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Emi Buendia - Transfer details

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16 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

You're welcome,  not many are bestowed with that title, but boy oh boy  have you earned it.

Ah well, keep trying, maybe at some point you’ll manage a coherent argument.

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3 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

But where you the bloke perchance with 'BUNNY' printed on the back of your Yellow Norwich City shirt...

One of my old youth teammates has Bunny on his back and still sits in South Stand.  Did he have unfeasibly large hands and an olive tan?  Could leap like a rabbit and was well known in local league, not a clue where he got his nickname from haha. 🙂

Edited by Google Bot

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4 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Crrrrrrrr.....etin!!!

Not even worthy of the appended 'io' eh Corkio? 

Cretinio - sounds like he could play CDM for us! 

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23 hours ago, chicken said:

Yes. People have suggested that it was the club that instigated the move/sale not the player.

1) Not the boards job, we have a sporting director for a reason, he leads negotiations and the decision making in regards to transfer strategy. The board will judge him on his results, as will we. The joint majority shareholders were probably kept in the loop in regards to the strategy but they were unlikely to have made the decision themselves.
2) No one has said that the player forced the move - just that the club respected his wishes though we do know he was interested in a move away hence his lack of focus at the start of last season. If he wasn't interested in a move or was more level headed about it he would have been praised like Max Aarons. Sort of suggests it was more than just a case of "oh wow, Arsenal want me".
3) Not really a massive gamble is it? Our best player but it is increasingly looking like we only saw his best and most committed performances for us after he was told he would be allowed to leave this summer (going on the Athletic article timeline). Every move is a gamble, Buendia didn't really deliver for us in the PL last time out. 7 assists of which about half we from the many corners he took.

Look, I rate him, I like him, I have no problem agreeing that last season and the first championship season he proved himself to be invaluable and our most creative forward thinking player. However, for the fee received we have signed four players - Rashica, Tzolis, Sargent and Lees-Melou.

I don't see that as a gamble as such. At least, not as much of a gamble as it was to sign Buendia for £1.5m when we signed him and to hope that he could become a £35m player.

There is one thing that is accurate though - if we had kept him, on his own he wouldn't have kept us up. The squad needed investment, and we had to sell a player to do that. Why would the club have said ok to him moving and not Cantwell or Aarons? Are they more model professionals? More likely to stay committed or just that we didn't have the offers coming in for them to the same level? Because that is the only argument left now - why did we sell Buendia to fund the squad investment and not Aarons or Cantwell?

I've liked your post Chicken and I agree with just about everything you said in it.

However..................... for the sake of correctness - it's absolutely untrue to say half of Buendia's assists in the Premier League "were from the many corners he took". We scored precisely one  goal direct from a corner last time in the Premier League (McLean v Man City). That was Buendia's only assist from a corner. 

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I also think that in regards to Emi not delivering for us in the Prem - his desire to chase back and win balls, or press like he did vs Man City is what sets him apart.  The passion is just built inside of him as a natural reaction.

We were a different team when he was injured or suspended, and i don't think it was solely due to missing his creativity moving forwards - it's his game as a whole, and applying pressure as he did is not a stat that is easily measurable vs assists etc.

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22 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Not even worthy of the appended 'io' eh Corkio? 

Cretinio - sounds like he could play CDM for us! 

If I ended up playing CDM for us then any criticism of Webber’s transfer policy would be entirely warranted.

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3 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

I also think that in regards to Emi not delivering for us in the Prem - his desire to chase back and win balls, or press like he did vs Man City is what sets him apart.  The passion is just built inside of him as a natural reaction.

We were a different team when he was injured or suspended, and i don't think it was solely due to missing his creativity moving forwards - it's his game as a whole, and applying pressure as he did is not a stat that is easily measurable vs assists etc.

Yeah, his tenacity was something we really missed against Man City and at times against Liverpool. I didn’t enjoy the sight of Gilmour jogging back just before we conceded vs Liverpool. Hopefully something Farke will be working on.

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1 hour ago, The Bunny said:

Ah well, keep trying, maybe at some point you’ll manage a coherent argument.

Like Yours? DMML.  

 

25 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

If I ended up playing CDM for us then any criticism of Webber’s transfer policy would be entirely warranted.

So untill then....... why not see what happens,  as in case you haven't  noticed,  the  transfer  window hasn't closed. 

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7 hours ago, Greavsy said:

Not even worthy of the appended 'io' eh Corkio? 

Cretinio - sounds like he could play CDM for us! 

The 'O' is awarded for services  to humour and non-whingyness.  No one likes losing, but going off half cocked after losing to man City and BEFORE  the transfer window has closed is just a bit premature imo. More likely to call him Cunny than Bunnyo. If Cunny gets through the filter ...Good stuff ,if not, I was saying  C u n n y. Its an old classic of a name.  Some may not know it.

