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Midlands Yellow

What went wrong today exactly

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We play out from the back and got eviscerated because of it. The reality is that we will get destroyed by very good sides playing like that.

The question is if we can use it successfully against the mid-table and the teams near the bottom of the league. 

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We played one of the top teams in the world at their place. They are in a different league within a league we barely belong in 

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51 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Yes. Sometimes we need to get ugly.

Trouble is we have bought no players with Premier league experience, only youngsters with a sell on potential who need games to get up to speed, problem is by the time they do we could be 15 points behind , we have ten days left to put things right, the trouble is £10 million don’t buy a left leg and city want to Nick everyone they buy which is great if it works, but by trying to do things on the cheap could come home to bite us again, and the most loyal supporters have been stitched up again, lots of teams will lose to Liverpool and Man City but they will no doubt put up more of a fight and be more aggressive than we have been, why is it most supporters can see we need an tough midfielder toget in opponents faces,  but city tried to steal the Bournemouth midfielder rather than pay a few million more Webber knows him so you would think he would go the extra mile because the rewards for staying in the league are more than a few million,  it’s going to be along hard season, if action is not forthcoming

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Farke said we'd focused on cutting out the balls behind the full backs but clearly the players didn't action it. Jesus is hardly the worlds deadliest right winger but ended the game with 3 assists. Brandon Williams may well be in the first team best soon!

I do question why we didn't play a different format after the game against Liverpool with 5 at the back but hey ho

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27 minutes ago, AJ said:

Farke said we'd focused on cutting out the balls behind the full backs but clearly the players didn't action it. Jesus is hardly the worlds deadliest right winger but ended the game with 3 assists. Brandon Williams may well be in the first team best soon!

I do question why we didn't play a different format after the game against Liverpool with 5 at the back but hey ho

AJ, watching the highlights on MoTD, it appeared that we did play all 10 outfield players at the back and that still wasn't enough! (I think the experiment of packing the back with all the team instead of getting proper defensive reinforcements is successful!!)

Also, if those were the highlights of the match, then without wishing to cast aspersions, we must have been absolutely dire, because they only showed one instance of Norwich in possession and that was just after their 3rd goal,

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7 minutes ago, ABC (A Basingstoke Canary) said:

AJ, watching the highlights on MoTD, it appeared that we did play all 10 outfield players at the back and that still wasn't enough! (I think the experiment of packing the back with all the team instead of getting proper defensive reinforcements is successful!!)

Also, if those were the highlights of the match, then without wishing to cast aspersions, we must have been absolutely dire, because they only showed one instance of Norwich in possession and that was just after their 3rd goal,

I watched the match, it was that dire. 

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Strangely, I'm not too bothered about the goals that were conceded. They were generally well worked and City will score loads of goals like that this season.

What's more concerning is that we are seeing many similarities from our relegation season:

- insisting to play it out from the back, even when it's clearly not working (in fact it actually hinders us)

- awful defending from corners

- lack of phyaicality in midfield

- predictable attack

- the sense that the opposition will score if they move up a gear

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It'd be interesting to see which other teams Liverpool & Man City beat convincingly this season.
I'd suggest most of them outside the top 6.

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What went wrong simple really we are nowhere near good enough for this league and don’t have the money to make us better . Truth is even the other relegation strugglers see us as an easy three points and we rarely prove them wrong .

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9 hours ago, K Lo said:

It'd be interesting to see which other teams Liverpool & Man City beat convincingly this season.
I'd suggest most of them outside the top 6.

Apart from Leicester and Spurs, who have already beaten them?

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Farke said on match of the day that they scored four identical goals, I suspect that another manager may have done about stopping them repeating them

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First and foremost, Man City have the ability to buy our entire club as a training complex- we aren't supposed to beat a team of this magnitude.

Secondly, I think this was a bit of a wake-up call for a couple of our players; Dimi in particular I would say got a harsh reminder that he is no longer playing in the Greek Super League. There is a learning curve and it's a steep one, but as DF said in his post-match, it is probably better to have this lesson in game 2 in away at Citeh as much as anywhere else.

As mentioned above, Dimi got caught out a bit but I also feel Rupp, Cantwell and Pukki were passengers for the most part- you can't get away with carrying 3-4 off days at this level. The amount we got caught in possession and turned over was staggering, albeit against a side who are known for their excellent press. Finally, as I've seen mentioned elsewhere on the forum, both games so far have seen the opposition make significantly more fouls than we did- I'm all for trying to play the game properly, but there is a reason these top sides commit fouls like they do and we need to wise up.

A very sobering day for us. Let's hope Bournemouth get a drubbing in the week to let out some of these frustrations.

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Posted (edited)

We had nobody with an attacking mindset, we had nobody with the audacity to try the unauthodox, we had nobody making forward runs, we had nobody with the vision to pick a pass, we had nobody bursting into the box to get on the end of crosses, even the ones that never came.

He was busy elsewhere, playing for Villa

Edited by Making Plans
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1 hour ago, CDMullins said:

Apart from Leicester and Spurs, who have already beaten them?

