****The Official Lapps Match Thread v Newcastle *****

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

26 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

No, it’s depth.  Our starting XI is generally ok, we had a number of players unavailable today to have made a difference to our starting XI, but depth means we’d have better back up.  Obviously some signings may be out-and-out starters, others might not be.

Not accepting that, sorry. Our starting XI is currently missing a proper DM who can screen and shield the defence, without which we’ll be defensively exposed time and time again. Also, our “starting” XI relies on both Hanley and Gibson being fit, otherwise we’re starting Zimbo (not an EPL defender) and Om (young, raw, inexperienced). We were supposed to add strength and steel to the squad but instead we’ve added more quick attacking players in an effort to fill the “Emi hole”, and somehow managed to fail to address the defensive side. And that’s before we even discuss the lack of LB cover if Byram can’t make a miraculous recovery against all odds.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

I think you can add in that we also were unable to start Pukki due to being only a few days out of isolation.

This time next week we could also have Tzolis and Sargent, who both have a complete pre-season behind them. I know Newcastle could equally add players... still.

Then you also have to consider the bench. Newcastle started with Joelinton - who is still worth more than our squad on his own, and Almeron and then had Saint-Maximin, Shelvey and Gayle to come on 2nd half.

Just goes to show you why we need more depth. Hopefully we won't be in a position where we have so many out again this season. Do we know what the rules are for substitutes this season? If it's the same as last season, you can't help but feel it'll favour the sides with deeper squads.

That may be the case. I’m actually not worried about us going forward because of that.

however, how many times when we were last up did we have the better of the first half for long periods before being picked off by the opposition because our midfield is too easy to play through and we make f**k ups at the back? Those were the weaknesses we were supposed to be addressing but based on today they are still there. 

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

19 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Not accepting that, sorry. Our starting XI is currently missing a proper DM who can screen and shield the defence, without which we’ll be defensively exposed time and time again. Also, our “starting” XI relies on both Hanley and Gibson being fit, otherwise we’re starting Zimbo (not an EPL defender) and Om (young, raw, inexperienced). We were supposed to add strength and steel to the squad but instead we’ve added more quick attacking players in an effort to fill the “Emi hole”, and somehow managed to fail to address the defensive side. And that’s before we even discuss the lack of LB cover if Byram can’t make a miraculous recovery against all odds.

Yes, so what you’re saying is that we need more depth.

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

I hit submit too soon.….the point is we have players for all positions but need more.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,358]

Just now, Branston Pickle said:

I hit submit too soon.….the point is we have players for all positions but need more.

We need a new first choice DM. That’s a “starting XI” problem, because we haven’t replaced Skipp. I’ll agree that the CB issue is a “depth” problem, although tbh anyone we bring in should be at the required level to displace either Gibson or Hanley.

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

We need a new first choice DM. That’s a “starting XI” problem, because we haven’t replaced Skipp. I’ll agree that the CB issue is a “depth” problem, although tbh anyone we bring in should be at the required level to displace either Gibson or Hanley.

I don’t think we are disagreeing.

The problem, as ever, is £££.

[Jim Smith 2,314]

4 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t think we are disagreeing.

The problem, as ever, is £££.

 

4 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

I don’t think we are disagreeing.

The problem, as ever, is £££.

It shouldn’t be. This should have been the absolute number 1 target this summer but we’ve not really been linked with any proper holding/defensive  midfielders. They need to pull their fingers out and sort it quickly or it will undermine everything else. 
 

 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

Even 2 seasons ago Webber saw the importance of a ball winning holding midfielder in Amadou , albeit that ot didnt work out...but we still had Tettey to fall back on, now we dont even have Tettey.

It beggars belief that they think they could go into a premier league season without such a midfielder....unless Lees Melou can somehow perform that role.

Neither Gilmour , McLean or Rupp are of that type.

...yet we're about to go and spend 17 odd million on Sargent and Tzolis ?

[Branston Pickle 3,632]

7 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Even 2 seasons ago Webber saw the importance of a ball winning holding midfielder in Amadou , albeit that ot didnt work out...but we still had Tettey to fall back on, now we dont even have Tettey.

It beggars belief that they think they could go into a premier league season without such a midfielder....unless Lees Melou can somehow perform that role.

Neither Gilmour , McLean or Rupp are of that type.

...yet we're about to go and spend 17 odd million on Sargent and Tzolis ?

It does seem a bit on the strange side - we have bought any number of wingers in the past few years abut barely seem to know how to use them.  It’s a little odd.

[Peanuts 150]

12 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Even 2 seasons ago Webber saw the importance of a ball winning holding midfielder in Amadou , albeit that ot didnt work out...but we still had Tettey to fall back on, now we dont even have Tettey.

