****The Official Lapps Match Thread v Liverpool *****

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

13 minutes ago, chicken said:

So basically, no one is allowed to be honest because it doesn't suit you?

It is totally fair. On any given day a game is played, teams can only beat the team that is out there in front of them. Having listened and read reports for games earlier, most said that Villa's forward play lacked the sort of coherency that players have who have spent more time gelling - that was in response to the question of "did they miss Grealish". One pundit suggested they missed Watkins. Either way, Villa will play much better this season. Watford are no mugs either.

Brentford... worked bloody hard for that win. But they didn't look good doing it. As in, they didn't dominate, they didn't really create a whole lot but they worked much harder and wanted it far more than Arsenal. An Arsenal side without their best two strikers that would walk into half of this leagues teams. That would have been like us facing Liverpool without Mane and Salah for example.

I would also say at this point we don't know who our relegation rivals are. You might assume that it is Watford and Brentford, but it is just as possible to see Brighton, Southampton, Villa, Wolves, Palace down there if they don't pick up results.

The main difference is that we played an on form Liverpool side that is one of three teams tipped to win the league. Villa and Arsenal are not even close to being favourites to win the league. 

Sorry, that's just rubbish. They looked very good, backed up by several match reports. 

[Ward 3 371]

18 minutes ago, norfolkbroadslim said:

The idiots, who can't see the bigger picture are certainly out posting in here today.  At least they have been countered by the sensible, level-headed ones, who are not just panicking at an opening day defeat against Liverpool.  There are many things which need to be factored in, most of which have already been mentioned during the thread and it's not a case of making excuses.

I can't help but think, had a certain poster been here, he would have played his "we're doomed..." trump card!

 

Few people are talking sense on here. And you certainly are 🙌

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

6 minutes ago, Orly said:

I am sick to the back teeth of Lpool benefitting from lucky ricochets against us, always crucial first two goals as well, just like the 4 -1 at Anfield.

To be fair I’m not sure I’d class Hanley booting it in our own net 2 years ago as a lucky ricochet 😆

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

14 minutes ago, chicken said:

I'd have been more confident of us getting a result yes. Looked as good? Depends. Who knows?

But you are probably right. We should pack our bags and only return once we're in the championship again... this season is already a gonna.

I am? Surely I'd need to have said that?

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

9 minutes ago, chicken said:

It IS exactly what you are doing. That's the point you started from.

No it isn't. 

Chicken, you have previous of twisting things with your articulate approach. I won't delve into a petty point scoring debate over this. 

I'm not comparing our defeat to Liverpool against Brentford and Watfords ability to beat Arsenal and Villa. Clearly our task was much harder, but I don't agree with the implied rhetoric that Brentford and Wafords victories owed more to the poor performances of the opposition. They both put in top performances fully deserving of the three points, and if we'd done similar, we'd only be focusing on what we did and attribute little to the oppositions contribution. 

This is the point I'm starting from, and finishing. 

[HairyTeeth 16]

What people need to realise is we had a troubled pre season which would put any team behind on fitness, game time etc.........

We didnt look as sharp as we normally do and a few errors were made.

I am very confident we will finish around mid table once everything clicks into place.

[chicken 2,604]

14 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Not at all, it just sounds like excuse making. 

It's not. It's being pragmatic and balancing reality with expectations.

I didn't expect us to win this game. I hoped a rusty Liverpool side would turn up to give us a chance of a result. That in itself is a tough ask as Klopp is essentially what Farke was following at Dortmund, so you know he will push his players hard in pre-season. Which they got in force.

Sorry, but I'm not going to bash our team if they struggle against Man City, Man Utd or Liverpool.

It's fine to get annoyed or frustrated at losing, but you simply must temper that with who the opposition are. And especially don't, on the first day of the season, bang on about relegation contenders getting results - suggesting that we should have done the same. And then tell everyone the opposition has nothing to do with it, nor the quality of them... 🙄

[chicken 2,604]

6 minutes ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

No it isn't. 

Chicken, you have previous of twisting things with your articulate approach. I won't delve into a petty point scoring debate over this. 

I'm not comparing our defeat to Liverpool against Brentford and Watfords ability to beat Arsenal and Villa. Clearly our task was much harder, but I don't agree with the implied rhetoric that Brentford and Wafords victories owed more to the poor performances of the opposition. They both put in top performances fully deserving of the three points, and if we'd done similar, we'd only be focusing on what we did and attribute little to the oppositions contribution. 

This is the point I'm starting from, and finishing. 

Ok, lets put it another way.

Do you think that was a full strength Arsenal team playing to the best of their ability?
Was that a Villa side playing in total unison and on top of it's game?

