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1 hour ago, DirtyDishFC said:

Yeah I think the financial issues the club has been faced with over the last few years and they began to focus too much defensively. A couple years back they were almost relegated but they did find themselves in a lot of high scoring affairs. I think their manager focused too much on pragmatism and the chance creation just dried up. Some key injuries didnt help. It was a long time coming for their relegation. 

They are the type of club like a Villa who could probably turn it around quickly, but sometimes you have to lose some guys you dont want to lose. If push came to shove Im sure they would like to keep Sargent, and part of me wonders if scoring a bunch of goals in the 2nd division wouldnt be the worst thing for him as a player. At the same time finances are an issue for practically every club that doesnt have a tycoon running them willing to eat the losses that COVID has brought. 

I think they lost their identity along the way, so a reset in expectations is probably good for them. 

Having watched a lot of  Bremen I can confirm that they were terrible. It seems like Sargent was listed as a Striker but  played all over. He should benefit being away from that situation. 

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15 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Vince has got a point, Sargent looks really poor, he's got no left foot at all.

What does he do. Hop about on one leg. Every footballer has a predominant strong leg, and the other is used for standing on!

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The Bundesliga site just posted this article and it does give a fair assessment with some quotes from his former manager and I believe the current technical director. I hadnt really thought of it in the way they point out that he may be akin to a Roberto Firmino type player. Which obviously needs to be used in a certain fashion. Ill leave it here for anyone that wants to check it out. 

It does sound like this is happening as the Bremen hierarchy admitted that he has been released from training to finalize a move in the coming days. 

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/2bundesliga/news/where-is-josh-sargent-s-best-position-werder-bremen-usa-striker-16737

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American here... I will echo what DirtyDish has said previously about Sargent's tremendous work rate.  He seems to have good hold up play and good technical ability as well. 

I've followed his progress pretty closely since his standout performances at youth world cups.  I guess where I stand now is I don't know how much progress he has made since moving to Bremen.  They spent most of the season chasing games with Sargent relentlessly trying to win the ball back.  Not to say he is without faults but I don't think it was great for his development.  I had a really hard time watching them.  I am hopeful that it will be similar to a Weston McKennie situation where he was a good player at a horrible club in Schalke and then showed just how good he could be when he joined Juventus.  Perhaps the same happens for Sargent at Norwich.  Reading up on Farke has me feeling optimistic.

It's certainly a step up in competition and the club has invested in him.  Our national team needs a quality striker so please help!

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6 hours ago, DirtyDishFC said:

The Bundesliga site just posted this article and it does give a fair assessment with some quotes from his former manager and I believe the current technical director. I hadnt really thought of it in the way they point out that he may be akin to a Roberto Firmino type player. Which obviously needs to be used in a certain fashion. Ill leave it here for anyone that wants to check it out. 

It does sound like this is happening as the Bremen hierarchy admitted that he has been released from training to finalize a move in the coming days. 

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/2bundesliga/news/where-is-josh-sargent-s-best-position-werder-bremen-usa-striker-16737

On the basis of that article, whatever Webber and Farke have got planned for the boy, it is not as a striker and we should therefore not regard it as a striker acquisition at all. So we therefore remain with just Pukki and Idah and I don't see where the goals are coming from with those two, unless Idah has his breakthrough season this year, which is a tough ask in this league, to say the least.

I hope Webber and Farke know what they are doing with this one, but I remain deeply sceptical. I am assuming that Tzolis is earmarked for the wide right berth, so why would you bring in Sargent to put him there? What with Rashica, Toddwell and Dowell as well, where is Sargent going to play if not as striker? This signing is a fudge. Striker but not a striker. Going to end badly. Confused transfer strategy. Scott going to Boro already looking a disaster. 

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Krul

Arrons Hanley Gibson Gianoulis

Lees Melou  Gilmour

Rashica Dowell Cantwell

Pukki

 

Tzolis, Sargent, Rupp, Idah, Mumba, Omobomidele, Gunn,

 

Shows how strong the squad is when the below don't even make the squad:

Sorensen, Zimmerman, placheta, hernandez, byram, mclean, mcgovern, hugil. Have I missed anyone???? 

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40 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

This signing is a fudge. Striker but not a striker. Going to end badly. Confused transfer strategy. Scott going to Boro already looking a disaster. 

Christ, nothing like a bit of positivity in the morning is there! Give the lad a chance mate, he’s not even been announced yet.

