As a club we will get left behind

[AJ 1,218]

Having lots of money doesn't always work. Just ask Fulham, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Derby, Sunderland, Wigan. And, to prove an even bigger point, most of those are in league one

[BigFish 1,986]

In reality there are no investors in football, the only people who make money are the players and other high end employees. Everyone else loses cash, except those who go in for asset stripping. Basic Maths.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

2 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Could always try the Fulham model and throw 100 million on players.. and.. get.. relegated

ah

That is what we are trying isn't it? 

We're at £54m but still looking to bring a few in, so wouldn't be a surprise if that takes us to £75m to £80m. 

Then we might get relegated?

[Uncle Fred 526]

Einstein’s definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

this model has been tested to destruction in the premier league and can’t possibly work

why some are still trying to flog this dead horse I really can’t understand 

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Many other clubs have got promoted and managed to stay in the PL for 5 or so years.

1. Who?

2. Where are they now?

3. Are you including clubs that have traditionally been higher than us in football hierarchy?

Taking these factors into account, I can only think of Palace and Burnley that currently apply - and I'm not sure that the outlook for them is too rosy. 

You have not really given us any evidence that our ownership model has hindered us in any way.

[Badger 2,405]

6 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Einstein’s definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

this model has been tested to destruction in the premier league and can’t possibly work

why some are still trying to flog this dead horse I really can’t understand 

Which is exactly why teams who cannot afford it should not throw money at vain attempts to survive - you cannot keep flogging this dead horse of trying to buy success.

As you say, this would be the definition of madness as it has been shown time and again to fail in the long run.

[Uncle Fred 526]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Which is exactly why teams who cannot afford it should not throw money at vain attempts to survive - you cannot keep flogging this dead horse of trying to buy success.

As you say, this would be the definition of madness as it has been shown time and again to fail in the long run.

I have not seen anyway using the model of an astute stinking rich Chinese owner to run a club so there is one obvious model out there just waiting to deliver guaranteed success 

[Indy 3,283]

I’m not bothered about owners, we had the money this transfer window and yet the key areas we all know including comments by Farke and Webber in CB & DM to become more physical and combative has been totally overlooked for three young players with potential.

Call me cynical but to me we’ve bought for potential to develop and sell future assets than to stay in the premiership.

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

3 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Could always try the Fulham model and throw 100 million on players.. and.. get.. relegated

 

ah

By the time the transfer window finishes I’d expect our outlay to be near 60 million possibly over. Which is a lot of money for us. Fulham are after all owned by a billionaire who allows his son to spend millions on building an alternative wrestling company to rival WWE and who also owns the Jacksonville Jaguars in the NFL we will never match the money they have to be able to throw away. So our relative spend is putting our club in probably more peril than Fulham’s did should we follow in their fate 

[Badger 2,405]

Just to insert a level of fact into our discussions, Sky did an average league position measured over 50 years a couple of years ago. It is a little out of date (2 years) but that will not make much difference. This shows that our average position over the last 50 years is just below 22nd (22.2). 

Using this, we are currently 2 places above our average position, which suggests that our ownership model has not disadvantaged us.

* Just a technical point on averages - our average of 22nd is the 15th highest. This is due to the nature of averages - think about it, to average 1st you would have to be first every time.

https://tribuna.com/en/news/arsenal-2020-02-06-alternative-premier-league-table-based-on-50year-average-position-where-do-arsenal-rank/

Edited August 22, 2021 by Badger
Added link

[Commonsense 618]

I’m sure Derby, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and Sunderland fans would swap places too. The pant wettest on here are frankly an embarrassment, If only we had spent billions like Manchester City and PSG. How dare we be behind them?

[Jim Smith 2,314]

3 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Instead of all this whataboutery let's get down to brass tacks of this particular argument.  

Many other clubs have got promoted and managed to stay in the PL for 5 or so years. We haven't despite having more attempts than most. It's not about why can't we be *insert club* or how other teams have chosen to waste their money, it's about that depressing reality check we get every time we try to compete at this level and how we can just never seem to compete with whatever other clubs are going through purple patches at the time.

Everyone including me is just really frustrated by it all. It feels like we've hit our glass ceiling

+and while we've done amazingly well to consistently hit the top of our potential it's that our potential is so low that's the killer compared to other similar sized or smaller clubs because they have the finances to compete and we don't. I don't exactly know what the solution here is, but I feel and understand all the frustration coming out when we look so hopelessly out of our depth like yesterday

Good post. Very much how I feel. Not being able to/prepared to find the extra bit of cash for signings like Ajer and Armstrong (who I wasn’t particularly bothered about but others were) and then seeing them go to rivals says it all.

 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

3 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

We’ve spent more money in the transfer window than all 6 of those clubs.

Net?

[Commonsense 618]

1 hour ago, Uncle Fred said:

I have not seen anyway using the model of an astute stinking rich Chinese owner to run a club so there is one obvious model out there just waiting to deliver guaranteed success 

I think Reading are currently trying that model and also have a transfer embargo. They’ve previously had Russian owners and Thai owners as well. Clearly none of them have worked!!

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I’m not bothered about owners, we had the money this transfer window and yet the key areas we all know including comments by Farke and Webber in CB & DM to become more physical and combative has been totally overlooked for three young players with potential.

Call me cynical but to me we’ve bought for potential to develop and sell future assets than to stay in the premiership.

Agreed. 

[duke63 541]

Football at the top level is now a very rich man's plaything. Its not really a sport anymore.

