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****The Official Lapps Match Thread v Liverpool *****

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1 minute ago, Van wink said:

Anybody got a sore throat yet, or a bit of a cough?

My throat is a bit sore but hopefully just a reaction to the shouting.

Distinct lack of masks in the upper barclay concourse.

Utter shambles at the start - not all the turnstyles were open, huge queues to get in.

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31 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

Can't agree with you either. Best chance of the match came after the subs and Idah brought a physical edge.

I think we can be disappointed with elements of all three goals but I can't fault the effort of the team. All the new signings looked good. If we can put that much into other games against lesser teams, we might just be ok this time around.

OTBC

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13 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

My throat is a bit sore but hopefully just a reaction to the shouting.

Distinct lack of masks in the upper barclay concourse.

Utter shambles at the start - not all the turnstyles were open, huge queues to get in.

Yeh saw that as I walked passed, not seen it before. No probs getting into the City Stand, not when I arrived anyway

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51 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

Really? Sargent was superb and Idah looked better than a tired Pukki. Last ten minutes was one of our better periods.

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2 hours ago, Ward 3 said:

We're playing a title contender and champions league contenders, 3 down at home. We've had a messed up pre season and already our own fans are wetting pants and have us to go down. Jesus. People say we don't change on the pitch. And majority of you don't change either. 

no hyperbole either way for me... just that we'll need to be better. The big tests will be how ruthless we can be against the sides we'll be challenging with around us and then we hope we catch one of the big boys on a bad day for a few scrappy points

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Plenty of pluses and minuses today. We certainly matched them early doors and could even say we had to best of it. Sadly the same issues, the goals were sloppy, especially the first 

Cantwell was superb, Max's crossing was poor. 

Impressed with Sargent when he came on. 

3 was harsh, but can't say they didn't outclass us in the 2nd half. 

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I do wonder if we'll consider Sargent over Pukki at all with maybe Pukki getting his turn off the bench? Sargent looks like a guy that would work wonderfully in a 4-2-3-1 system like Bamford does for Leeds

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They have a world class coach, world class players and if I think about their key players they had a proper pre-season. We have had a really tricky three weeks. We had players either on the pitch or coming on who didn’t have a proper pre-season. I can only say I have compliments for that performance.  farke seemed happy enough 

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2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

Sorry, but you’re definitely outvoted on this one, there’s no way we were worse off swapping Pukki for Idah. I thought Rashica showed real potential *in his first appearance* so he was unlucky to go off but Sargent offered something too - wasn’t his first touch to put an attack down Liverpool’s right out of play? I’d be tempted to play Rashica and Sargent together.

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I had already thought Aarons was a bit poor for their second goal the way he just ambled back when he potentially could've caught up with Firmino, but watching it on MOTD it was actually **** poor and ever worse than I thought.

I don't think he could've got back in time to stop Firmino laying it off in the build up, but after doing so he then works his way into the box totally free for an easy tap in, had Aarons bothered to chase back he would've quite comfortably made it to our 6 yard box to put an interception / challenge in. Sure Farke would've given him a bollucking for that after the game!

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11 minutes ago, Jsim1986 said:

Fu*k Shearer talks utter rubbish

Thought he was pretty accurate about us to be honest 

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14 minutes ago, Jsim1986 said:

Fu*k Shearer talks utter rubbish

Sorry mate but in my view the punditry tonight on MOTD has been a huge improvement.  I sense they've been given a bit of a bollocking.  Shearer's analysis I thought was spot on and also quite positive for us.  It was pointing out the importance of getting back into shape (or god help me, into formation)  quickly, which is a not a talent issue but a coaching / work issue.  If the team learns that lesson then we can improve and hold our own.  Over to Farke et al.

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26 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

I had already thought Aarons was a bit poor for their second goal the way he just ambled back when he potentially could've caught up with Firmino, but watching it on MOTD it was actually **** poor and ever worse than I thought.

I don't think he could've got back in time to stop Firmino laying it off in the build up, but after doing so he then works his way into the box totally free for an easy tap in, had Aarons bothered to chase back he would've quite comfortably made it to our 6 yard box to put an interception / challenge in. Sure Farke would've given him a bollucking for that after the game!

Spot on. That’s simply not good enough at this level.

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3 hours ago, interwebme said:

It's not exactly what he did wrong but more a question of what did he do right? 

