Big Spectator Events

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

It is being reported tonight on BBC and Sky News that 4500 COVID cases are thought to be linked to a music festival in Cornwall attended by 50 000 people. If this proves to be the case then despite the desire of so many to return to an element of normality then in the short term at least there may have to be a re think on big spectator events. The concept of COVID passes touted as a possibility for October would seem tobe a red herring to me.The vaccine is wonderful at reducing the chances of death and serious injury but has little or no impact on being able to both catch it and pass it on. This being the case what is the point of restricting entry to any event to double vaccinated people, for what purpose. By all means everyone should be encouraged to get vaccinated for their own wellbeing but it no longer seems to help others. Will this have an impact on football and other big events, quite possibly. It is interesting to note that Israel the most vaccinated country in the world is re imposing  restrictions after a surge in infections

[Commonsense 621]

You may be right. However this was an event attended primarily by 18-21 year olds were the number who had been double vaccinated at least 2 weeks previously is going to be much lower than for the average football crowd. 
 

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

8 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

You may be right. However this was an event attended primarily by 18-21 year olds were the number who had been double vaccinated at least 2 weeks previously is going to be much lower than for the average football crowd. 
 

True but double vaccination does not prevent you catching it or passing it on, it does stop you getting ill or worse, time will tell of course but i suspect there will have to be a rethink to some extent on large events, possibly reduced  capacity. What we would like to happen and what may happen are two separate things

[percy varco 198]

The demographic at this event is the group who have not or will not have the jab. 
there have been many other larger events attended by wider age groups without similar results. 
time to be realistic and not get tunnel vision about  one incidet as the media love to do. 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

1 hour ago, Yorkshire Canary said:

True but double vaccination does not prevent you catching it or passing it on, it does stop you getting ill or worse

And that's the point of the vaccine, it's not to irradiate Covid. They need to stop concentrating on the positive case numbers now, they're almost irrelevant the only stats that matter are hospitalisations. 

If you're waiting for Covid to be totally gone before thinking the world can be back to normal, you'll be in for a long wait. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

9 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

And that's the point of the vaccine, it's not to irradiate Covid. They need to stop concentrating on the positive case numbers now, they're almost irrelevant the only stats that matter are hospitalisations. 

If you're waiting for Covid to be totally gone before thinking the world can be back to normal, you'll be in for a long wait. 

I'm very disappointed at the complacency shown by many people that have dropped all forms of being careful and are treating the situation as if it is back to normal.  There is - as usual - a lot of mis-information out there and keeping distance from people is still sensible - as is wearing a mask in enclosed places. 

People saying that masks are no good at all is not the case and it is proven they do offer some limited help to slowing the spread of the virus and even if it is a tiny amount of help, it is better than nothing. 

I don't know what it is like in the corridors and spaces below the stand at the Carra, but the indoor places I've been to, there has been a lot of people not wearing masks, even when there are signs up requesting that people do - and I find that selfish and yes, a bit ignorant. 

We are stuck with this virus going on and really, it ought to be clear to everyone that they should still take precautions to protect others, even if they don't care about getting the virus themselves, because that is what human beings should do - look after each other.  Eventually we MAY get to a situation where we get herd immunity and the virus has little imapct on day to day life, but we are not there yet and anyone with an ounce of sense can realise that things could -  and likely will - get bad again with the way we are collectively carrying on. 

In the stadium itself, people are very close together and in certain enclosed parts of the stands, there may be more likelihood of people passing on the virus, whereas lower down where it is more open, there would be less, but in the end, life has to go on and for me, if people show just a little bit more care for others by taking a bit more precaution generally, then that will help those that are more vulnerable to feel more like getting out and about like the rest of us.

I'm up in the lake district where infection rates have increased rapidly recently - mainly due to holiday makers acting as if there is no virus and showing no care about the situation.  It doesn't surprise me, but I can only describe it as the "I'm alright Jack" mentality - ignorant and selfish. 

