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Mullet

As a club we will get left behind

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As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

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Unthinkable to be behind Leeds in the queue for investment....

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Posted (edited)

When the premier league money bubble pops. We may be one of the only clubs left. We've already seen the collapse of the Italian top tier. Spanish league is currently struggling too where massive clubs like Barcelona are having to "off load" to survive. We'll soon see teams like Reading signing Barcelona "stars".

Edited by Michael Starr
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6 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

70% love it and support it, at least we’re not blaming VAR yet. 

I mean it did it's job right and helped us out for once last night!

 

Seems very much improved this season and the 'refs letting the little things go' is also helping to be fair

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

Understand what you are saying but as I have said before, if you take this to a logical conclusion and every club in the Premier League is owned by a billionaire, at the end of the season three clubs will still get relegated (I have assumed that the chances of more than three clubs finishing with exactly the same points, goal difference, goals scored, record against each other is pretty remote). Investment is always a gamble, there are clubs that have progressed as a result of investment and there are an equal amount of clubs that are plying their trade in the Championship and League 1 and in dire financial straits as a result of spending lots of money chasing the Premier League dream.............

 

Edited by Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB
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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

No model guarantees success...although there is clearly some correlation between money (transfers/wages) and league placing (especially at the more extreme end of things).

I think our current 'model' is probably working as well as it can given our financial limitations. But even if we do manage to stay up, we'll always be there or thereabouts when it comes to the drop.

When the current owners decide to retire, I think that will be the time as a whole club that we need to discuss the next steps in our journey. What I do know is that we must not fall into the trap of stagnating; that only ever leads one way.

OTBC

Edited by Disco Dales Jockstrap

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9 minutes ago, Michael Starr said:

When the premier league money bubble pops. We may be one of the only clubs left.

Will it ever pop? It survived the financial crisis and Covid. Short of nuclear war, I can't see much stopping it.

OTBC

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1 hour ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

This doesn't make sense to me. You have to continually change the clubs you think we're behind and then conveniently forget the clubs you used to think we're behind.

Since Webber and Farke have been here we have quite clearly constantly progressed.

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

This doesn't make sense to me. You have to continually change the clubs you think we're behind and then conveniently forget the clubs you used to think we're behind.

Since Webber and Farke have been here we have quite clearly constantly progressed.

Indeed, I'm sure I saw the same thread five years ago with Bournemouth, Stoke and Swansea...

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10 years ago it would have been unthinkable that we would be ahead of insert names of teams here and in ten years time it will unthinkable that we will be ahead of insert names of teams here.

 

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Since Webber and Farke have been here we have quite clearly constantly progressed.

Yes, 100% agreed Nutty. We must never forget that there are a lot of clubs that would give everything to be where we are. That said, if we are to continue to progress, we do need to look at all options available when the time for change comes.

OTBC

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1 hour ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

We lost to Liverpool and Man City.

Give it some time ffs.

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10 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Indeed, I'm sure I saw the same thread five years ago with Bournemouth, Stoke and Swansea...

... and a few years before that, it was Middlesborough, Portsmouth and Sunderland.

Oh and lets not forget about Hull, Wigan, QPR, Blackburn, Huddersfield, Reading, Blackpool and Bolton!

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24 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

Will it ever pop? It survived the financial crisis and Covid. Short of nuclear war, I can't see much stopping it.

OTBC

That’s it, it won’t “pop”. This is football now and always will be.

I sincerely hope we can make a stand against it and prove it can be done but we have to accept the odds are against us. 

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

We lost to Liverpool and Man City.

Give it some time ffs.

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but I think you need to try to understand that I think what has toppled people isn’t the defeats, it’s the manner of them. 
 

against Liverpool we looked like we were competing, hence there was no meltdown, but against Man City, we fell short in every area, particularly in, it looked like, heart and desire - the two things a football fan requires more than anything - hence the meltdown.

im keeping the faith because there’s not much to gain from doing anything other than really but I can understand why people are feeling the way they are.

Edited by Coneys Knee

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13 minutes ago, Badger said:

... and a few years before that, it was Middlesborough, Portsmouth and Sunderland.

Oh and lets not forget about Hull, Wigan, QPR, Blackburn, Huddersfield, Reading, Blackpool and Bolton!

You can add Coventry to that list.............

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Instead of all this whataboutery let's get down to brass tacks of this particular argument.  

Many other clubs have got promoted and managed to stay in the PL for 5 or so years. We haven't despite having more attempts than most. It's not about why can't we be *insert club* or how other teams have chosen to waste their money, it's about that depressing reality check we get every time we try to compete at this level and how we can just never seem to compete with whatever other clubs are going through purple patches at the time.