 

Besides, you’re reading too much into this “best position” nonsense. He’s a striker. He plays as a striker, and has always played as a striker. That’s where he will play for us. He may not be the prolific goalscoring striker that we all want yet, but that may come. 
 

Have some faith, we’re not going to pay 8 million quid or however much it is for some position-less no-hoper, there’s clearly a reason we’ve been after him, but it just may not be immediately obvious to people like us who have far less resources at our disposal to make a judgement. 

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On 05/08/2021 at 23:47, Big Vince said:

15 goals in 86 games for relegated team in Germany.

Is this EPL quality? No.

Is the price tag right for Delia's Norwich? Yes.

Verdict: Championship signing for season commencing 22/23.

Would have been better to hang on to see how Toddwell situation develops before committing to this signing. More money = better targets.

Discuss.

 

You're just  a sh1t  TvB !!!

Or is TvB just a sh1t Vince?

You decide!!

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39 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

On the basis of that article, whatever Webber and Farke have got planned for the boy, it is not as a striker and we should therefore not regard it as a striker acquisition at all. So we therefore remain with just Pukki and Idah and I don't see where the goals are coming from with those two, unless Idah has his breakthrough season this year, which is a tough ask in this league, to say the least.

I hope Webber and Farke know what they are doing with this one, but I remain deeply sceptical. I am assuming that Tzolis is earmarked for the wide right berth, so why would you bring in Sargent to put him there? What with Rashica, Toddwell and Dowell as well, where is Sargent going to play if not as striker? This signing is a fudge. Striker but not a striker. Going to end badly. Confused transfer strategy. Scott going to Boro already looking a disaster. 

Depth was clearly lacking in the last campaign, sounds like he would add that in multiple positions. However I agree that on the surface it would look a strange signing if not as an out and out striker.

The issue for us as fans is that Farke is really not worried about playing players in new positions, asking them to take on roles that we perhaps didn't expect. That's especially the case with young players. I really don't think we are going to know how lots of these players are seen by Norwich before the start of the season. Question marks for me still hang over Rashica, Sargent (assuming it happens), Mumba, Lunghi, Plachetta, and Tzolis (same caveat as above).

This also linked some Buendia like qualities interns of movement, work rate and defensive ability.

Also Big Vince, I'm liking the new posting style, gives people something to really discuss. Not sure the Scott thing is relevant though, Sargent was earmarked before that.

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4 minutes ago, Hoolahoop14 said:

Christ, nothing like a bit of positivity in the morning is there! Give the lad a chance mate, he’s not even been announced yet.

 

Besides, you’re reading too much into this “best position” nonsense. He’s a striker. He plays as a striker, and has always played as a striker. That’s where he will play for us. He may not be the prolific goalscoring striker that we all want yet, but that may come. 
 

Have some faith, we’re not going to pay 8 million quid or however much it is for some position-less no-hoper, there’s clearly a reason we’ve been after him, but it just may not be immediately obvious to people like us who have far less resources at our disposal to make a judgement. 

To be fair we wasted a load of money on RVW and Naismith!! Our track record when spending big money (for us!) isn’t great.

 However I have faith in Webber  and Farke so fingers crossed for Sargent

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I remember when Pukki signed, we all said, who, checked out his stats, and it felt a little underwhelming.

I'd have preferred an all out striker to push Pukki, and maybe Idah can step up, but Farke & Webber will have done their homework, and have a great track record of developing [players, so we have to trust Sargent will work

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The more I read from people who actually know what they're talking about the more I understand why Webber and Farke are so keen on Sargent. While his scoring record taken isolation is not that good he plainly can play the Pukki role as a lone ('lone' being the key word there) central striker, and that is crucial, because we might well need him to do that during the season. That is the main priority. But his mobility is such he can also play out wide, and fit into the whirling, shape-shifting way we like to attack.

Edited by PurpleCanary
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It sounds as though his workrate is key to us signing him. Like it or not we are going to spend a lot of this season chasing the ball, and it sounds as though he's used to that at Bremen!

At that sort of money he's not a Hugill 3rd choice run the clock down option, can see him getting the nod over Idah tbh.

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2 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The more I read from people who actually know what they're talking about the more I understand why Webber and Farke are so keen on Sargent. While his scoring record taken isolation is not that good he plainly can play the Pukki role as a lone ('lone' being the key word there) central striker, and that is crucial, because we might well need him to do that during the season. That is the main priority. But his mobility is such he can also play out wide, and fit into the whirling, shape-shifting way we like to attack.

