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Jim Smith

I’ve mentioned it during both our games so far so forgive me

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29 minutes ago, ricardo said:

I was rather hoping that we would finally begin a Premier League season having addressed the glaring weakness that was obvious to everybody upon all of our recent promotions.The signings we have made look decent enough on paper to ensure another promotion run next season but you can't  play men against boys in this league and if you fail consistantly to lock your back door there is only one outcome.

It’s staggering. I’m sorry but this position should have been the absolute number one priority. We are trying to do it on the cheap with a loan to buy deal which is why we are having to wait and likely to be scrambling around in the last week of the window. That’s not what you do with your priority transfer positions. 

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You don’t need to be hulking brutes to tackle and foul. It’s a mentality.

Every time we turned over the ball yesterday in a half decent position we got fouled, by any city player. We should be doing the same.

You try and tackle cleanly but if that fails you take the foul. I don’t like it but the alternative puts us at a major disadvantage.

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30 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

My goodness this thread is approaching a proper reasoned debate where fans can express some concerns about our performances ! 
Keep it up folks !!! I find this very therapeutic…

I hate to contradict you GPB 😉, but I don't think that there is much of  debate at all.

We all think that we need a ball-winning/ defensive midfielder and to be more cynical when we lose possession. Pink 'Un message board unanimity - who'd have thought it? 😃

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I think there's a big difference between disruptive/clever fouls and bookable offences, both Liverpool and Man City are brilliant at the former yet are bottom of the league for yellow cards and have been for the last 2/3 years. Not sure who in either of those two teams can be described as 'physical' so I don't see Norwich are necessarily being 'out-muscled' more they're just being out-thought by cleverer and more experienced players.

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1 minute ago, DraytonBoy said:

I think there's a big difference between disruptive/clever fouls and bookable offences, both Liverpool and Man City are brilliant at the former yet are bottom of the league for yellow cards and have been for the last 2/3 years. Not sure who in either of those two teams can be described as 'physical' so I don't see Norwich are necessarily being 'out-muscled' more they're just being out-thought by cleverer and more experienced players.

It’s also where you try and do it on the pitch. I appreciate it’s easier as they are attacking more but they try and win the ball back (or stop the counter) as quickly as possible by whatever means. If you do it high enough up the pitch then you are unlikely to be booked. There was a classic example yesterday with Cantwell in the second half. We need to try and win the ball back when we lose it not just drop off and let teams play. 

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23 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

It’s staggering. I’m sorry but this position should have been the absolute number one priority. We are trying to do it on the cheap with a loan to buy deal which is why we are having to wait and likely to be scrambling around in the last week of the window. That’s not what you do with your priority transfer positions. 

That's why this transfer window can only be judged as a success if we get the defensive additions Farke has said he needs.

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You don’t have to go far to find a supporter that will say yesterday’s performance wasn’t acceptable. The thing is, a 5-0 defeat was always a distinct possibility however well we played, it - and worse - will happen to others there this season, but it is the manner that it happened which is the issue. And just to rub it in, Citeh even scored more goals than they had shots on target.

We need to quickly learn a nasty/harder streak, tackling opposition players in midfield, breaking up their play, and to be less predictable in possession.  It’s not just about pretty passing and technical ability, we need to (re)learn the cynical side.  If we can all see this, I’m pretty sure it is something those closer to the club are aware of and will know they need to work on. 

The rest of the transfer window is very important - so far it has been ok, but far too weighted to the attacking end of the pitch (not that we have yet seen a lot of evidence) when we have known all along that the cb/cdm roles were two of the most crucial roles to get sorted. 

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3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

For banging on about it but….

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49371002

 

so far both our opponents have out fouled us significantly in the two games despite being the supposedly better sides. Our 3 midfielder have made a combined total of 13 tackles in 2 games.  This is nowhere near good enough. 

I understand what you are saying and I agree that we need to be more physical and perhaps a bit more "professional". The article is about Man City and I would argue they can afford to take the risk of their approach given the huge strength in depth they have. According to Transfermarket their bench yesterday was worth north of £150m, De Bruyne and Foden (another £160M+) were not even in the squad, so the risk of a red card/suspension or an injury from over stretching isn't as significant to them as it could be to us...............

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To foul someone you actually have to get near them, whichwe have barely done the last two games. I'd point out that most of our team either had Covid, had to isolate, are just back from long-term injuries, are newbies or had sod all preseason. I'm also interested in Webber's comments about avoiding injuries. Have we significantly turned down training intensity this season? Whatever, we really haven't been at the races yet but losing to the top two sides is obviously no disaster and i expect significant improvement.  I also expect Sargent will be starting soon so we at least have a bit of physicality up top.

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4 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Just to be clear I don’t think running around fouling constantly is the answer. Just that the occasional cynical/tactical foul is needed to keep these teams at bay.

the overriding issue is the lack of physicality/athleticism in the middle of the park and the fact we are not making or even attempting enough tackles.

The perfect example of a tactical/cynical foul being the euro final when Saka was away at the end of 90 minutes. I honestly think in a similar situation our team would let the player get away and score 

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3 hours ago, Mello Yello said:

A cynical shirt tug, a purposeful push or a stand firm blatant block is unlikely to get you sent off.....In many incidents would not even get you a yellow....I'm not advocating that we become dirty rotten scoundrels on the pitch, but we should just adopt the clever craft that other Premiership clubs use in abundance.....Not nice, but when in Rome......

it's a necessary part of the game. every top team, has always had players who knew how to break up attacks, give free kicks away 30/40 yards away from goal. The dark arts have always been mastered by the spainish, italians, argentina's, brazilians, germans etc. The Barca-Madrid games are infamous for their attacking play, but also for the tricks.

Although, when Man City seemed to be camped in our half. It's completely different thing to break up an attack just outside your box. nevertheless, when you lose 5-0, they had double the possession and effectively double the fouls conceded, whilst we only made a few extra tackles (18-14). It strongly suggests not only are we not committing cynical fouls, we generally just standing off, and hope the opposition miss places passes.

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