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Jim Smith

Cantwell. Surely there comes a time to draw the line on more

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Grealish is reportedly having a medical at ManC. The media seem to think they will go for Cantwell. 

Its up to us to back up the belligerent £40M or nothing.

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38 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Who knows. But I think its a fair comment to assume that it probably has made an impact, seeing as we are the first newly promoted prem side I can think of who have had their best player cherry picked from them - and potentially their second best too!

But we are not like any other club that has been promoted. We are doing it our way - so we are a one off in the scheme of things. I know people don't like it - and the media won't quite know what to make of it, but selling on players is the way we build. The players we are getting in to replace players like Emi are consistent with that - young and full of potential - alongside a good core of players already immersed in the way we play - and a Frenchman who looks as if he is street wise and experienced. 

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9 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

But we are not like any other club that has been promoted. We are doing it our way - so we are a one off in the scheme of things. I know people don't like it - and the media won't quite know what to make of it, but selling on players is the way we build. The players we are getting in to replace players like Emi are consistent with that - young and full of potential - alongside a good core of players already immersed in the way we play - and a Frenchman who looks as if he is street wise and experienced

And he's alongside a rejuvenated German who is also streetwise and experienced, as well as being more settled within the team. Noticeable how fast the ball moves between Gilmour, Rupp and PLM.

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If we get Tzolis then I agree with him, Rashica and PLM plus Sargent that looks like a reasonable use of the Buendia money although I would have preferred to keep Emi.

Expecting us to be able to do it again with any Cantwell money in a couple  of weeks at the end of the window and bed in all the new players this season? I still maintain that is a big ask and an unnecessary risk when we have a player who looks to be really kicking on and whom we don’t need to sell for financial reasons. 

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30 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Grealish is reportedly having a medical at ManC. The media seem to think they will go for Cantwell. 

Its up to us to back up the belligerent £40M or nothing.

Some funny comments going round that Man City will fail his medical and go for Messi instead!

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39 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

If we get Tzolis then I agree with him, Rashica and PLM plus Sargent that looks like a reasonable use of the Buendia money although I would have preferred to keep Emi.

Expecting us to be able to do it again with any Cantwell money in a couple  of weeks at the end of the window and bed in all the new players this season? I still maintain that is a big ask and an unnecessary risk when we have a player who looks to be really kicking on and whom we don’t need to sell for financial reasons. 

Totally agree with you here Jim. Totally bang on IMHO. 

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1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Who says we can't replace it though?  Chances are that what we have brought in so far will do well, others will step up and new players to come in.  Don't like seeing star players go, but if they do, we build up the strength of the team/squad on the proceeds. 

With respect Lakey, last time we went up we expected the same "will do well" from Amadou, Fahrmann, Roberts, Drmic and Duda. Now I know the situation isn't the same, but there are zero guarantees that a player from outside the EPL can perform in it, which is why Todd is so valuable to us right now, with the loss of Emi he's the only player in our entire squad that has a proven record of creating and scoring in the EPL. We go to war in just over a week and Webber is about to take away Farke's sharpest sword.

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12 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Webber is about to take away Farke's sharpest sword.

We don't know that is what will happen. But even if it did, it would be because Cantwell would want to go and as people keep saying there is precious little point holding on to a player if they want to move on. So it would not be Webber taking away a player, it would be market forces and player desire that would be the reason.  You just cannot hold back players if an offer comes along that fulfils the value of the player and the player wants to take it. 

If it has to happen, it happens and we make the best of it by buying other good players and prospects. I get that Cantwell is a hero and I've learned to love him as a player for us as he's progressed and it will be a wrench if he goes, more so than Emi, but there is no point in trying to blame anyone. It is just the way football works and the way we have developed players to become so desireable to other clubs. 

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3 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Because Lakey, we can’t field a team of stacks of pound notes. It’s all very well selling Todd for £40m, but £40m can’t provide goals and assists in the Premier League. Given the apparent difficulty in landing our targets this window I’d rather keep a slightly disgruntled Todd with the promise that we’ll sell him regardless of whether we stay up, do so and then have more cash to replace him next year.