Completely agree.

Earlier in the window, it was reported that we were looking for a forward who could play centrally and out wide. Cue strong links to King and Armstrong. Not seeing value in those deals, we moved on to other targets.

Sargent seems to fit that brief, is young and with considerable potential upside. Looks like he could be a smart signing to me, hope it works out for all parties.

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2 minutes ago, kirku said:

Completely agree.

Earlier in the window, it was reported that we were looking for a forward who could play centrally and out wide. Cue strong links to King and Armstrong. Not seeing value in those deals, we moved on to other targets.

Sargent seems to fit that brief, is young and with considerable potential upside. Looks like he could be a smart signing to me, hope it works out for all parties.

reminds me of a young David Strihavka

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3 minutes ago, bristol_canary said:

reminds me of a young David Strihavka

This post reminds me of a young TvB

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3 hours ago, Big Vince said:

On the basis of that article, whatever Webber and Farke have got planned for the boy, it is not as a striker and we should therefore not regard it as a striker acquisition at all. So we therefore remain with just Pukki and Idah and I don't see where the goals are coming from with those two, unless Idah has his breakthrough season this year, which is a tough ask in this league, to say the least.

I hope Webber and Farke know what they are doing with this one, but I remain deeply sceptical. I am assuming that Tzolis is earmarked for the wide right berth, so why would you bring in Sargent to put him there? What with Rashica, Toddwell and Dowell as well, where is Sargent going to play if not as striker? This signing is a fudge. Striker but not a striker. Going to end badly. Confused transfer strategy. Scott going to Boro already looking a disaster. 

That's quite a remarkable mis-reading of the article. As the manager of WB put it, "We only play with one central striker and we can therefore only play one of our strikers there,”. Nothing in the article saying that he's not a striker, merely speculation and discussion about the other roles he is capable of filling. 

"Josh is extremely important for our team," said Clemens Fritz, a former Bremen and Germany midfielder who now heads up the club's professional football department. "The amount of work he puts in, the stability he gives us in terms of defence - I've been really impressed by the way he's executing all that. We need that intensity. Josh is such an unbelievable team player.”

In short, exactly the sort of player that will help us battle for survival.

Excellent work Mr Webber!

Edited by horsefly

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10 hours ago, DirtyDishFC said:

The Bundesliga site just posted this article and it does give a fair assessment with some quotes from his former manager and I believe the current technical director. I hadnt really thought of it in the way they point out that he may be akin to a Roberto Firmino type player. Which obviously needs to be used in a certain fashion. Ill leave it here for anyone that wants to check it out. 

It does sound like this is happening as the Bremen hierarchy admitted that he has been released from training to finalize a move in the coming days. 

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/2bundesliga/news/where-is-josh-sargent-s-best-position-werder-bremen-usa-striker-16737

Thank you for the link - it was interesting and encouraging 👍

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Like most on here it seems, I was lukewarm about this player at first, but I am now beginning to like the idea. 

There seems to be a lot of thought put into this signing by the City hierarchy, this is usually a good thing.

I think young Sargent could well earn his stripes under Daniel Farke.

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41 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

There seems to be a lot of thought put into this signing by the City hierarchy, this is usually a good thing.

Isn't that pretty much the minimum we should expect? 

I have no opinion either way on Sargent but I fully trust Farke. If the signing is good enough for him, it's good enough for me.

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3 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

The more I read from people who actually know what they're talking about the more I understand why Webber and Farke are so keen on Sargent. While his scoring record taken isolation is not that good he plainly can play the Pukki role as a lone ('lone' being the key word there) central striker, and that is crucial, because we might well need him to do that during the season. That is the main priority. But his mobility is such he can also play out wide, and fit into the whirling, shape-shifting way we like to attack.

Yeah his versatility and work rate should be crucial for us. It also gives us options of having two up top as Sargent seems different enough to Pukki that they could work as a pair. Another positive is he adds to the height of the team too- we could feasibly have a team containing Gibson, Hanley, Giannoulis, Lees Melou and Sargent all starting an all over 6 foot, which should make us less vulnerable on set pieces.

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12 hours ago, DirtyDishFC said:

The Bundesliga site just posted this article and it does give a fair assessment with some quotes from his former manager and I believe the current technical director. I hadnt really thought of it in the way they point out that he may be akin to a Roberto Firmino type player. Which obviously needs to be used in a certain fashion. Ill leave it here for anyone that wants to check it out. 