He just didn't seem to offer much whereas Gilmour and PLM did in terms of definsive screening and progressive passing. 

I watched the game and I didn’t see him do a lot wrong, including his defensive work, so I disagree personally. 

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I was feeling pretty negative at the game thinking here we go again and its going to be a long season. But on reflection and watching the highlights back I think it was mainly fatigue and lack of sharpness that let us down.

There were encouraging signs and we are definitely stronger than two seasons ago.

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47 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Sorry mate but in my view the punditry tonight on MOTD has been a huge improvement.  I sense they've been given a bit of a bollocking.  Shearer's analysis I thought was spot on and also quite positive for us.  It was pointing out the importance of getting back into shape (or god help me, into formation)  quickly, which is a not a talent issue but a coaching / work issue.  If the team learns that lesson then we can improve and hold our own.  Over to Farke et al.

That's fair , and understand your pov. But did you see the palace review after ? It's like we are crap and they will be ok after Patrick having time 🤣

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56 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Thought he was pretty accurate about us to be honest 

We have had 2 weeks of no pre season. Playing Liverpool was best time it could have happened

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1 hour ago, Nuff Said said:

Sorry, but you’re definitely outvoted on this one, there’s no way we were worse off swapping Pukki for Idah. I thought Rashica showed real potential *in his first appearance* so he was unlucky to go off but Sargent offered something too - wasn’t his first touch to put an attack down Liverpool’s right out of play? I’d be tempted to play Rashica and Sargent together.

Quite clearly outvoted!

I think it's a bit easier to look better when Liverpool had decided they were happy at 3-0 and were ready to tuck in, so to speak. I liked Rashica, I thought first half Pukki was pretty sharp, and he looked our only real chance of scoring (the Cantwell ball over, a couple of Max attempts, Pukki's flick to put Rashica away etc).

We might have looked a little more creative but I thought our shape was worse after the subs and it was also at a point where we didn't have the same level of threat from Liverpool.

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What a shi*bag day – and family visitors just before KO meant couldn’t even share in the first-day misery at the time or now, as impossible to focus on the tv action. So envy those at the stadium, even in defeat. But great that proper football’s back and now looking forward to beating Man City again 😇

Sleep well all. OTBC.

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Having chewed on it overnight, I'm going to say the game was "mixed". A few things of concern, but definitely a fair bit to be encouraged by. So here's my good, bad and ugly.

GOOD
1. BACK AT CARROW ROAD - Great to be back, blah blah etc etc. All been said to death already.

2. NEWBIES - I thought to a man, all the new players who participated in the game gave us cause to be optimistic. Rashica's runs and dribbling had both Liverpool full backs scrambling at times. I noted by the end of the first half, Liverpool were having Virgil go over to assist whenever he got the ball. Gilmour did well in a position clearly not his best, picking out the sort of passes at times that a lad of his age and stature should not be able to make, let alone often when being pressed by someone like Mo Salah or Sadio Mane. Pierre Lees-Melou started slowly in my view, but by the end of the game was key to what was going on. Josh Sargent did good things in his brief cameo - I thought he looked strong, composed and worked hard. 

3. FULL BACKS - Dimi and Aarons were faultless. Both played so well up and down that flank. Aarons looks like a proper Premier League player now and had the beating of the Liverpool wings. Dimi was equally as good. Yes, his defensive ability is sometimes suspect (as Archant has seemingly taken to pointing out every time he's mentioned) but his hard work, his attacking prowess, his passing were all splendid. 

4. THOSE FIRST 30 MINUTES - We kept possession, dictated tempo, prodded and thrusted around Liverpool and made it very hard work for them. For me, if an 80% fit Norwich City can do this against a side which is going to be in that top 4 this season, then that is encouraging. 

BAD

1. GOALS - Some sloppy defending leading to the goals. Again, I don't blame the players for this, I think their fitness levels were understandably not at the place they should be. I would like to see a third central defender brought in to really push Hanley and Gibson this season. I think Zimmermann, as colossal as he has been at times since joining, and Andy Omobamodiele, who I think will be a Premier League player in a year or twos time, can't quite reach their levels. 

2. PHYSICALITY IN MIDFIELD - As encouraging as the midfield were (I saw a lot of criticism of Rupp, which I thought was unfair as he was ok, not great, just ok) I think we lack either a proper box to box midfielder who can lend a bit of strength and muscle to Billy Gilmour and contribute offensively too or a proper, good number six. Now I get what Farke is trying to do with this system. Gilmour with his flair and range of passing is sitting to receive the ball on the counter quickly and set off our speedy front players. For that reason, maybe we need that box to box midfielder rather than a defensive midfielder, just someone who can drop back to help Gilmour out. 