Everyone including me is just really frustrated by it all. It feels like we've hit our glass ceiling

+and while we've done amazingly well to consistently hit the top of our potential it's that our potential is so low that's the killer compared to other similar sized or smaller clubs because they have the finances to compete and we don't. I don't exactly know what the solution here is, but I feel and understand all the frustration coming out when we look so hopelessly out of our depth like yesterday

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8 minutes ago, Coneys Knee said:

I wholeheartedly agree with this, but I think you need to try to understand that I think what has toppled people isn’t the defeats, it’s the manner of them. 
 

against Liverpool we looked like we were competing, hence there was no meltdown, but against Man City, we fell short in every area, particularly in, it looked like, heart and desire - the two things a football fan requires more than anything - hence the meltdown.

im keeping the faith because there’s not much to gain from doing anything other than really but I can understand why people are feeling the way they are.

I don't understand it. 

You don't have a meltdown after losing that game like that.

You believe that they are smart enough to know it wasn't good enough and that they will continue to work and if, once we have played Palace, Burnley, Brighton, Southampton, Newcastle, Brentford, Watford et al and we still aren't getting any points, I will begin to worry.

Two games in? There's no excuses for having a meltdown.

Not when you know they aren't fit yet. Not when they're playing supergiants.

City fans, our club is more deserving of your faith.

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We’re at the stage where the same 5/6 teams will be yoyo teams, too good for the championship but can’t compete in the premier league 

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20 minutes ago, Badger said:

... and a few years before that, it was Middlesborough, Portsmouth and Sunderland.

Oh and lets not forget about Hull, Wigan, QPR, Blackburn, Huddersfield, Reading, Blackpool and Bolton!

And let's not forget that last year there was Sheffield United.

Some people forget that football is cyclical, and we've done extremely well over the last decade to ensure that the lowest part of our 'cycle' has been two mid-table Championship finishes.

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1 minute ago, FatCanary said:

City fans, our club is more deserving of your faith.

To be fair, I think that they get it from the vast majority - you must never fall into the trap of thinking that Forum posters are typical of the fans as a whole - and the twitterati are even less so.

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2 minutes ago, Badger said:

To be fair, I think that they get it from the vast majority - you must never fall into the trap of thinking that Forum posters are typical of the fans as a whole - and the twitterati are even less so.

Oh I agree, the scope of my comment was more aimed at the Sh1tterati you mention

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1 hour ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

We’ve spent more money in the transfer window than all 6 of those clubs.

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Posted (edited)

The time for properly pondering investment and alternative models is yet to come.

We are only at the start of the current project (a project which has already given us what fans of Ipswich, Forest, Wednesday, Derby, Boro, Sunderland could only dream of). 

Let's let the Webberlution fully play out and see where we are then.

If we yo yo a few more times but eventually stick and consolidate it will be worth it. If we fail to achieve that we can contemplate another path but still with some trophies and awesome memories in the bank.

Edited by Cantiaci Canary

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13 minutes ago, Christoph Stiepermann said:

Instead of all this whataboutery let's get down to brass tacks of this particular argument.  

Many other clubs have got promoted and managed to stay in the PL for 5 or so years. We haven't despite having more attempts than most. It's not about why can't we be *insert club* or how other teams have chosen to waste their money, it's about that depressing reality check we get every time we try to compete at this level and how we can just never seem to compete with whatever other clubs are going through purple patches at the time.

Everyone including me is just really frustrated by it all. It feels like we've hit our glass ceiling

+and while we've done amazingly well to consistently hit the top of our potential it's that our potential is so low that's the killer compared to other similar sized or smaller clubs because they have the finances to compete and we don't. I don't exactly know what the solution here is, but I feel and understand all the frustration coming out when we look so hopelessly out of our depth like yesterday

This doesn't make sense to me either. We just won the championship with record points. Other clubs who remained in the PL for more than one season never got back and some are in League One.

This will be our sixth season in the PL since 2010. I think some people would prefer we got relegated in 2014 and were now in League One. Of course it would be better if we'd spent every season since 2010 in the PL. Is that really your benchmark?

I read yesterday that we are no closer to Man City than we were 2 years ago. That's true. But they just spent 100m on one player. Which clubs are closer to Man City than 2 years ago?

 

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2 hours ago, Mullet said:

As more and more investors look to take over football clubs we will gradually fall down the pecking order.

We now find ourselves behind Watford, Leeds, Brentford, Palace, Brighton, Burnley to name a few and this has happened within the past 10 years and would have been unthinkable back then. But as every year goes by another team with the necessary buying power will over take us. We are trying to keep up with our alternative model of buying and developing young players but as admirable as that is, this is not the model that works for the top league.

I think whilst our model stays the same we are not progressing

 

This ignores the fact there's a host of billionaire owners below us already.

And as more and more billionaire owners exist,  it doesn't change only 17 teams can remain in the Prem.

I also don't think its relevant to post this after losing to Liverpool and Manchester City because the majority of billionaire owned football clubs will also lose to them this season.

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