I'd imagine he'd be more than 'slightly' disgruntled if an opportunity to double/treble/quadruple his wages was denied against his wishes though. How long would it take him to sort his head out? How many games into the season would it take for him to start producing if at all? 

I just hope he is happy to stay here, even if that means not signing another contract. Having players not at loggerheads with the club is absolutely vital  

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3 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:

I'd imagine he'd be more than 'slightly' disgruntled if an opportunity to double/treble/quadruple his wages was denied against his wishes though. How long would it take him to sort his head out? How many games into the season would it take for him to start producing if at all? 

I just hope he is happy to stay here, even if that means not signing another contract. Having players not at loggerheads with the club is absolutely vital  

Because if he wants his dream move, triple his salary or whatever, then he needs to get his head down and help NCFC survive in the EPL.

It's not a great look to 'put your parts on' as they say and won't help his cause in the long run. He's tried this before with Herr Farke and there will only be one winner.

I'm sure Webber and or Farke have already had words with him about this and he will be well aware that he's going nowhere unless our transfer demands are met.

 

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12 minutes ago, Gordon Bennett said:
3 hours ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Because Lakey, we can’t field a team of stacks of pound notes. It’s all very well selling Todd for £40m, but £40m can’t provide goals and assists in the Premier League. Given the apparent difficulty in landing our targets this window I’d rather keep a slightly disgruntled Todd with the promise that we’ll sell him regardless of whether we stay up, do so and then have more cash to replace him next year.

I'd imagine he'd be more than 'slightly' disgruntled if an opportunity to double/treble/quadruple his wages was denied against his wishes though. How long would it take him to sort his head out? How many games into the season would it take for him to start producing if at all? 

I just hope he is happy to stay here, even if that means not signing another contract. Having players not at loggerheads with the club is absolutely vital  

I think it's safe to say the player knows the score - and for all we know, Webber has set the price high so that no one will come in for Todd.  We've heard over and over that we won't hold our players back from moves if the price is right and at £40m, if a club is stupid rich enough to offer the full amount to trigger a move, then the club have been shrewd to put such a high figure on him.  Todd knows the valuation and he is likely cool with the knowledge that no-one is likely to pay that much and that he will be staying. But he will also be aware that a stupid money is no object Villa type club could come up with the money and that he would be off. 

I'm confident that Todd has learned from last time there was a load of speculation or offers and that with an older and wiser head on his shoulders he can ride it this time so that it doesn't affect him on the pitch or in training.  He is in a win win situation whether he stays or goes - and at £40m so are the club, because despite what is being said by some, if we don't get that amount offered, we get to keep him or if that figure is reached, we can strengthen quite nicely with that to invest in players.

Or is that too sensible an approach to take?

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There seems to be a club every season willing to pay ‘silly money’, one that’s been taken over or had some cash injection, stating we want £x amount just isn’t a big enough deterrent. It’s perfectly reasonable to say no more star players to leave in current window and not have max, Todd or anyone else feel it’s unjustified.

would also point out, it’s not just Norwich that have worked out you can make profit from player sales, every club is trying to do the same and almost all PL clubs have an advantage over us while trying to do it. We are not unique in doing this but we have been more successful than most in the last 4-5 yrs at it. Some major cogs of that success have now left the club and to think we will just keep churning out replacements at a quarter of the cost isn’t, to use a fashionable word, sustainable.

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10 hours ago, Clint said:

This notion that we can sell Todd for £40m and simply spend the proceeds to make the team/squad better is nonsense. 
 

If he goes, we’d have lost 2 of our front 3 from last season and arguably our 2 best players. That’s probably the best part of 50 goals from last season in terms of the goal itself and assists. 

You can’t just go out and replace that for so many reasons. It’s just not that simple.