Now, do you think Liverpool put in a performance we have come to know of them, that they can switch up and down the gears with ease, tearing teams apart on the counter? Or do you thing it was a woeful Liverpool performance that would have been beaten by the Watford and Brentford performances of today?

Because that is what you are arguing. We're not allowed to say that Arsenal are a shadow of their former selves. Or that Villa packed far more venom over the last couple of seasons. Or that Liverpool performed far better than either of them today and it is clear to see of the three, who the title contenders are.

Because that's excuse making?

[Chelm Canary 404]

Look calm down. All is not lost, it's Man City away next.

[BigManInTheBarclay 75]

First 3/4 games are free hits really....if we get anything it's a bonus. 

 

I thought we showed some nice movement today, Gannoulis or Hanley MOTM ahead of Todd for me. 

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Lots of promise there with some of our play and thought Rashica looked good. We were up against a top side. We will get better and will cause sides problems. 

But when they say they’ve learnt you have to question precisely what they think they have learnt? It’s not how to do basic marking from set pieces and corners? It’s not how to avoid making defensive c**k ups at key moments. And more than anything else it does not appear to be that a defensive midfielder with physical presence should have been the first and main priority signing this summer: it’s not good enough to say we are still looking to bring someone in. It should have been done ages ago as the massive area of space in front of our defence today which Liverpool were able to exploit demonstrated vividly.

it has to be addressed urgently or else all the good stuff will be undermined. 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Didn’t expect any points from today so not down about the result even though I thought at half time if Liverpool continue to play in 3rd gear we could steal something. More unhappy with lessons not being learnt from 2 yrs ago and that has nothing to do with covid outbreak or lack of game time. Defence needs better protection, subs need time to change a game, set pieces need defending properly… all stuff that hurt us last time. Thought Sargent looked good in short cameo, could finally be some striker competition.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Surely no-one imagined that fairy dust was going to be sprinkled over Carrow Road this afternoon?

I could list so many things that mitigated us losing by a margin today but its pointless.

I prefer to look at the plusses at the moment. And there were some.

Gilmour looks outstanding. LeesMelou looks assured. Rashica showed us he has more going for him than Hernandez or Placheta. Idah came on and looked able and Sargent looked at home straight away. Plus the usual suspects did OK.

Time to admit we were beaten by a team a class above at least 16 teams in this division.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Added so much pace to our team this summer so what do we do? Pack the box with everyone on our corners and give ourselves no outlet, Liverpool can afford to have their players sat on the edge of the box ready to pick up the 2nd ball. We should leave a player up on halfway just to alleviate some of the opposition pressure and give ourselves an outlet. It’s been 4 seasons, I thought he’d have learned by now. 

[HazzaJet 252]

1 hour ago, Upo said:

We ran out of gas. Half the squad is recovering from Covid. Look at 1st half performance. It was solid.

Agreed. Think Farke also left the subs too late

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

52 minutes ago, chicken said:

It IS exactly what you are doing. That's the point you started from.

He doesnt understand. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 minute ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Added so much pace to our team this summer so what do we do? Pack the box with everyone on our corners and give ourselves no outlet, Liverpool can afford to have their players sat on the edge of the box ready to pick up the 2nd ball. We should leave a player up on halfway just to alleviate some of the opposition pressure and give ourselves an outlet. It’s been 4 seasons, I thought he’d have learned by now. 

To be honest, you are right. We should try things against teams we cannot match in the normal ways. Why not try leaving three up on the half way line when they have a corner. They will leave 4 back.

Its little things like that we can employ to even things up now and again. We have nothing to lose in trying it.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Just now, HazzaJet said:

Agreed. Think Farke also left the subs too late

Yes. Not an unfamiliar topic.

[hogesar 9,618]

5 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Added so much pace to our team this summer so what do we do? Pack the box with everyone on our corners and give ourselves no outlet, Liverpool can afford to have their players sat on the edge of the box ready to pick up the 2nd ball. We should leave a player up on halfway just to alleviate some of the opposition pressure and give ourselves an outlet. It’s been 4 seasons, I thought he’d have learned by now. 

I personally think Farke knows what he's doing here. We did score on the counter from corners with this exact tactic last season. 

 

15 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Lots of promise there with some of our play and thought Rashica looked good. We were up against a top side. We will get better and will cause sides problems. 

But when they say they’ve learnt you have to question precisely what they think they have learnt? It’s not how to do basic marking from set pieces and corners? It’s not how to avoid making defensive c**k ups at key moments. And more than anything else it does not appear to be that a defensive midfielder with physical presence should have been the first and main priority signing this summer: it’s not good enough to say we are still looking to bring someone in. It should have been done ages ago as the massive area of space in front of our defence today which Liverpool were able to exploit demonstrated vividly.

it has to be addressed urgently or else all the good stuff will be undermined. 