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm very disappointed at the complacency shown by many people that have dropped all forms of being careful and are treating the situation as if it is back to normal.  There is - as usual - a lot of mis-information out there and keeping distance from people is still sensible - as is wearing a mask in enclosed places. 

People saying that masks are no good at all is not the case and it is proven they do offer some limited help to slowing the spread of the virus and even if it is a tiny amount of help, it is better than nothing. 

I don't know what it is like in the corridors and spaces below the stand at the Carra, but the indoor places I've been to, there has been a lot of people not wearing masks, even when there are signs up requesting that people do - and I find that selfish and yes, a bit ignorant. 

We are stuck with this virus going on and really, it ought to be clear to everyone that they should still take precautions to protect others, even if they don't care about getting the virus themselves, because that is what human beings should do - look after each other.  Eventually we MAY get to a situation where we get herd immunity and the virus has little imapct on day to day life, but we are not there yet and anyone with an ounce of sense can realise that things could -  and likely will - get bad again with the way we are collectively carrying on. 

In the stadium itself, people are very close together and in certain enclosed parts of the stands, there may be more likelihood of people passing on the virus, whereas lower down where it is more open, there would be less, but in the end, life has to go on and for me, if people show just a little bit more care for others by taking a bit more precaution generally, then that will help those that are more vulnerable to feel more like getting out and about like the rest of us.

I'm up in the lake district where infection rates have increased rapidly recently - mainly due to holiday makers acting as if there is no virus and showing no care about the situation.  It doesn't surprise me, but I can only describe it as the "I'm alright Jack" mentality - ignorant and selfish. 

What are you blathering on about?? How on earth can you deduce from my comment that I'm complacent?? I still wear my mask in indoor environments, am more than happy to keep away from others 😂. 

But it's a FACT we will never get the infection rates down to zero, we have to live with this, if you want to keep hiding until the rates are zero then enjoy your solitude. 

The media need to stop mentioning the daily positive tests as they lead to nonsense like you've written, people having the virus is less of an issue due to the vaccine doing their job, as long as the NHS isn't overwhelmed then it's now just another virus we have to live with. 

Get your vaccines, wear your mask..... BUT LIVE YOUR LIFE. 

[AJ 1,218]

I already miss the good ol' days where people had to stay 2 meters away from me, I hate people anyway

[Capt. Pants 4,227]

We can't stop everybody living their lives just because a relative few might become seriously ill or die. There have been mass spectator events ever since June and there hasn't been a huge increase in the infection rate as feared. 

I agree some people are very selfish, complacent or extremely risk adverse but that shouldn't mean  overall policy is dictated by that. There won't and shouldn't be any change now to attending mass spectator events.

It's now come down to personal choice; stay away if you feel at risk.

[Commonsense 621]

16 minutes ago, AJ said:

I already miss the good ol' days where people had to stay 2 meters away from me, I hate people anyway

Have you tried farting on a regular basis? That usually works.

[lake district canary 4,531]

12 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

What are you blathering on about?? How on earth can you deduce from my comment that I'm complacent?? I still wear my mask in indoor environments, am more than happy to keep away from others 😂. 

But it's a FACT we will never get the infection rates down to zero, we have to live with this, if you want to keep hiding until the rates are zero then enjoy your solitude. 

The media need to stop mentioning the daily positive tests as they lead to nonsense like you've written, people having the virus is less of an issue due to the vaccine doing their job, as long as the NHS isn't overwhelmed then it's now just another virus we have to live with. 

Get your vaccines, wear your mask..... BUT LIVE YOUR LIFE. 

You misunderstood my post, I wasn't directing it at you, it was just a general comment and I generally agree with you - but it is still clear that many people cannot just live their lives because they are vulnerable to the virus, whether they've been vaccinated or not and that is why everyone else should still be taking precautions and wearing masks. 

As I said, I don't know what it is like in Norwich but up here there are so many people not wearing masks even when signs request them to that I find such a shame.  Wearing a mask and people will be helping in some small measure to allow those more vulnerable to feel able to be out and about more, because it is clear that there are still many who have not returned to normal and if Israel is anything to go by, we will be facing a similar situation in a few months, even maybe weeks, when the amount of hospitalisations will become critical again.