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3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

The 'O' is awarded for services  to humour and non-whingyness.  No one likes losing, but going off half cocked after losing to man City and BEFORE  the transfer window has closed is just a bit premature imo. More likely to call him Cunny than Bunnyo. If Cunny gets through the filter ...Good stuff ,if not, I was saying  C u n n y. Its an old classic of a name.  Some may not know it.

Well in that case I'm proud and honoured to be part of the club, Corkio! 

 

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2 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Well in that case I'm proud and honoured to be part of the club, Corkio! 

 

Again, you are welcome.  If I like someone's style...even if I don't agree with them all the time  , they get the 'O' ....if not then I think of a convolution of their posting name and go with that, hence Billious etc.

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5 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

More likely to call him Cunny than Bunnyo. If Cunny gets through the filter ...Good stuff ,if not, I was saying  C u n n y. Its an old classic of a name.  Some may not know it.

Are you actually 10?

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On 25/08/2021 at 12:11, Thirsty Lizard said:

I've liked your post Chicken and I agree with just about everything you said in it.

However..................... for the sake of correctness - it's absolutely untrue to say half of Buendia's assists in the Premier League "were from the many corners he took". We scored precisely one  goal direct from a corner last time in the Premier League (McLean v Man City). That was Buendia's only assist from a corner. 

Ok, I think two others came from set pieces - at least that is what I recall from the research I did.

Either way, that is pretty awful considering when he was playing he took a very large percentage of our corners. He wasn't good at them either.

Even if it is just one. 6 assists over 36 games is not great is it? One assist from open play every 6 appearances... it's arguably worse when you consider some of those were doubled up in a single game. If I could be arsed to dig up the post I actually collected the stats in.

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On 25/08/2021 at 12:19, Google Bot said:

I also think that in regards to Emi not delivering for us in the Prem - his desire to chase back and win balls, or press like he did vs Man City is what sets him apart.  The passion is just built inside of him as a natural reaction.

We were a different team when he was injured or suspended, and i don't think it was solely due to missing his creativity moving forwards - it's his game as a whole, and applying pressure as he did is not a stat that is easily measurable vs assists etc.

I mean, it kinda is. And his stats in that region are certainly better than say, Hoolahan's - though Hoolahan was often deployed as a true No.10 at the point of a diamond midfield so was rarely asked to do that.

I do also feel though, that as hard as he could track back, in our premier league season, he wasn't as effective at it as last season. The premier league season was fraught with him getting caught up field often slapping the turf after failing to dribble it past three players rather than pass it.

I do think we can be guilty of praising him a little above where he actually was for us in that premier league season. Perhaps because last season he was very much better in many aspects of his game.

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6 hours ago, chicken said:

Even if it is just one. 6 assists over 36 games is not great is it? One assist from open play every 6 appearances... it's arguably worse when you consider some of those were doubled up in a single game. If I could be arsed to dig up the post I actually collected the stats in.

Emi was joint 3rd for assists in the prem in 2019-2020. Not bad for a club that finished rock bottom. 

https://sports.ndtv.com/english-premier-league/stats/assists-player-statsdetail/2019-20

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On 24/08/2021 at 23:32, chicken said:

Your point was to suggest that we'd have to pay more for players if we raised £5m more on Buendia's sale... so we'd have bought two £12m players... 

£5m wouldn't have inflated prices really. £10m maybe... but in reality, we had several over the line or in the pipeline already.

Or... 

The point being, If we'd raised £5 million more for Buendia, and paid £2.5million more for each of Sargent and Rshica, most fans would've been happier. But financially, the club is no better off. 

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3 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

6th not 3rd but still a good return.

No, joint 3rd. Level with David Silva, Mahrez and Firmino on 8. 

IIRC he was second behind only De Bruyne before project restart. 

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16 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

Are you actually a Rabbit?

 

You started it.

Corkio - how big is your dad?

just wondering if hes bigger than Bunny's

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1 hour ago, chicken said:

He wasn't. That source is hugely incorrect. Look at the actual premier league stats rather than some obscure source.

I stand corrected. Looks like he was 11th with 7. Looks like he dropped down the ranks after the restart.

Even so, that return is very good, given where we ended up.

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Just to evidence this, three other sources also don't have Buendia inside the top ten assists - all are far more reliable sources even if they don't all share the exact same stats.

Official Premier League stats have him on joint 11th with 7 other players and 7 assists.
The BBC Ratio Times site don't list Buendia inside the top ten but if he had 7 assists by their list he would be joint 10th place with at least one other player.
Squawka also have Buendia outside the top ten and seem to line up with the Premier League stats.
Football Critic has Buendia joint 11th again. It also allows you to sort by minutes to assists, at which point Buendia is put into 37th place.

In short, the only source I can see that places Buendia as high as joint third is that one, single, isolated website. I would suggest that it is therefore incredibly inaccurate as every other source has De Bruyne on 20 assists and Buendia on 7.