I mean, you don't learn not to make defensive mistakes. It isn't like they start the season thinking let's make a few mistakes then work on it for crying out loud.

The reality is today was the first time our CB partners played together in how long? 2 or 3 months and not a minute of pre season for Grant either.

[hogesar 9,618]

Just now, keelansgrandad said:

Yes. Not an unfamiliar topic.

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

[interwebme 52]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

What did he do wrong exactly? Other than needing to learn how to shoot.

It's not exactly what he did wrong but more a question of what did he do right? 

He just didn't seem to offer much whereas Gilmour and PLM did in terms of definsive screening and progressive passing. 

[wcorkcanary 4,329]

6 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Added so much pace to our team this summer so what do we do? Pack the box with everyone on our corners and give ourselves no outlet, Liverpool can afford to have their players sat on the edge of the box ready to pick up the 2nd ball. We should leave a player up on halfway just to alleviate some of the opposition pressure and give ourselves an outlet. It’s been 4 seasons, I thought he’d have learned by now. 

Very  naive, you think Farke hasn't thought about this and decided ( probably through stats and research) that we stand a better chance of not conceding either directly or indirectly by defending a corner  this way. ? 

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

Reading through the thoughts it seems a lot were impressed with Rachica’s contribution today so clearly I missed something and am wrong in thinking he was a bit…meh today. Didn’t have the directness of Hernandez or the pace of Placheta, decisions lacked often such as floated balls to the back post for Pukki or choice of runs. I know it takes time to get an understanding going, it’s only first game so not making any firm views yet but genuinely interested to know why the good reviews? Thought Dowell looked better.

[Midlands Yellow 3,944]

14 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

That’s utter nonsense, the last ten minutes created more real chances than the previous eighty. 

Edited August 14, 2021 by Midlands Yellow

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

We gave a reasonable account of outselves given fitness levels, beaten by a top quality side but who really didn't have to get out of second gear.

A positive start by Rashica and hopefully the final product will come soon. Gilmour is a class act and wouldn't look out of place in that Liverpool team. Gianoullis superb throughout, Aarons good in patches but failed to track back for their second goal. Hanley & Gibbo looked solid but by christ they need a quality DM in front of them. That said I thought Rupp and Lees-Melou worked very hard. A few nice touches from Cantwell but I thought he could have done much better if I'm honest. Pukki and willing work horse but when we did get the ball in the box he's was never there. Far too easier game for Van Dyjk.

Have to say I was a bit confused by our initial formation with Cantwell right and Rashica left and it annoyed the fupp out of me that Todd kept drifting in. Thankfully they swapped, eventually.  

Tough old start and didn't really build up a head of steam although a few good moments in the 1st half.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Capt. Pants

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,782]

18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

I'm going to disagree here. We were being completely overrun before the subs and looked very jaded, but at least had some sort of outlet and more energy when Sargent and Idah came on.

I'll admit that a big mitigating factor is that Liverpool seemed to have taken their foot off the pedal, however.

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

18 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Disagree. Thought the subs made us worse if anything.

Sorry disagree with you there. Thought we looked far better balanced, Sargent linked far better with Max and Idah caused more problems than Pukki did all game. 

 

[Justin time 182]

1 minute ago, Capt. Pants said:

We gave a reasonable account of outselves given fitness levels, beaten by a top quality side but who really didn't have to get out of second gear.

A positive start by Rashica and hopefully the final product will come soon. Gilmour is a class act and wouldn't look out of place in that Liverpool team. Gianoullis superb throughout, Aarons good in patches but failed to track back for their second goal. Hanley & Gibbo looked solid but by christ they need a quality DM in front of them. That said I thought Rupp and Lees-Melou worked very hard. A few nice touches from Cantwell but I thought he could have done much better if I'm honest. Pukki and willing work horse but when we did get the ball in the box he's was never there. Far too easier game for Van Dyjk.

Have to say I was a bit confused by our initial formation with Cantwell right and Rashica left and it annoyed the fupp out of me that Todd kept drifting in. Thankfully they swapped, eventually.  

Tough old start and didn't really build up a head of steam although a few good moments in the 2nd half.

Am confused by Liverpool . What gear were they in? According to posters on here they were in either 1st 2nd or 3rd gear.

 I take it from the negativity that we were in 6th and are not going to get any better.

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, Monty13 said:

Really like the look of Sargent, just in that brief cameo who looked good. 

USA…..USA…… nice little cameo indeed👍

[Van wink 2,994]

Anybody got a sore throat yet, or a bit of a cough?