Your last sentence is ok, get vaccinated wear your mask and live your life......but if others don't do that, then they are affecting your ability to live your life...because they are just selfish.

[lake district canary 4,531]

34 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

We can't stop everybody living their lives just because a relative few might become seriously ill or die. There have been mass spectator events ever since June and there hasn't been a huge increase in the infection rate as feared. 

I agree some people are very selfish, complacent or extremely risk adverse but that shouldn't mean  overall policy is dictated by that. There won't and shouldn't be any change now to attending mass spectator events.

It's now come down to personal choice; stay away if you feel at risk.

The personal choice imo is either to be selfish or not selfish.  Vulnerable people would feel more like being able to live their lives if the rest of us wear masks in enclosed places - and wearing a mask is no great hardship.

The reason to wear a mask is to help others, not to help yourself. Now that is a hard concept for some people to grasp, I grant you, but it is the case. In other words people can live their lives, do everything they want to do - but they could wear a mask in enclosed situations like shops and businesses - and they would be helping others. 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by lake district canary

[fredherring 136]

5 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

The personal choice imo is either to be selfish or not selfish.  Vulnerable people would feel more like being able to live their lives if the rest of us wear masks in enclosed places - and wearing a mask is no great hardship.

The reason to wear a mask is to help others, not to help yourself. Now that is a hard concept for some people to grasp, I grant you, but it is the case. In other words people can live their lives, do everything they want to do - but they could wear a mask in enclosed situations like shops and businesses - and they would be helping others. 

 

What absolute rubbish. 

Its now been proven that the surgical masks most wear offer only 10% protection on infection going in or out.

Most masks are useless. 

If you all gave a damn you'd be wearing n95. But very few mask advocates or supposedly vulernable, bother. 

So get off your moral high horse. 

As for crowds. It was a huge moshpit with many young unvaccinated. 

And how many hospitalised or dead? 

 

Get a grip on proportion and reality. 

[Indy 3,297]

We haven’t had a Lakey’s Lecture for a while……. 👍😉

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, fredherring said:

And how many hospitalised or dead?

100 a day average deaths now chap, highest since March.

[Greavsy 2,413]

After seeing the title of this thread I was expecting to see an invite for our larger fans to a (socially distanced) get together.

I'd expect @Uncle Fredto be there and the obligatory scampi dinner!

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

53 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

You misunderstood my post, I wasn't directing it at you, it was just a general comment and I generally agree with you - but it is still clear that many people cannot just live their lives because they are vulnerable to the virus, whether they've been vaccinated or not and that is why everyone else should still be taking precautions and wearing masks. 

As I said, I don't know what it is like in Norwich but up here there are so many people not wearing masks even when signs request them to that I find such a shame.  Wearing a mask and people will be helping in some small measure to allow those more vulnerable to feel able to be out and about more, because it is clear that there are still many who have not returned to normal and if Israel is anything to go by, we will be facing a similar situation in a few months, even maybe weeks, when the amount of hospitalisations will become critical again.

Your last sentence is ok, get vaccinated wear your mask and live your life......but if others don't do that, then they are affecting your ability to live your life...because they are just selfish.

Fair enough, but you did directly quote me 😂

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

18 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

100 a day average deaths now chap, highest since March.

How many of them are not vaccinated? That's not a loaded question I just don't know, and it's an important part of the figures. 

[Indy 3,297]

2 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

How many of them are not vaccinated? That's not a loaded question I just don't know, and it's an important part of the figures. 

How many had underlying conditions which means they were in their last few months too? This died with Covid is a poor measure as average death rates are pretty stable to the past 5 years!

[Nuff Said 5,131]

16 minutes ago, fredherring said:

What absolute rubbish. 

Its now been proven that the surgical masks most wear offer only 10% protection on infection going in or out.

Most masks are useless. 

If you all gave a damn you'd be wearing n95. But very few mask advocates or supposedly vulernable, bother. 

So get off your moral high horse. 

