I’ve mentioned it during both our games so far so forgive me

[Jim Smith 2,317]

For banging on about it but….

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49371002

 

so far both our opponents have out fouled us significantly in the two games despite being the supposedly better sides. Our 3 midfielder have made a combined total of 13 tackles in 2 games.  This is nowhere near good enough. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

This became apparent when we came up last time. I went to the West Ham game (when Zimmerman got kicked) and it was noticeable that we were out muscled all over the pitch. 
The physicality of the Prem is something that isn’t focused on but it’s there in abundance. I suspect that Webber and co are fully aware of this but can’t get the bigger players in. A fierce competitor in midfield is an essential need for this last week of the window. 
12 consecutive losses in the Prem . It’s not great is it? 

[Norfolk Dan 308]

Just read that article. That was the thing I mentioned In the thread for the game. It was just relentless, fouling on any turn over. 

If I was coach, I would instruct players to just run with the ball directly at a Man City player and take the foul and go again and again until you get to the penalty area... 

This league is just not football it's a game of false heroes. 

I will be honest I really don't care for this league, the sooner they have the elite euro league the better. Might even get to playing Sat Wed Sat... And get some momentum...

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

Yes, this is a REAL problem for us and something that is a permanent flaw in the Farke / Webber recruitment model.

We bring in intelligent, nice and articulate footballers who get held off, knocked about and bullied in the top tier.

We need at least some bone crunching giants if we are to stop being everyone's favourite second team and start annoying opposition managers instead because we claw points out of them.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Cantiaci Canary

[Norfolk Dan 308]

Also if you look at the matches we lost last season, it was the likes of Watford that pointed out our weaknesses... 

Big problem to solve this late in the window. it's going to break the bank to get the right one in.... Or right two! 

[CDMullins 436]

Yet we got embarrassed and didn't get a single yellow card.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,400]

I’ve been banging on about this for ages. Last time we were bullied by the bottom sides and outclassed and also bullied by the big boys- our midfield look like men v boys at this level. Hence we needed big physical players in the middle and at the back but instead we signed small quick kids with pace…

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

Although I do think you have a valid point Jim about our foul count in general being less than Liverpool and City in these first two games, I’m not sure how much the need for a ‘tactical’ foul applies in these games. 

For starters, we need to be on the front foot to need to do it, something City and Liverpool always are and we literally never were yesterday. They didn’t hit us with counter attacks, we were just under an immense amount of pressure.

Its not a tactical foul just to hack someone down when we’re the team totally under the cosh, giving a foul away in those situations just puts us more under pressure. Especially as we seem to be defending set pieces as poorly as we were two seasons ago at the minute!

But yes, you would really think the team on the losing end of 0-3 and 0-5 defeats would amass more fouls than the winning side. Yesterday in particular was worryingly feeble and every bit as poor as our post lockdown form of two years ago. 

[sonyc 5,516]

34 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

For banging on about it but….

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49371002

 

so far both our opponents have out fouled us significantly in the two games despite being the supposedly better sides. Our 3 midfielder have made a combined total of 13 tackles in 2 games.  This is nowhere near good enough. 

Spot on Jim. I mentioned this in the aftermath on the match thread. My son and I remarked that every time we had the ball trying to go forward we were actually prevented from playing ....call it cynical or gamesmanship or probably more like pure pressure....we were just not allowed to play. We were squeezed out of the game whenever we tried to get any kind of foothold. Of course Man City have wonderful talent. But they try and make you not even be an opponent.

A few posters have stated that we must impose ourselves more. Rupp isn't that kind and Kenny struggled last time. Gilmour? Lees-Melou? Time will tell.

I'd written off those first two matches mentally anyway but in the run of games up to Wolves (13th game and at the end of November...the point at which so often, the season is framed for many teams) we need to have around 13 points. That would be roughly a third of the season gone and a third of the way to 40 points. So....we have 11 games to get those 13. That is my yardstick 

Our performances against Leicester, Arsenal, Watford, Everton, Burney, Brighton, Leeds, Brentford, Southampton, Wolves (have discounted Chelsea away in this list) will be where we must find ourselves as a team. I will judge at that point rather than get all worked up by these first two.

It's been the depressing start I expected (is it really a machine that determines our fixtures😠?) but we will soon see what we are made of. I am hopeful that if we do lose any of these games that at least there are signs that we have either created chances or that we competed.

Edited August 22, 2021 by sonyc

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Gamesmanship = Cheating.....

Personally I give as good as I get....and so should our squad.....

[Jim Smith 2,317]

22 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

Yes, this is a REAL problem for us and something that is a permanent flaw in the Farke / Webber recruitment model.