[BigFish 1,986]

27 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Good post. Very much how I feel. Not being able to/prepared to find the extra bit of cash for signings like Ajer and Armstrong (who I wasn’t particularly bothered about but others were) and then seeing them go to rivals says it all.

What exactly does it say @Jim Smith?

[Badger 2,405]

35 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Good post. Very much how I feel. Not being able to/prepared to find the extra bit of cash for signings like Ajer and Armstrong (who I wasn’t particularly bothered about but others were) and then seeing them go to rivals says it all.

 

But Jim, you talk as if this were unique to us. But we have seen in this window alone, have Villa outbid Arsenal for Buendia and Palace were outbid by Southampton for Armstrong.

It happens all the time. Clubs beard what they feel a player is worth to their team: only fools would pay more than they think something is worth to them.

It is not a Norwich City thing: every single club in world football will have experience of "losing" a player because they were not prepared to pay what was being asked. 

[Uncle Fred 526]

40 minutes ago, Commonsense said:

I think Reading are currently trying that model and also have a transfer embargo. They’ve previously had Russian owners and Thai owners as well. Clearly none of them have worked!!

None were astute and stinking rich 

[Badger 2,405]

2 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

None were astute and stinking rich 

To be honest, Fred, if you were stinking rich and astute, you wouldn't buy a football club - 😁

Unless it were for a hobby. So we need somebody who is stinking rich, is astute and is looking for a very expensive hobby. Let's see if we can narrow it down any further? 😁

Edited August 22, 2021 by Badger

[Uncle Fred 526]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

To be honest, Fred, if you were stinking rich and astute, you wouldn't buy a football club - 😁

Unless it were for a hobby. So we need somebody who is stinking rich, is astute and is looking for a very expensive hobby. Let's see if we can narrow it down any further? 😁

Plenty PSG, Man City, Chelsea the list goes on and on 

[Badger 2,405]

4 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Plenty PSG, Man City, Chelsea the list goes on and on 

Oh indeed... ad infinitum

[Herman 9,716]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

Plenty PSG, Man City, Chelsea the list goes on and on 

All soulless entities with millions of plastic fans, (quite a few halfy-halfy scarf owners amongst them too). Is that what you want Wavy?

[CanaryCuddles 20]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Einstein’s definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

this model has been tested to destruction in the premier league and can’t possibly work

why some are still trying to flog this dead horse I really can’t understand 

Lol. How has the model been tested to destruction in the Premier league? We have had one season in the Premier league under Farke.

[peter72 3]

You do all the hard work by getting promoted and then when it comes time to spendiing  a bit of cash  your owners go awol. They then give you all the spill  about balancing the books and being sensible with the money and you lot buy into it every time.. The lack of ambition is utterly disgusting, boardering on thieving and yet Carrow Road is full every week and seem content with that plan?

You are suppose to learn from your mistakes but that clearly isn't the case in Norfolk.  Your season is over.

 

[Mr Angry 1,545]

51 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Net?

Net spend is more than Brighton, Burnley and Watford, although there’s still 9 days for all teams to buy or sell.

[Mullet 293]

3 hours ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Instead of all this whataboutery let's get down to brass tacks of this particular argument.  

Many other clubs have got promoted and managed to stay in the PL for 5 or so years. We haven't despite having more attempts than most. It's not about why can't we be *insert club* or how other teams have chosen to waste their money, it's about that depressing reality check we get every time we try to compete at this level and how we can just never seem to compete with whatever other clubs are going through purple patches at the time.

Everyone including me is just really frustrated by it all. It feels like we've hit our glass ceiling

+and while we've done amazingly well to consistently hit the top of our potential it's that our potential is so low that's the killer compared to other similar sized or smaller clubs because they have the finances to compete and we don't. I don't exactly know what the solution here is, but I feel and understand all the frustration coming out when we look so hopelessly out of our depth like yesterday

Absolutely you summed it up no matter what we try we hit a our ceiling. I'm glad the club has made more of an effort to compete in the Premier league compared to last time by spending some money but you can see that selling one Premier league rated player for £35 million and replacing him with 3 championship players worth £10 million each is actually not achieving anything. But that is were we are its just hard to comprehend that the club broke the transfer record twice in one week and we haven't progressed much beyond our last effort in the Premier league. We develop players and make lots off profit off the back of that, we then sell that player to an established Premier league team, good for them but we are going round in circles.

Nobody realistically expected us to get anything from Man City but we are miles away from competing. Giannoulis who I really like and was great in the championship got absolutely turned inside out not once but several times the gulf in quality is massive. Other clubs have come up from the championship and been a lot more competitive than we have. Maybe we have under estimated that a Premier league quality defence is the thing that actually gives you a chance in games and we should be building a base around that. Don't concede and you always have a chance. We are always going to concede goals it just a case of how many. 

 

[Well b back 3,190]

Arsenal have spent big over the years and they are getting tonked by Chelsea.

Watching the arrival of the Man City team bus yesterday made me realise what a circus the EPL is becoming. The bus snaked it’s way around the huge number of fans lining the route as the tourists all got their photos of the ground and the coach. As they left the bus they were introduced to the crowds one by one, even that was staged with Grealish leaving the bus last. There was even smoke and flares such as you would normally get as the teams enter the pitch.

[Badger 2,405]

3 minutes ago, Mullet said:

We are always going to concede goals it just a case of how many. 

I would quite like to have a bet with you that this won't be the case.😁

(I only bet on sure things)

[Mullet 293]

4 hours ago, Mr Angry said:

We’ve spent more money in the transfer window than all 6 of those clubs.

But if you want to compete in Formula 1 do you buy a couple of Formula 1 cars or 8 go carts.