3. TIRING - Look, I went into this game thinking we were going to lose, and thought a good result would be to lose by a goal or two. Three - nil I thought flattered Liverpool, who although clearly very, very good I think are defensively frail. But this isn't about Liverpool. One of my reasons for thinking that is our interrupted pre-season. By the 65th minute, I thought we had several players who looked particularly tired. That's hardly a surprise given the circumstances, but it's something we do need to sort out. We should be grateful that the fixture list has given us these difficult ties that even a 100% fit NCFC would have struggled against as it would have been devastating to have to play sides we could beat. 

UGLY

LIVERPOOL FANS - I saw a group of them pour off a bus in a layby near Morrisons all swigging alcohol, start a chant, try to provoke a fight between them and a group of Norwich fans before continuing to stagger towards Carrow Road, being abusive to Norwich fans as they went. Followed up by the homophobic chanting inside the stadium. Having been to Anfield two or three times, I've never been left impressed by them. Classless fans for a classy club.

MY MOTM

Tough one. Not sure how the official MOTM ended up as Todd, thought he was good, but others better. I thought Rashica's first half performance was superb, but died off in the second as he tired. I thought Gilmour was decent throughout. You'd probably have a good argument for Aarons to. But I'd probably give it to Dimi, who I thought made his mistakes, but looked really good as an offensive force throughout coming forward, had that shot on goal and was an absolute thorn in the side of Liverpool for the entire game. 

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9 hours ago, Jsim1986 said:

That's fair , and understand your pov. But did you see the palace review after ? It's like we are crap and they will be ok after Patrick having time 🤣

Yeah, I think they used all the best punditry on us!

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4 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Having chewed on it overnight, I'm going to say the game was "mixed". A few things of concern, but definitely a fair bit to be encouraged by. So here's my good, bad and ugly.

GOOD
1. BACK AT CARROW ROAD - Great to be back, blah blah etc etc. All been said to death already.

2. NEWBIES - I thought to a man, all the new players who participated in the game gave us cause to be optimistic. Rashica's runs and dribbling had both Liverpool full backs scrambling at times. I noted by the end of the first half, Liverpool were having Virgil go over to assist whenever he got the ball. Gilmour did well in a position clearly not his best, picking out the sort of passes at times that a lad of his age and stature should not be able to make, let alone often when being pressed by someone like Mo Salah or Sadio Mane. Pierre Lees-Melou started slowly in my view, but by the end of the game was key to what was going on. Josh Sargent did good things in his brief cameo - I thought he looked strong, composed and worked hard. 

3. FULL BACKS - Dimi and Aarons were faultless. Both played so well up and down that flank. Aarons looks like a proper Premier League player now and had the beating of the Liverpool wings. Dimi was equally as good. Yes, his defensive ability is sometimes suspect (as Archant has seemingly taken to pointing out every time he's mentioned) but his hard work, his attacking prowess, his passing were all splendid. 

4. THOSE FIRST 30 MINUTES - We kept possession, dictated tempo, prodded and thrusted around Liverpool and made it very hard work for them. For me, if an 80% fit Norwich City can do this against a side which is going to be in that top 4 this season, then that is encouraging. 

BAD

1. GOALS - Some sloppy defending leading to the goals. Again, I don't blame the players for this, I think their fitness levels were understandably not at the place they should be. I would like to see a third central defender brought in to really push Hanley and Gibson this season. I think Zimmermann, as colossal as he has been at times since joining, and Andy Omobamodiele, who I think will be a Premier League player in a year or twos time, can't quite reach their levels. 

2. PHYSICALITY IN MIDFIELD - As encouraging as the midfield were (I saw a lot of criticism of Rupp, which I thought was unfair as he was ok, not great, just ok) I think we lack either a proper box to box midfielder who can lend a bit of strength and muscle to Billy Gilmour and contribute offensively too or a proper, good number six. Now I get what Farke is trying to do with this system. Gilmour with his flair and range of passing is sitting to receive the ball on the counter quickly and set off our speedy front players. For that reason, maybe we need that box to box midfielder rather than a defensive midfielder, just someone who can drop back to help Gilmour out. 