We bring in intelligent, nice and articulate footballers who get held off, knocked about and bullied in the top tier.

We need at least some bone crunching giants if we are to stop being everyone's favourite second team and start annoying opposition managers instead because we claw points out of them.

They don’t have to be bone crunching necessarily (although I think at least one does need to be) just more cynical. 

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Just to be clear I don’t think running around fouling constantly is the answer. Just that the occasional cynical/tactical foul is needed to keep these teams at bay.

the overriding issue is the lack of physicality/athleticism in the middle of the park and the fact we are not making or even attempting enough tackles.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

It waa seemingly identified by the club that we needed to sign a mych bigger, more physical profile of player to compete this time round. When we were linked with the 6ft 5" pairing of Ajer and Billing I assumed that was the route we were taking.

We've done just about everything but

[WD40 720]

It was evident and noted this was lacking in our double loss to Watford last year - even with Skipp. We need battlers. 

[Mello Yello 2,289]

I mentioned last week against Liverpool when we were awarded a free kick in their half just outside the centre circle......A red player picked up the ball toyed with it for a bit then threw it to another red, who also hand juggled it for a while then flung it to another red who held the ball - then eventually dropped and tapped it a few yards away......All timed so they were then reorganised and were ready for our delivery.....One of our players should have grabbed the ball off the initial juggler so we could progress....Ref looked on nonchalant and did bugga all - and that's what we need to be - more astute and street wise on the pitch.....

[cambridgeshire canary 6,716]

35 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I’ve been banging on about this for ages. Last time we were bullied by the bottom sides and outclassed and also bullied by the big boys- our midfield look like men v boys at this level. Hence we needed big physical players in the middle and at the back but instead we signed small quick kids with pace…

Why Farke has decided that 5ft 6 Gilmour is our new defensive midfielder and is the second coming of Kante is beyond me.. Why yes sticking our shortest player as our midfield defender despite him have never played in that position before joining us and leaving Sorenson out.. Farke might feel like

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Spot on Jim. I mentioned this in the aftermath on the match thread. My son and I remarked that every time we had the ball trying to go forward we were actually prevented from playing ....call it cynical or gamesmanship or probably more like pure pressure....we were just not allowed to play. We were squeezed out of the game whenever we tried to get any kind of foothold. Of course Man City have wonderful talent. But they try and make you not even be an opponent.

A few posters have stated that we must impose ourselves more. Rupp isn't that kind and Kenny struggled last time. Gilmour? Lees-Melou? Time will tell.

I'd written off those first two matches mentally anyway but in the run of games up to Wolves (13th game and at the end of November...the point at which so often, the season is framed for many teams) we need to have around 13 points. That would be roughly a third of the season gone and a third of the way to 40 points. So....we have 11 games to get those 13. That is my yardstick 

Our performances against Leicester, Arsenal, Watford, Everton, Burney, Brighton, Leeds, Brentford, Southampton, Wolves (have discounted Chelsea away in this list) will be where we must find ourselves as a team. I will judge at that point rather than get all worked up by these first two.

It's been the depressing start I expected (is it really a machine that determines our fixtures😠?) but we will soon see what we are made of. I am hopeful that if we do lose any of these games that at least there are signs that we have either created chances or that we competed.

Good post Sonyc.

Disco Dale's points-o-meter spreadsheet has us on a rather optimistic 15 points after the Wolves game. We defo need to be in double figures by then at the very least or the mountain we have to climb is going to be Everest like.

OTBC

[ricardo 7,385]

I was rather hoping that we would finally begin a Premier League season having addressed the glaring weakness that was obvious to everybody upon all of our recent promotions.The signings we have made look decent enough on paper to ensure another promotion run next season but you can't  play men against boys in this league and if you fail consistantly to lock your back door there is only one outcome.

[Badger 2,405]

1 hour ago, Jim Smith said:

For banging on about it but….

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/49371002

 

so far both our opponents have out fouled us significantly in the two games despite being the supposedly better sides. Our 3 midfielder have made a combined total of 13 tackles in 2 games.  This is nowhere near good enough. 

Have to agree with you on this Jim. We need to win back more possession in the midfield and to "spoil" more if we can't win it back. This is more than just having a very big defensive midfielder, but a question of approach from the whole side - we need to be more aggressive in our play and at times, a bit more cynical. (TBF Cantwell showed this when pulling down the Liverpool player last week - but he (or someone else) needed to have done it earlier, before they were in range.)

[Cantiaci Canary 557]

20 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

It waa seemingly identified by the club that we needed to sign a mych bigger, more physical profile of player to compete this time round. When we were linked with the 6ft 5" pairing of Ajer and Billing I assumed that was the route we were taking.