 

 

You are correct up to point, personally I view it as an opportunity to get a more balanced squad with a bit more strength in depth from the last time we were in the Premier League.............

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9 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

Because if he wants his dream move, triple his salary or whatever, then he needs to get his head down and help NCFC survive in the EPL.

It's not a great look to 'put your parts on' as they say and won't help his cause in the long run. He's tried this before with Herr Farke and there will only be one winner.

I'm sure Webber and or Farke have already had words with him about this and he will be well aware that he's going nowhere unless our transfer demands are met.

 

I really hope for all our sakes that it turns out to be that straightforward.

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In this argument , again , it is obvious that there are now people who just accept the sale of another club favourite for the big money (even one of our own) and set it aside as "that's the way we work". I can understand this to an extent , but I have to include "it makes me feel nervous". 

How can you prepare for a PL season , if your team gets it's heart cut out? The loss of two vital players can't be mended just like that , it just can't! Even if we sign so and so (who won't be better  , coz we can't afford better. They MAY become better , but they won't be atm) , it will become a long and hard season. This is not me spreading the doom and gloom , it's facing the facts. The team that got us up has lost two major assets if we lose Emi AND Todd imho . They have proven themselves at PL level , the ones we have brought in mostly haven't. This doesn't mean they can't be good signings but it will take time for the team to gel and that's the problem.

I am very glad we still have Farke here , as he has done a hell of a job and is a good man to have when young lads have to fill big shoes... But the PL , as we saw last time, is not the Championship. You have to hit the ground running and stay up for it. I hope we can land a few good signings and make the best out of it , but losing Emi and Todd , and even Max would make the fight for survival difficult imho.

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1 hour ago, ROBFLECK said:

In this argument , again , it is obvious that there are now people who just accept the sale of another club favourite for the big money (even one of our own) and set it aside as "that's the way we work". I can understand this to an extent , but I have to include "it makes me feel nervous". 

How can you prepare for a PL season , if your team gets it's heart cut out? The loss of two vital players can't be mended just like that , it just can't! Even if we sign so and so (who won't be better  , coz we can't afford better. They MAY become better , but they won't be atm) , it will become a long and hard season. This is not me spreading the doom and gloom , it's facing the facts. The team that got us up has lost two major assets if we lose Emi AND Todd imho . They have proven themselves at PL level , the ones we have brought in mostly haven't. This doesn't mean they can't be good signings but it will take time for the team to gel and that's the problem.

I am very glad we still have Farke here , as he has done a hell of a job and is a good man to have when young lads have to fill big shoes... But the PL , as we saw last time, is not the Championship. You have to hit the ground running and stay up for it. I hope we can land a few good signings and make the best out of it , but losing Emi and Todd , and even Max would make the fight for survival difficult imho.

You simply can't state this as fact. Rashica could outperform Cantwell in the prem this season, for example. 

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10 minutes ago, hogesar said:

You simply can't state this as fact. Rashica could outperform Cantwell in the prem this season, for example. 

A reaction I anticipated , the word "fact" is maybe not the best choice...but what do you think about my argument about "getting a team to gel" ? 

That takes time! 

I honestly think you need to keep the core of the team together and hope for an injury free season to have the best chance.

I hope Rashica does great and I think he's a good addition , but I'm sad we're selling the top players who got us here. And I don't think you can just replace them without having enough time.

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1 hour ago, ROBFLECK said:

In this argument , again , it is obvious that there are now people who just accept the sale of another club favourite for the big money (even one of our own) and set it aside as "that's the way we work". I can understand this to an extent , but I have to include "it makes me feel nervous". 

How can you prepare for a PL season , if your team gets it's heart cut out? The loss of two vital players can't be mended just like that , it just can't! Even if we sign so and so (who won't be better  , coz we can't afford better. They MAY become better , but they won't be atm) , it will become a long and hard season. This is not me spreading the doom and gloom , it's facing the facts. The team that got us up has lost two major assets if we lose Emi AND Todd imho . They have proven themselves at PL level , the ones we have brought in mostly haven't. This doesn't mean they can't be good signings but it will take time for the team to gel and that's the problem.