3. TIRING - Look, I went into this game thinking we were going to lose, and thought a good result would be to lose by a goal or two. Three - nil I thought flattered Liverpool, who although clearly very, very good I think are defensively frail. But this isn't about Liverpool. One of my reasons for thinking that is our interrupted pre-season. By the 65th minute, I thought we had several players who looked particularly tired. That's hardly a surprise given the circumstances, but it's something we do need to sort out. We should be grateful that the fixture list has given us these difficult ties that even a 100% fit NCFC would have struggled against as it would have been devastating to have to play sides we could beat. 

UGLY

LIVERPOOL FANS - I saw a group of them pour off a bus in a layby near Morrisons all swigging alcohol, start a chant, try to provoke a fight between them and a group of Norwich fans before continuing to stagger towards Carrow Road, being abusive to Norwich fans as they went. Followed up by the homophobic chanting inside the stadium. Having been to Anfield two or three times, I've never been left impressed by them. Classless fans for a classy club.

MY MOTM

Tough one. Not sure how the official MOTM ended up as Todd, thought he was good, but others better. I thought Rashica's first half performance was superb, but died off in the second as he tired. I thought Gilmour was decent throughout. You'd probably have a good argument for Aarons to. But I'd probably give it to Dimi, who I thought made his mistakes, but looked really good as an offensive force throughout coming forward, had that shot on goal and was an absolute thorn in the side of Liverpool for the entire game. 

Good summary TY. Particularly agree with the unfair criticism of Rupp and Giannoulis as MOTM.

However I did think Aarons was especially poor for the second goal - he didn’t looked arsed about catching up with play at all. Not the first time he’s done that either!

Looking forward to see more of the new signings as I thought all of them acquitted themselves rather well overall considering it was their first fixture in a tough tough game. 

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11 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Plenty of pluses and minuses today. We certainly matched them early doors and could even say we had to best of it. Sadly the same issues, the goals were sloppy, especially the first 

Cantwell was superb, Max's crossing was poor. 

Impressed with Sargent when he came on. 

3 was harsh, but can't say they didn't outclass us in the 2nd half. 

I didn’t think Cantwell was that great yesterday. A lot seemed to break down with him, either with sloppy passing or running into a hole. Big boots to fill for him this year as he takes on Buendia’s role as the creative spark. Needs to make sure basics are done well first and foremost then let his creativity come through at the right time.

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We did ok for the first 20 minutes and then Liverpool bossed it. Still a couple of decent signings away from being stronger than last time in the premiership. New signings looked good.

Still not addressed the physicality issues we have and have to be better in both boxes.  Covid affecting the pre-season hasn't helped and got to hope our confidence survives the tough opening.

Hope Farke gets that DCM, centre back and left back he wants or can see a tough season.

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Without provoking a cavalry charge of abuse, I think once again we are seeing that the top teams have a physicality as well as pace and skill.

You don't have to be big, just stronger than your opponent. And Liverpool wore us down minute by minute with their ability to be first to the loose ball and put us off our game by their presence.

Todd does some memorable stuff, has a workrate second to none and the ability to do something special I love him to bits but its not an insult to say that his tackling is a cross between a cotton bud and a child's Tonka digger.

Rupp hasn't Todd's skill or workrate but covers well but once again isn't able to get a foot in now and again to disrupt.

And we don't have someone with Mane's immediate pace that in the first five yards gives him the advantage. Or VVD's aerial presence that meant every high clearance from us came straight back.

These little moments are crucial during games and are as important as a stunning move or great cross.

Its not a criticism of our players, its just one of the facts that makes the top teams better than us.

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11 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

Spot on. That’s simply not good enough at this level.

He's simply had about a quarter of a professional pre season.

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2 minutes ago, FatCanary said:

He's simply had about a quarter of a professional pre season.

Irrelevant - you see a player ghosting into the box in your position you don’t walk/trot back - you’ve gifted them a goal.  Aarons had plenty left in the tank to burst up the wing several more times, so you’re simply wrong if you’re implying he had no energy left.  

Put simply he was badly wrong for that goal and got a mouth-full from Gibson, which was fully earned.

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All three goals had elements we could improve on, plus a sprinkling of bad fortune for the 1st and 2nd. 

You could see the third coming from the very first corner - they had 3 or 4 players on the edge of the area waiting for the 2nd ball every single corner; we didn't seem to have a plan to combat it. It will be interesting to see if other teams use the same tactic against us.