We've done just about everything but

And pursuing Normann doesn't seem to tick that box either.

I don't think Farke intends to field a bread and butter DM. He wants 3 box to box types across the middle.

That worries me!

[sonyc 5,516]

16 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

I mentioned last week against Liverpool when we were awarded a free kick in their half just outside the centre circle......A red player picked up the ball toyed with it for a bit then threw it to another red, who also hand juggled it for a while then flung it to another red who held the ball - then eventually dropped and tapped it a few yards away......All timed so they were then reorganised and were ready for our delivery.....One of our players should have grabbed the ball off the initial juggler so we could progress....Ref looked on nonchalant and did bugga all - and that's what we need to be - more astute and street wise on the pitch.....

Agree with you Mello. A Roy Keane type would be great. We are far too nice as a team. 

I recall us playing Inter Milan in our European campaign. If we got a corner, the defenders would push and press our attacking players before the corner was even taken. Sutton after and others expected the ref to give fouls. Yet they were bullied off the ball even without having possession let alone with it. Massive issue for us ahead. I'm unsure if this particular aspect of our game can be found. Do we have this kind of leadership in the team?

[Mello Yello 2,289]

A cynical shirt tug, a purposeful push or a stand firm blatant block is unlikely to get you sent off.....In many incidents would not even get you a yellow....I'm not advocating that we become dirty rotten scoundrels on the pitch, but we should just adopt the clever craft that other Premiership clubs use in abundance.....Not nice, but when in Rome......

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

32 minutes ago, Cantiaci Canary said:

And pursuing Normann doesn't seem to tick that box either.

I don't think Farke intends to field a bread and butter DM. He wants 3 box to box types across the middle.

That worries me!

Indeed...most if not every other club sees the importance..even the top clubs . Even Man City felt the need to play Rodri at home to us.

Rodri McTominay Kante Fabinho Ndidi Rice Hojberg Bissouma Douglas Luiz Partey Allan Phillips ,whoever it maybe.

We needed a Skipp to make the team function even in a league we walked last season...now seemingly dont think we need one in the premier league

Edited August 22, 2021 by GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

My goodness this thread is approaching a proper reasoned debate where fans can express some concerns about our performances ! 
Keep it up folks !!! I find this very therapeutic…

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

2 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

A cynical shirt tug, a purposeful push or a stand firm blatant block is unlikely to get you sent off.....In many incidents would not even get you a yellow....I'm not advocating that we become dirty rotten scoundrels on the pitch, but we should just adopt the clever craft that other Premiership clubs use in abundance.....Not nice, but when in Rome......

The pundits call this “game management” . It seems miles away from our psyche. 
Most teams will rotate the fouls . It’s been going on for years - Emi was a target last time we were up.  He could be fouled 10 times by 6-7 different players. 

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

2 minutes ago, Badger said:

Have to agree with you on this Jim. We need to win back more possession in the midfield and to "spoil" more if we can't win it back. This is more than just having a very big defensive midfielder, but a question of approach from the whole side - we need to be more aggressive in our play and at times, a bit more cynical. (TBF Cantwell showed this when pulling down the Liverpool player last week - but he (or someone else) needed to have done it earlier, before they were in range.)

One of the Norwich games I enjoyed the most in recent years was the 1-0 win against Sheffield Utd at their place (2017?). We were complete b*stards. Total sh1thousery of the type Norwich never, ever do. It was glorious to watch...and necessary. Sometimes you need to be b*stards to beat b*stards. So Farke knows how to play dirty.

OTBC

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

7 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

My goodness this thread is approaching a proper reasoned debate where fans can express some concerns about our performances ! 
Keep it up folks !!! I find this very therapeutic…

It'll never catch on...😉

OTBC

[Mello Yello 2,289]

Just now, Graham Paddons Beard said:

The pundits call this “game management” . It seems miles away from our psyche. 
Most teams will rotate the fouls . It’s been going on for years - Emi was a target last time we were up.  He could be fouled 10 times by 6-7 different players. 

So true.....Annoyingly for me I do tend to spend a little too much time watching the cynical gamesmanship and as you quite rightly say 'game management' that my focus on the game is more than momentarily distracted.....Senior pro Milner last week displayed last week that he has it down to a distinct art......

[Mello Yello 2,289]

2 minutes ago, Disco Dales Jockstrap said:

It'll never catch on...😉

OTBC

Iz u a Brexiteer or Remainer?....

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

1 minute ago, Mello Yello said:

Iz u a Brexiteer or Remainer?....

🤐

OTBC