It beggars belief that they think they could go into a premier league season without such a midfielder....unless Lees Melou can somehow perform that role.

Neither Gilmour , McLean or Rupp are of that type.

...yet we're about to go and spend 17 odd million on Sargent and Tzolis ?

In their last live Q&A Connor and Paddy said that signing a defensive midfielder was now top priority, followed by a full back. They said the club no longer see another centre back signing as a priority given how impressive Omobamidele has been.

Paddy also said negotiations for Billing had been going on for weeks, so I expect that is who they want for the DM role although I'm not convinced by him myself.

Still plenty of time left for signings, but you have to say that given the impact Skipp had last season it would be suicide to go into the PL without a decent replacement.

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Are we holding out as long as possible to get Skipp back in? Are the club being told there’s a good chance he could return if Spurs get their transfers in? Could also be why we haven’t got Williams in yet as that would be our loans filled up (and that was rumoured to be at an advanced stage).

Spurs fans I know and analysts of them say that as much as they love Skipp, he’s not ready for their first team, though this could be because Nuno has played him as the right of a midfield three in each pre-season game. Hojberg has the holding role.

All guesswork but seems strange to have not secured a DM yet and we know how well Skipp would just slot back into the team.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

2 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Are we holding out as long as possible to get Skipp back in? Are the club being told there’s a good chance he could return if Spurs get their transfers in? Could also be why we haven’t got Williams in yet as that would be our loans filled up (and that was rumoured to be at an advanced stage).

Spurs fans I know and analysts of them say that as much as they love Skipp, he’s not ready for their first team, though this could be because Nuno has played him as the right of a midfield three in each pre-season game. Hojberg has the holding role.

All guesswork but seems strange to have not secured a DM yet and we know how well Skipp would just slot back into the team.

That could be it - although I would have thought we might buy one and hold out for skipp - as we are very short in terms of that position 

[hogesar 9,611]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

I think its OK to have some concerns right now.

Yes it's preseason but we're being comfortably beaten by a team that would likely be a rival in any relegation battle we end up in. 

 

Only if, as some are doing, you totally remove all context.

We've been interrupted by covid, missing out on two friendlies and lots of team training. We still had 7 out today because of covid. Other teams will naturally be much further ahead in their pre season fitness levels and without checking im assuming Newcastle are one of them. 

We've also had injury problems - Hanley not playing etc.

I fully expect the first couple of the weeks of the season to be very difficult, because of the above and because of the fixtures. I think Farke has made that pretty clear. 

[hogesar 9,611]

3 hours ago, king canary said:

I think its OK to have some concerns right now.

Yes it's preseason but we're being comfortably beaten by a team that would likely be a rival in any relegation battle we end up in. 

 

Only if, as some are doing, you totally remove all context.

We've been interrupted by covid, missing out on two friendlies and lots of team training. We still had 7 out today because of covid. Other teams will naturally be much further ahead in their pre season fitness levels and without checking im assuming Newcastle are one of them. 

We've also had injury problems - Hanley not playing etc.

I fully expect the first couple of the weeks of the season to be very difficult, because of the above and because of the fixtures. I think Farke has made that pretty clear. 

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,251]

Rupp to have an ankle injury assessed, Mclean suffers recovery set back too. Rupp can't be relied upon for a full season, incredibly frustrating. 

Although just a friendly, feels all too familiar to an away game two season ago. We're still so far off a fit EPL squad raring to go. Both in terms of players needed and fitness. Probably best we have the opening fixtures we do and not ones that are really meaningful in terms of staying up. 

Need another CDM and CB. 

[curious yellow 184]

1 hour ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Even 2 seasons ago Webber saw the importance of a ball winning holding midfielder in Amadou , albeit that ot didnt work out...but we still had Tettey to fall back on, now we dont even have Tettey.

It beggars belief that they think they could go into a premier league season without such a midfielder....unless Lees Melou can somehow perform that role.

Neither Gilmour , McLean or Rupp are of that type.

...yet we're about to go and spend 17 odd million on Sargent and Tzolis ?

We've got Sorensen, who I think must start v Liverpool, it's a bonus that he can play centre defence. 

We seem to have spent big money on players in similar positions, but nothing on central defenders. Still time to go but fitness is the problem. Omobamidele is a great prospect but being on the wrong side of some bad defeats might not be a good thing for his development. 

[Vazzza 62]

2 hours ago, curious yellow said:

We've got Sorensen, who I think must start v Liverpool, it's a bonus that he can play centre defence. 