 

Did you read all of my post ?

11 hours ago, K Lo said:

It'd be interesting to see which other teams Liverpool & Man City beat convincingly this season.
I'd suggest most of them **outside the top 6.**

"Most" isn't "All"
Leicester finished 5th last year.
Spurs 7th. They finished 6th & 4th the two previous years.

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18 hours ago, Yellow and Green said:

Strangely, I'm not too bothered about the goals that were conceded. They were generally well worked and City will score loads of goals like that this season.

What's more concerning is that we are seeing many similarities from our relegation season:

- insisting to play it out from the back, even when it's clearly not working (in fact it actually hinders us)

- awful defending from corners

- lack of phyaicality in midfield

- predictable attack

- the sense that the opposition will score if they move up a gear

And this is exactly why The Chumpionship is the ceiling of Farke's ability as a manager. He fails to learn and refuses to be proactive in changing team shape / tactics / personnel during a game. He has no Plan B (who many times has this been discussed!) so we will finish where we will predictably deserve to finish! Never mind - in Cook world he has a job for life so better get used to it.

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On 21/08/2021 at 10:44, Midlands Yellow said:

Opposition just too good, poor tactics or a combination of things? Humour by the way is allowed when offering answers. 

Well it would help if we had our defensive midfielder in the house already, that and another center back so we could have played three there and not been so exposed to counter attacks. Other than that we played Man City away and what exactly did you expect?

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The lack of a number 10 and playing  3 deep midfielders looks to me like it invites pressure and we can't get out 

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12 hours ago, K Lo said:

 

Did you read all of my post ?

"Most" isn't "All"
Leicester finished 5th last year.
Spurs 7th. They finished 6th & 4th the two previous years.

You decide which one, your intimating that Man City will flog other sides who aren't in the top6,

So which do you want Spurs or Leicester.

Man City beaten twice, along came lil' old Norwich, usual result.

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45 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

You decide which one, your intimating that Man City will flog other sides who aren't in the top6,

So which do you want Spurs or Leicester.

Man City beaten twice, along came lil' old Norwich, usual result.

I hear you. But let’s look at it from a betting point of view and trends. 

We haven’t beaten Liverpool anywhere since 1994. I was still at school. We have beaten Man City away twice since 1964, one in a game that many of our fans decided they were on the beach. 

Now, we should always go into every game looking to get SOMETHING, but - and I say this with a big part of me thinking “balls to trends” - if you were a betting man, the likelihood of us getting zilch points from these two games was extremely high. 
 

Being disappointed is natural. I am. But I’m not having the whole didn’t try, no fight, no passion rhetoric.

These things are entirely subjective and if anyone honestly believes that any of our players stepped over the line and phoned it in, they’re mistaken. 

The truth is, as hard as it is to accept, that Manchester City are - man for man - better than us in every position. What’s even harder to accept is that if they played a second eleven, the likelihood is that it’s still true. They brought Raheem Sterling on as a substitute. 

I agree with Chris and others that we should never expect or just accept a hiding, but, seriously, if we turned in a no show, no try effort against Manchester City, we’d have conceded way more than five. Way more. It’s horribly disappointing but if anyone is telling me that they honestly expected anything better than zero points from our games against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, United…I’ll show you a liar. 

When we beat City at home two seasons ago, they were bonus points. 

We have many fights to come, any point we get off the “elite” is a bonus. It’s the scrappy wins against our peers that will form the base and as yet we don’t have a measure on that. 

We could finish on zero points and with a -152 goal difference, but we won’t. All we can do is support. 

It is always thus. 
 


 

 

 

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The only thing that I would add is that playing 5 at the back would have reduced the amount of space available for Jesus (or Mahrez) to exploit. 

Man City flood top end of the pitch and their wingers stretch the opposition defence as much as possible in order to create space. By playing four at the back, the full back has two options:

1) Keep tight to the CB, which will leave the winger in acres of space (which happened for the first goal).

2) Man mark the winger, which exposes the full back in a 1 vs 1 situation (which happened for their last goal).

In both scenarios, especially vs City, the full back has to be pretty much faultless. Their positioning and body position have to be on point and, after 90 minutes of near constant city pressure, their sublime passing / movement proved too much.

I actually blame Farke more than DG / BM, on this occasion.

 

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9 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

And this is exactly why The Chumpionship is the ceiling of Farke's ability as a manager. He fails to learn and refuses to be proactive in changing team shape / tactics / personnel during a game. He has no Plan B (who many times has this been discussed!) so we will finish where we will predictably deserve to finish! Never mind - in Cook world he has a job for life so better get used to it.

Whilst I don’t agree with the point overall, the fact he now has multiple options on the bench which we didn’t have before to change tactics mid game was very frustrating. Fair play to him he did change things a bit at half time (although that seemed rather personnel rather than tactics) and we had our best spell then before going on to conceded another 3. It was interesting to hear his comments after the game, openly having a go at the players, specifically Dimi and then Bali for failing to deal with well drilled training plays. 