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49 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

I stand corrected. Looks like he was 11th with 7. Looks like he dropped down the ranks after the restart.

Even so, that return is very good, given where we ended up.

Well, I mean, sort of. How many teams didn't have a player on that number of assists?

It was ok, but not spectacular. If you look at goal involvements, he was the same as Cantwell. 8, he assisted 7 and scored 1, Cantwell assisted 2 and scored 6. Then you have to take into account that Cantwell wasn't 1st choice corner taker. And that has to be considered as part of the context.

Beckham - for example, according to the Radio times link above, had a career total of 80 assists. How many of those are from dead ball situations? No an issue as such, but considering the number he took, Buendia should have more assists. His corner taking wasn't great though, so perhaps unsurprising.

Another comparison is Pukki - who got 3 assists.

Honestly, as I have said before, it's not that I don't rate Buendia, but there is this sort of running myth that he is this amazing player, the new Maradona/Messi, the best player we have ever had, worth double the money we sold him for, he did everything all of the time, he ALWAYS tracked back, he ALWAYS fought hard... and it's just so incredibly wrong. He was good for us, yes, great? No, certainly no. And his best, as we have since found out, was because he was earning a move elsewhere.

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To be fair, getting that number of assists in a team that scored less than 30 league goals that season is impressive going, and especially in the light of a team that was so heavily compromised due to a lack of centre-halves. I think the figure on its own is a little bit shorn of context.

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16 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

To be fair, getting that number of assists in a team that scored less than 30 league goals that season is impressive going, and especially in the light of a team that was so heavily compromised due to a lack of centre-halves. I think the figure on its own is a little bit shorn of context.

A little... but I don't think it is anything to suggest "greatness" or "legend" status. And it's not like we didn't have possession either. In many games we'd often dominate it or come close to it. The way you put it, it almost sounds like we were defending more than attacking and so Buendia didn't get so much of the ball to do much with. But that isn't entirely accurate either.

As I said, he's a good player, no doubt - just that many fans are guilty of overblowing just how good he was for us, I think mainly because of his success last season, rather than the two prior to it. As I have said before - if he can continue that on into this season and get more assists and goals in the premier league, then he will be becoming "great". As I have also said, we have had players that play in a similar position who have been more successful with us and after us etc, so I can't subscribe to the furore about him being the best player we have ever had at the club - sorry. 

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1 hour ago, chicken said:

A little... but I don't think it is anything to suggest "greatness" or "legend" status. And it's not like we didn't have possession either. In many games we'd often dominate it or come close to it. The way you put it, it almost sounds like we were defending more than attacking and so Buendia didn't get so much of the ball to do much with. But that isn't entirely accurate either.

As I said, he's a good player, no doubt - just that many fans are guilty of overblowing just how good he was for us, I think mainly because of his success last season, rather than the two prior to it. As I have said before - if he can continue that on into this season and get more assists and goals in the premier league, then he will be becoming "great". As I have also said, we have had players that play in a similar position who have been more successful with us and after us etc, so I can't subscribe to the furore about him being the best player we have ever had at the club - sorry. 

Pretty much this, there are some posters on here who really really want Buendia to be considered an all time great, perhaps as a stick to beat the club with. As you say he is a good player, but there wasn't really any interest from anyone apart from Villa where is seen as a downgrade on Grealish. At his age he should be at his peak, and quite possibly is, but his peak would seem to be an important player at a mid-ranking Prem club. Not Champions League, not an international regular.

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I get that fans want to turn the page now that the player has left, but let’s not understate how important he was to us. What was our win rate without him in the team?

I’ve seen very few players with his creative ability playing for us, certainly since the golden years of the early 90s. Maddison is probably the only one who comes close, but he’s a different sort of player. Don’t get me wrong - Emi wasn’t perfect. His dead balls were generally poor, but his ability to beat players and put in a killer pass was extremely good, as was his workrate. Pukki was massively dependent on that service.

That said, I’d like nothing more than Buendia to have a shocking season with Villa and get relegated, and Tzolis /Rashica/Sargent turn out to be inspired signings who keep us up.

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27 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

I get that fans want to turn the page now that the player has left, but let’s not understate how important he was to us. What was our win rate without him in the team?

I’ve seen very few players with his creative ability playing for us, certainly since the golden years of the early 90s. Maddison is probably the only one who comes close, but he’s a different sort of player. Don’t get me wrong - Emi wasn’t perfect. His dead balls were generally poor, but his ability to beat players and put in a killer pass was extremely good, as was his workrate. Pukki was massively dependent on that service.

That said, I’d like nothing more than Buendia to have a shocking season with Villa and get relegated, and Tzolis /Rashica/Sargent turn out to be inspired signings who keep us up.

Sounds like you're  starting to  get over it. Really, it'll be fine. I agree that he was  immensely important  for us, but the three players you named above bring us different options and all look to have potential  to develop.....the king is dead,  long live the three Princes. 

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