As for crowds. It was a huge moshpit with many young unvaccinated. 

And how many hospitalised or dead? 

 

Get a grip on proportion and reality. 

But your attitude appears to be (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong) because you think most masks are useless, we should all act like it’s all over. In which case you’re the one who needs to get a grip on reality. Given where we’ve come from, and what Israel shows may still happen, I and many others believe we still have a duty to behave in a way that reflects consideration and concern for others as well as ourselves. As we already do by not speeding past schools, playing loud music late at night, or generally not being a d1ckhead.
 

All Lakey has said is that it’s sad that many people behave as they want to without consideration of others, and I agree with him.

[Nuff Said 5,131]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

How many had underlying conditions which means they were in their last few months too? This died with Covid is a poor measure as average death rates are pretty stable to the past 5 years!

How many deaths have been prevented by anti-Covid measures though Indy? I used to drive around 10,000 miles a year for my job, and I’ve done about 400 in the last 18 months. The amount of traffic will have reduced so traffic accidents will have too, cases of flu are massively down due to social distancing and so on. Don’t cherry pick facts!

[canarydan23 4,060]

15 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

How many of them are not vaccinated? That's not a loaded question I just don't know, and it's an important part of the figures. 

No idea, but the salient fact is that the daily deaths are rising, despite the fact that % of population vaccinated continues to rise.

[lake district canary 4,531]

54 minutes ago, fredherring said:

Its now been proven that the surgical masks most wear offer only 10% protection on infection going in or out.

Ah, right, so it is not worth protecting one in ten people. I see.  Take ten members of your family in a room, you walk in with the virus, not knowing because you have no symptoms but are infectious to others - which one of those ten people would you want to infect? 

[Uncle Fred 526]

I don’t spread diseases so don’t wear masks period 

[canarydan23 4,060]

6 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Ah, right, so it is not worth protecting one in ten people. I see.  Take ten members of your family in a room, you walk in with the virus, not knowing because you have no symptoms but are infectious to others - which one of those ten people would you want to infect? 

He's talking about the proper surgical masks and claiming that the normal masks people wear into Tesco don't do anything.

It's demonstrable ****, regardless of what he's read on some article linked on reddit. When I take my mask off after wearing, particularly for a length of time, the inside of it is damp. That's caused by germ-carrying droplets in my breathe. The fact that the mask is damp shows that the moisture has been caught by it and not emitted into the atmosphere. Even if a lot of it escapes through the mask, some of it has been captured and the captured stuff may have infected someone.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t spread diseases so don’t wear masks period 

[ROBFLECK 132]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t spread diseases so don’t wear masks period 

you're a disease on this forum though....

[canarydan23 4,060]

5 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t spread diseases so don’t wear masks period 

Uncle Dead

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, fredherring said:

What absolute rubbish. 

Its now been proven that the surgical masks most wear offer only 10% protection on infection going in or out.

Most masks are useless. 

Really? Do you have any reliable evidence to support this? Or is one "study" by a fringe group that is then widely promoted by right wing websites with dubious funding?

Academic research projects have also repeatedly proven their efficacy, with one report published in The Lancet on 3 June 2020 - analysing data from 172 studies in 16 countries - concluding that there is just a three per cent chance of catching Covid when wearing a face covering.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/masks-rules-protection-covid-lockdown-b1879006.html

[Indy 3,297]

38 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

How many deaths have been prevented by anti-Covid measures though Indy? I used to drive around 10,000 miles a year for my job, and I’ve done about 400 in the last 18 months. The amount of traffic will have reduced so traffic accidents will have too, cases of flu are massively down due to social distancing and so on. Don’t cherry pick facts!

I’m not, how many additional deaths from stress related diseases will be down to lockdown, finances etc. There’s always a balance and if you look at the key data over 90% of deaths are in the 75 years and over with some underlying health conditions.

No doubt we prolonged some people’s lives by shutting down, but that’s not an option forever, people need to come to terms that this is an illness the same as cancer and heart disease yet we still happily eat junk food and have a big part of the population over weight!