OTBC

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5 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Having chewed on it overnight, I'm going to say the game was "mixed". A few things of concern, but definitely a fair bit to be encouraged by. So here's my good, bad and ugly.

GOOD
1. BACK AT CARROW ROAD - Great to be back, blah blah etc etc. All been said to death already.

2. NEWBIES - I thought to a man, all the new players who participated in the game gave us cause to be optimistic. Rashica's runs and dribbling had both Liverpool full backs scrambling at times. I noted by the end of the first half, Liverpool were having Virgil go over to assist whenever he got the ball. Gilmour did well in a position clearly not his best, picking out the sort of passes at times that a lad of his age and stature should not be able to make, let alone often when being pressed by someone like Mo Salah or Sadio Mane. Pierre Lees-Melou started slowly in my view, but by the end of the game was key to what was going on. Josh Sargent did good things in his brief cameo - I thought he looked strong, composed and worked hard. 

3. FULL BACKS - Dimi and Aarons were faultless. Both played so well up and down that flank. Aarons looks like a proper Premier League player now and had the beating of the Liverpool wings. Dimi was equally as good. Yes, his defensive ability is sometimes suspect (as Archant has seemingly taken to pointing out every time he's mentioned) but his hard work, his attacking prowess, his passing were all splendid. 

4. THOSE FIRST 30 MINUTES - We kept possession, dictated tempo, prodded and thrusted around Liverpool and made it very hard work for them. For me, if an 80% fit Norwich City can do this against a side which is going to be in that top 4 this season, then that is encouraging. 

BAD

1. GOALS - Some sloppy defending leading to the goals. Again, I don't blame the players for this, I think their fitness levels were understandably not at the place they should be. I would like to see a third central defender brought in to really push Hanley and Gibson this season. I think Zimmermann, as colossal as he has been at times since joining, and Andy Omobamodiele, who I think will be a Premier League player in a year or twos time, can't quite reach their levels. 

2. PHYSICALITY IN MIDFIELD - As encouraging as the midfield were (I saw a lot of criticism of Rupp, which I thought was unfair as he was ok, not great, just ok) I think we lack either a proper box to box midfielder who can lend a bit of strength and muscle to Billy Gilmour and contribute offensively too or a proper, good number six. Now I get what Farke is trying to do with this system. Gilmour with his flair and range of passing is sitting to receive the ball on the counter quickly and set off our speedy front players. For that reason, maybe we need that box to box midfielder rather than a defensive midfielder, just someone who can drop back to help Gilmour out. 

3. TIRING - Look, I went into this game thinking we were going to lose, and thought a good result would be to lose by a goal or two. Three - nil I thought flattered Liverpool, who although clearly very, very good I think are defensively frail. But this isn't about Liverpool. One of my reasons for thinking that is our interrupted pre-season. By the 65th minute, I thought we had several players who looked particularly tired. That's hardly a surprise given the circumstances, but it's something we do need to sort out. We should be grateful that the fixture list has given us these difficult ties that even a 100% fit NCFC would have struggled against as it would have been devastating to have to play sides we could beat. 

UGLY

LIVERPOOL FANS - I saw a group of them pour off a bus in a layby near Morrisons all swigging alcohol, start a chant, try to provoke a fight between them and a group of Norwich fans before continuing to stagger towards Carrow Road, being abusive to Norwich fans as they went. Followed up by the homophobic chanting inside the stadium. Having been to Anfield two or three times, I've never been left impressed by them. Classless fans for a classy club.

MY MOTM

Tough one. Not sure how the official MOTM ended up as Todd, thought he was good, but others better. I thought Rashica's first half performance was superb, but died off in the second as he tired. I thought Gilmour was decent throughout. You'd probably have a good argument for Aarons to. But I'd probably give it to Dimi, who I thought made his mistakes, but looked really good as an offensive force throughout coming forward, had that shot on goal and was an absolute thorn in the side of Liverpool for the entire game. 

They say football is subjective, but then you see drivel like this and realise it really isn't. Some people just don't understand what they are watching. Because Aarons was awful yesterday. No ifs, buts, or maybes. Awful. Maybe try rewatching the game. As for the 'homophobic' chanting. It's a chant that has been going for years and i very much doubt anyone in history has been genuinely offended by it. Childish banter at worst. But offensive? Jesus wept......

All the best. Big Keith Scott.

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