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7 minutes ago, AJ said:

Whilst I don’t agree with the point overall, the fact he now has multiple options on the bench which we didn’t have before to change tactics mid game was very frustrating. Fair play to him he did change things a bit at half time (although that seemed rather personnel rather than tactics) and we had our best spell then before going on to conceded another 3. It was interesting to hear his comments after the game, openly having a go at the players, specifically Dimi and then Bali for failing to deal with well drilled training plays. 

I agree and I feel like he's thrown them under the bus a bit here. When two players are making the same mistakes then you may need to look at the system, rather than individuals. 

The whole team looked poor and he needs to take a bit more responsibility for the way we approached the game. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I hear you. But let’s look at it from a betting point of view and trends. 

We haven’t beaten Liverpool anywhere since 1994. I was still at school. We have beaten Man City away twice since 1964, one in a game that many of our fans decided they were on the beach. 

Now, we should always go into every game looking to get SOMETHING, but - and I say this with a big part of me thinking “balls to trends” - if you were a betting man, the likelihood of us getting zilch points from these two games was extremely high. 
 

Being disappointed is natural. I am. But I’m not having the whole didn’t try, no fight, no passion rhetoric.

These things are entirely subjective and if anyone honestly believes that any of our players stepped over the line and phoned it in, they’re mistaken. 

The truth is, as hard as it is to accept, that Manchester City are - man for man - better than us in every position. What’s even harder to accept is that if they played a second eleven, the likelihood is that it’s still true. They brought Raheem Sterling on as a substitute. 

I agree with Chris and others that we should never expect or just accept a hiding, but, seriously, if we turned in a no show, no try effort against Manchester City, we’d have conceded way more than five. Way more. It’s horribly disappointing but if anyone is telling me that they honestly expected anything better than zero points from our games against Liverpool, City, Chelsea, United…I’ll show you a liar. 

When we beat City at home two seasons ago, they were bonus points. 

We have many fights to come, any point we get off the “elite” is a bonus. It’s the scrappy wins against our peers that will form the base and as yet we don’t have a measure on that. 

We could finish on zero points and with a -152 goal difference, but we won’t. All we can do is support. 

It is always thus. 
 


 

 

 

Morning Dunc,

Im not a stats/trends man, I don't believe that something is more or less likely to happen because it has/hasn't for 'x' amount of time.

Of course I expected zero points from our first two games, I hoped for some solidarity and maybe a goal or two or at least the notion that we'd learnt from our last attempt in the Premier League.

But it's all just a too predictable, familiar and accepted.

Man City were wounded, beaten twice already, along came Norwich.

One shot at goal, not a single booking, not a single player of ours were that embarrassed or frustrated that they left something on a Man City player.

It's just all so nicey, nice.

We we're 'plucky', 'had a go', 'looked well' for periods against Liverpool but again all too predictable.

Quietly really excited by Sargent, Rasicha and Tzolis.

But it's clear to me we have two gaping holes at centre back and no defensive midfielders to protect them.

Edited by CDMullins

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Undoubtedly it was a bad day at the office.

On a more positive note however now is the best time for us to have this experience.

The game wasn't one we expected to win and our weaknesses were exposed and not just those related to individual poor performances.

We did well in the Liverpool game without getting a result but here we got what we deserved. 

Hopefully this will give the manager and players the opportunity to respond in  positive way.  

It's a long season and we have a long way to go. 

 

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2 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Morning Dunc,

Im not a stats/trends man, I don't believe that something is more or less likely to happen because it has/hasn't for 'x' amount of time.

Of course I expected zero points from our first two games.

But it's all just a too predictable, familiar and accepted.

Man City were wounded, beaten twice already, along came Norwich.

One shot at goal, not a single booking, not a single player of ours were that embarrassed or frustrated that they left something on a Man City player.

It's just all so nicey, nice.

We we're 'plucky', 'had a go', 'looked well' for periods against Liverpool but again all too predictable.

Quietly really excited by Sargent, Rasicha and Tzolis.

But it's clear to me we have two gaping holes at centre back and no defensive midfielders to protect them.

As I said, I agree. 

Every game is an opportunity but our record, particularly at Man City, is woeful. I don't have an explanation for it but I'll say that the chances of us winning there are far less now than probably at any point since 1964! 

I agree about the midfield too. That will surely be addressed this week and, in all (harsh) reality, the fact that we were always likely to be 0-0-2 has perhaps bought them enough time to get a preferred option over the line. If that doesn't transpire, it will look like a negligent oversight. Not sure about centre half, an addition would be great but whether we bring someone in as a starter or as cover to push Zimmerman down to fifth choice remains to be seen.

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14 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

And this is exactly why The Chumpionship is the ceiling of Farke's ability as a manager. He fails to learn and refuses to be proactive in changing team shape / tactics / personnel during a game. He has no Plan B (who many times has this been discussed!) so we will finish where we will predictably deserve to finish! Never mind - in Cook world he has a job for life so better get used to it.

He refuses to change personnel during a game????????????

I guess you didn't actually watch the game on Saturday. If you did you'd have seen that he made 2 substitutions at half time!!!

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