I am very glad we still have Farke here , as he has done a hell of a job and is a good man to have when young lads have to fill big shoes... But the PL , as we saw last time, is not the Championship. You have to hit the ground running and stay up for it. I hope we can land a few good signings and make the best out of it , but losing Emi and Todd , and even Max would make the fight for survival difficult imho.

I appreciate your attempt to be a bit more balanced than some sceptics regarding our self-funding model and its implications for player sales. You're certainly not the first to point out that the sale of Buendia and Cantwell would amount to the sale of our two best performers last time in the PL. But may I point out again that the performance of these two was not remotely good enough to prevent relegation. What clearly cost us most was a lack of quality and strength in depth in key departments. For the transfer fee obtained for Buendia we have recruited Rashica, Lees-Melou, and hopefully Tzolis and Sargent, with some cash left over. Personally I consider that to be exceptionally astute work by Webber that has strengthened the squad considerably. Will I miss those moments of sublime Buendia magic? Absolutely! But do I firmly believe that the aggregated contribution of the four players just mentioned will significantly outweigh those Buendia moments as we pursue PL survival? Absolutely!

Our midfield and defence look considerably stronger than last time round. And who knows whether the obvious rare talents of Rashica and Tzolis will continue to develop in the way Buendia's did under Farke's inspired coaching. Personally I hope Cantwell stays, but if he doesn't I'm confident Webber has targets in mind to strengthen the squad further. Time to consider the NCFC cup half-full and not half-empty I think.

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12 hours ago, lake district canary said:

We don't know that is what will happen. But even if it did, it would be because Cantwell would want to go and as people keep saying there is precious little point holding on to a player if they want to move on. So it would not be Webber taking away a player, it would be market forces and player desire that would be the reason.  You just cannot hold back players if an offer comes along that fulfils the value of the player and the player wants to take it. 

If it has to happen, it happens and we make the best of it by buying other good players and prospects. I get that Cantwell is a hero and I've learned to love him as a player for us as he's progressed and it will be a wrench if he goes, more so than Emi, but there is no point in trying to blame anyone. It is just the way football works and the way we have developed players to become so desireable to other clubs. 

Being realistic, there isn’t a player in our squad that wouldn’t want to go if a progressive EPL team came in and was offering to double / triple wages and offer the potential of pushing for honours rather than a likely relegation fight.

At some point we have to look after our own immediate interests.    

1 hour ago, ROBFLECK said:

In this argument , again , it is obvious that there are now people who just accept the sale of another club favourite for the big money (even one of our own) and set it aside as "that's the way we work". I can understand this to an extent , but I have to include "it makes me feel nervous". 

How can you prepare for a PL season , if your team gets it's heart cut out? The loss of two vital players can't be mended just like that , it just can't! Even if we sign so and so (who won't be better  , coz we can't afford better. They MAY become better , but they won't be atm) , it will become a long and hard season. This is not me spreading the doom and gloom , it's facing the facts. The team that got us up has lost two major assets if we lose Emi AND Todd imho . They have proven themselves at PL level , the ones we have brought in mostly haven't. This doesn't mean they can't be good signings but it will take time for the team to gel and that's the problem.

I am very glad we still have Farke here , as he has done a hell of a job and is a good man to have when young lads have to fill big shoes... But the PL , as we saw last time, is not the Championship. You have to hit the ground running and stay up for it. I hope we can land a few good signings and make the best out of it , but losing Emi and Todd , and even Max would make the fight for survival difficult imho.

Agree with you on this.   Highly unlikely new additions will be as good as Todd and Emi within 6 months let alone this whole season.   We’ve also not replaced Skipp with a EPL level holding midfielder.    

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1 minute ago, ged in the onion bag said:

We’ve also not replaced Skipp with a EPL level holding midfielder.