It does sound like this is happening as the Bremen hierarchy admitted that he has been released from training to finalize a move in the coming days. 

https://www.bundesliga.com/en/2bundesliga/news/where-is-josh-sargent-s-best-position-werder-bremen-usa-striker-16737

I also found this to be a good, objective view. I'm confident he can play the Pukki role when called upon or come on from the bench as a second striker. I also think he'll fit our tactical fluidity up front wherever he plays. His scoring record is from playing at the top in the Bundesliga whereas Armstrong and others are playing in the second tier. Pukki scored 29 there, then 11 in the PL, so it's a false comparison.

My concern about Rashica and Tzolis is their defensive contribution if we play in a 4-2-3-1. Like Buendia, Sargent is tenacious when the ball is lost and he's also good at forcing turnovers. I can see him also playing the Buendia role on the right, which is a bonus. The article backs up my feeling that he has a good footballing brain and reads the game well and reacts quickly, which is crucial in the PL. 

Edited by Yelloow Since 72

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32 minutes ago, king canary said:

Yeah his versatility and work rate should be crucial for us. It also gives us options of having two up top as Sargent seems different enough to Pukki that they could work as a pair. Another positive is he adds to the height of the team too- we could feasibly have a team containing Gibson, Hanley, Giannoulis, Lees Melou and Sargent all starting an all over 6 foot, which should make us less vulnerable on set pieces.

To take this a little further, we could also have McLean and Sorenson too. (I don't think Giannoulis is particularly good in the air however?).

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I'm looking at Josh Sargent's stats and I see a guy who has played a lot of minutes in Bundesliga and doesn't have major injury concerns. 20/21 season he featured in 32 matches and played for 2500+ minutes. You don't play a guy in Bundesliga for 2500+ minutes without a reason. There is no doubt in my mind that his total contribution is not captured by the obvious stats.

It is obvious DF and SW like this guy. Without doing any further analysis on this, I'm going to say that if you want to take Teemu off @ 80 minute mark every match, and perhaps cover for his absence due to injury, you want reliability first and goal involvements second. There is also a possibility that due to Josh's youth, he hasn't found his optimal position on field. We think he's our back up CF. Farke may have other ideas.

 

Edited by Upo

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2 hours ago, Upo said:

There is no doubt in my mind that his total contribution is not captured by the obvious stats.

Yep! That was the key point of the article that BV decided he would ignore.

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30 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Yep! That was the key point of the article that BV decided he would ignore.

So tell me, if Pukki doesn't score and Idah is not ready to score at this level, then who is going to score? People on here are talking as if it doesn't even matter. You can talk about the boy's contribution in other areas until you are blue in the face, but if no one is going to score then it will be as you were 2 years' ago - 20th place and down.

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24 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

So tell me, if Pukki doesn't score and Idah is not ready to score at this level, then who is going to score? People on here are talking as if it doesn't even matter. You can talk about the boy's contribution in other areas until you are blue in the face, but if no one is going to score then it will be as you were 2 years' ago - 20th place and down.

It is very true. The energy and ability to run into the challenge etc is fantastic but goals are key. One thing I will add is that with the attacking wide players we have brought in we could have chances laid on a plate. That is once they are settled, I think it is key to get a striker who can make a goal out of nothing. But as many have said that can cost money but there will be those players out there. So let's see.

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Your question is one that can be asked of most of the teams in the PL.

Pukki did score last time in the PL until a foot injury crapped up his season (Maybe you remember the hattrick against Newcastle, and the PL Player of the Month award). Secondly, both Idah and Sargent are unknown quantities at this stage (pretty much like a lot substitute strikers in a lot of teams). Thirdly, we have more players with proven records of scoring in our squad this year (Cantwell, Rashica, Dowell, Lees-Melou, Tzolis). I'm happy to offer you a £100 bet (for charity) that we score more goals this time round, and more goals will come from players other than Pukki).

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3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Your question is one that can be asked of most of the teams in the PL.

Pukki did score last time in the PL until a foot injury crapped up his season (Maybe you remember the hattrick against Newcastle, and the PL Player of the Month award). Secondly, both Idah and Sargent are unknown quantities at this stage (pretty much like a lot substitute strikers in a lot of teams). Thirdly, we have more players with proven records of scoring in our squad this year (Cantwell, Rashica, Dowell, Lees-Melou, Tzolis). I'm happy to offer you a £100 bet (for charity) that we score more goals this time round, and more goals will come from players other than Pukki).

Id say we score 40 goals this campaign. 

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