. Another decent young central defender we

know a lot about. This is where I also reiterate my point about

building a squad thats good enough to be up near the top near the

championship but with a few more additions would be very comfortable in

the premiership. We know what Davenport can do. We know how good he is.

Just depends on whether we can get him in, during the summer and

whether or not the price is right. Price: £1.5 - £2 Million.

Fleming: Keep. Again another 1 that people want out and I can fully

understand why. However the simple fact is he provides aqequate enough

cover for central defense and right back. And not that I believe in the

sentimentality of football but it would be hard on him if we got rid of

him next season so near his testimonial. He also has a decent amount of

experience to pass on to the younger players and acts as a good club

captain. Would like to see him start most of his matches in the

reserves though.

Jurgen Colin: Undecided. Would ideally like to see him leave but it

depends on how many decent right backs we can bring in. He certainely

has been a let down, although again to be fair the lack of cover on the

right wing hasn''t made it easy on him. Maybe he''ll prove adequate

enough to act as right back cover. Still borderline on him though.

Louis-Jean: Out. From what i''ve seen not great and constantely injured. Needs replacing. Simple as that.

New Player: Right back: Again names spring to mind, Taylor at Wigan is

a prime example. Someone the Clown was after during the close season

and as I last heard isn''t getting a game at Wigan with Chimbonda in

front of him. Again will cost but I revert back to what i''ve said

before about getting a decent team together. £1 million

Midfielders

Hucks: Keep. Oh Darren what has happened to you? 2 seasons ago and even

in the Prem you were tearing defenses apart and now you seem just a

shadow of your former self. However still a decent enough asset and

hopefully the former passion will return if he gets a few better

players around him and a winning team.

New Player: McSheffrey. Nothings needs to be said about McSheffrey.

Quality player. Can play on either wing or up front. Could provide the

kind of competition Hucks needs to get his arse in gear if McShef was

given the left wing role and hucks relegated to the bench. Price: £750k

- £1 million according to recent reports from coventry fans.

Robinson: Keep. Competent enough Midfielder if nothing to write home

about. Will do an ok job in the championship and good enough as back up.

Hughes: Out. Oh Andy. My Mum said if you don''t have anything nice to say about somebody then etc etc. Sorry but please go!

Jarrett: Out. A tiny bit better since he has come back from Plymouth but on the whole, no good. Needs to go some where else.

Etuhu: Keep. Wouldnt mind saying good bye to Dickson either but again

it comes back to money. May well improve under a different manager and

better coaching staff. Not holding my breath though!

Safri: Keep. Nothing more needs to be said about Saf. Absolute quality.

We would have been lost with out him many games this season if he

hadn''t of played and indeed we have been when he hasn''t. A testament to

him and his loyalty that he has stayed because of the fans (Take note

El Clowno) instead of moving on to bigger and better things with teams

like PSV.

New Player: Central Midfielder. A must. Who and what Price unknown but please someone with some quality.

Rossi Jarvis: Keep. One for the future. If he keeps on the right track

and under decent management will turn in to a very good

defensive/midfielder type player.

Andrew Cave Brown: Keep. A couple more years in the Academy for him yet, Again 1 for the future.

Michael Spillane: Keep. Ditto Cave Brown. Looks like a great talent.

New Player: Right Wing. Again an absolute most. We''ve been operating

without a proper right winger for a long time now. Halford seems the

no.1 choice but with Colchester riding high in league 1 they could well

be playing Championship football next year. Whether or not Halford

would then want to move to us is debatable. Plus his price could very

well go up as well. If not then another decent right winger is needed

as a priority. Price: Halford £1 million / Other £ Unknown.

McVeigh: Keep. Well all know what the Wee man is about. Hopefully he will have his contract extended, definately deserves it.

Forwards

Earnie: Keep. With the right service Earnshaw will be like a force 5

hurricane in this league. Also has Premiership experience. Hopefully

his only taste of Norwich City life so far hasn''t soured him for the

future. Would hope he''d be with us at the start of next season!

Johansson: Keep. From what i''ve seen of him briefly at Reading and now

against Ipswich this guy looks like he could do extremely well in the

Championship. Would like to see us sign him up during the summer and

with quite a few strikers on Charlton''s books I think we could get him

for a reasonable price. Price: £300k - £500k

Mckenzie: Undecided. Unsure about Leon. Would love to see him stay but

with his injury and his form at the start of the season I don''t know.

The guy is legend it''s just whether he can recapture the kind of form

he had towards the end of the championship winning season for us!

Henderson: Out. I''m not a Henderson Boo Boy and I can tell the boy

loves Norwich City through and through, it just seems a lot of the time

that I don''t quite understand his purpose. He doesnt seem to be moving

any where. Maybe a change at a lower league club whether on loan or

permantely would be best for him.

Jarvis: Keep. Although i''ve decided to keep him I think this season

will be make or break for him. Sort of similar to Henderson in that he

doesnt get many starts and doesnt overly impress when he gets them.

Would probably send him out on loan some where to gain a bit more

experience.

Thorne: Out. From what i''ve seen not good enough!

New Player: Striker. Obviously as a replacement for those leaving,

hopefully some one with quality! Best would be a target man for Earnie

to play off. Who? Not sure. Price: £ Unknown.

Anyway I think I have pretty much covered all the players in the team.

Some of you maybe reading and having a look at the prices and saying we

can''t afford them. Obviously while i''d like to see all the players i''ve

mentioned brought in I understand not all of them will and of course

this is a personal opinion and any new manager (if Worthington goes)

obviously isn''t going to come on here to form his opinions about

playing signings. That being said, the board seriously need to give any

new manager over the summer a fairly substantial transfer budget if

they want to as I''ve said compete at the top of the championship and

move relatively comfortably in to the prem. This should be the aim for

next season!!!

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I agree we need to build, I would question the point of signing Earnshaw, Rehmann and JJ I mean there good players but with no chance of the playoffs Worthy should have used the rest of the year to make final decisions on what he has before drawing up a list of transfer targets.

For my money the areas which need addressing are DEFENCE ( we are on course to concede 150 goals in two seasons) and Midfield - back to basics lets get to two lines of four which works effectively. To do this we potentiall need a new RB and CB although I would have wanted Worthy to use the rest of the season to find out if Shackell and Louis-Jean are these players- then a midfield four with wide players!

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