We seem to have spent big money on players in similar positions, but nothing on central defenders. Still time to go but fitness is the problem. Omobamidele is a great prospect but being on the wrong side of some bad defeats might not be a good thing for his development. 

To be fair we’ve spent quite a lot of money on Gibson this window so that isn’t really true. Not arguing that we need a 5th after the last prem campaign, but I echo others above that CDM and LB have to be the biggest concerns right now.  
Agree about Omobamidele tho, especially as most of the time we’ve seen him play it’s while we’ve had a lot of the ball. God knows how well he’ll manage dealing with some of the best players in the world running at him.

I do think Hanley/Gibson fit all season is a prem quality partnership. But yeah, decent screen for them required ASAP!!!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

15 hours ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

Even 2 seasons ago Webber saw the importance of a ball winning holding midfielder in Amadou , albeit that ot didnt work out...but we still had Tettey to fall back on, now we dont even have Tettey.

It beggars belief that they think they could go into a premier league season without such a midfielder....unless Lees Melou can somehow perform that role.

Neither Gilmour , McLean or Rupp are of that type.

...yet we're about to go and spend 17 odd million on Sargent and Tzolis ?

I don’t think the signing of Sargent and Tzolis is any indication that we’re not trying to prioritise the DM position though, clearly we can work on more than one player at a time, it’s just how things end up falling.

However I don’t disagree with your overall tone of panic… and the panic button must be pretty close to being pressed behind the scenes with how things have gone in preseason up to this point, with us generally struggling to strengthen post the Buendia sale, key positions still missing, missed friendlies, injury / COVID set backs - but I have faith that Webber is best placed to fix the current state of the squad in terms of our incomings!

However regardless of who we bring in from now until the end of the window I’m expecting a really shaky start to the season. Although the first few games are basically write-offs anyway, I just hope there isn’t too much long term damage done to our confidence. What would a 0-4 and 0-5 against Liverpool / Man City and subsequent media pile-ons do to our mentality for the rest of the season? Particularly with plenty of new players coming in to the premier league for the first time.

Right now I think I’d genuinely debate taking a 0-1/1-2 loss in both those starting games just so I knew there were no total humblings to our under strength team…

[chicken 2,604]

13 hours ago, Vazzza said:

To be fair we’ve spent quite a lot of money on Gibson this window so that isn’t really true. Not arguing that we need a 5th after the last prem campaign, but I echo others above that CDM and LB have to be the biggest concerns right now.  
Agree about Omobamidele tho, especially as most of the time we’ve seen him play it’s while we’ve had a lot of the ball. God knows how well he’ll manage dealing with some of the best players in the world running at him.

I do think Hanley/Gibson fit all season is a prem quality partnership. But yeah, decent screen for them required ASAP!!!

It's also worth noting we really did get a good deal on Gibson. If you look at how much teams are  trying to get for similar quality players. You are looking at over £10m for a top end Championship competent CB. The lad from Fulham will be about that I suspect, as will Worral. Billings is £15m supposedly. Those are the sort of figures.

Going out there and picking up a decent CB for less will mean pinching a reserve team PL CB or going abroad.

I honestly get a bit confused as to why people think it is so easy to go out there and build a squad. Villa spent £150m to stay up by a dodgy decision Vs Shef Utd. Fulham spent £100m and have been relegated twice. Watford spent big on a single player and got relegated...

[Disco Dales Jockstrap 1,891]

4 players short for me. Need a CB and DCM for starting 11. FB and Pukki cover for squad.

OTBC

[Jim Smith 2,314]

Not that it matters too much but Gayle looks miles offside for their third. Also worth noting we did take Gilmour and PLM off before they really got on top. Still feel we need that DCM though. 

[curious yellow 184]

17 hours ago, Vazzza said:

To be fair we’ve spent quite a lot of money on Gibson this window so that isn’t really true. Not arguing that we need a 5th after the last prem campaign, but I echo others above that CDM and LB have to be the biggest concerns right now.  
Agree about Omobamidele tho, especially as most of the time we’ve seen him play it’s while we’ve had a lot of the ball. God knows how well he’ll manage dealing with some of the best players in the world running at him.

I do think Hanley/Gibson fit all season is a prem quality partnership. But yeah, decent screen for them required ASAP!!!

Gibson was a good signing but the deal was done a year ago. Hanley has made a fantastic improvement but we need an upgrade on the the Championship side, particularly as we are probably playing an extra centre back. We pulled the plug on rhe Ajer deal and hopefully we won't regret doing so. 

With the extra centre back there will be 3 forwards, Pukki, Cantwell, Dowell, Idah and the 3 new players, with most of the investment for these positions.