I love Skipp, but he certainly isn't a proven EPL level holding midfielder. The jury is very much still out on that, and as far as PL experience goes Gilmour is a veteran by comparison.

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1 minute ago, ROBFLECK said:

A reaction I anticipated , the word "fact" is maybe not the best choice...but what do you think about my argument about "getting a team to gel" ? 

That takes time! 

I honestly think you need to keep the core of the team together and hope for an injury free season to have the best chance.

I hope Rashica does great and I think he's a good addition , but I'm sad we're selling the top players who got us here. And I don't think you can just replace them without having enough time.

Yeah, Farke's style normally seems to require a little longer than normal to acclimatise to, so you'd rather get them in early. But most transfer action is happening late in the window, we certainly won't be unique to that.

The money we're talking about for Cantwell is £40m + at the moment. What would be regarded as "silly money" by some. I guess at that sort of money Webber believes he can improve the overall team, even if it means we start slightly slower (where our fixtures are difficult anyway, to be fair).

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9 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I appreciate your attempt to be a bit more balanced than some sceptics regarding our self-funding model and its implications for player sales. You're certainly not the first to point out that the sale of Buendia and Cantwell would amount to the sale of our two best performers last time in the PL. But may I point out again that the performance of these two was not remotely good enough to prevent relegation. What clearly cost us most was a lack of quality and strength in depth in key departments. For the transfer fee obtained for Buendia we have recruited Rashica, Lees-Melou, and hopefully Tzolis and Sargent, with some cash left over. Personally I consider that to be exceptionally astute work by Webber that has strengthened the squad considerably. Will I miss those moments of sublime Buendia magic? Absolutely! But do I firmly believe that the aggregated contribution of the four players just mentioned will significantly outweigh those Buendia moments as we pursue PL survival? Absolutely!

Our midfield and defence look considerably stronger than last time round. And who knows whether the obvious rare talents of Rashica and Tzolis will continue to develop in the way Buendia's did under Farke's inspired coaching. Personally I hope Cantwell stays, but if he doesn't I'm confident Webber has targets in mind to strengthen the squad further. Time to consider the NCFC cup half-full and not half-empty I think.

I appreciate your reply too and I can see what you are getting at. We don't know what the future holds . I agree with you on the defence ! Much stronger imo. 

I too have confidence in Webber and especially in Farke in getting things done , but I don't believe you can just replace team members who were the back bone of your team. This will always take some time. In the PL you might be sitting at the bottom of the table after 10 matches and losing confidence , because your team hasn't settled yet. I hope this doesn't happen and I have full confidence in Farke to prevent this. I have looked at our signings and I think we might have a few gems there too ... yet they need to get some time to get to know each other and to form a team.

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14 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

If we get Tzolis then I agree with him, Rashica and PLM plus Sargent that looks like a reasonable use of the Buendia money although I would have preferred to keep Emi.

Expecting us to be able to do it again with any Cantwell money in a couple  of weeks at the end of the window and bed in all the new players this season? I still maintain that is a big ask and an unnecessary risk when we have a player who looks to be really kicking on and whom we don’t need to sell for financial reasons. 

On reflection, I agree with you in this Jim, and losing Cantwell is not something I would want so late in the window as I don't think we could bed in extra new players so late in the window. However, still feel that the bigger risk is to team spirit + unity of purpose, if we refuse a player a move that he very much wants.

I certainly don't agree that there should be some sort of fan protest if it were to happen, as one poster alludes to - it would be a disastrous way to start a season!

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26 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I love Skipp, but he certainly isn't a proven EPL level holding midfielder. The jury is very much still out on that, and as far as PL experience goes Gilmour is a veteran by comparison.

you mentioned earlier that 'may I point out again that the performance of these two (Emi and Todd) was not remotely good enough to prevent relegation'.    Think we are both of the view we got relegated despite Emi and Todd though.    Its a team game and no way they could have prevented relegation alone.....     The reasons for relegation previously were injuries, some unlucky VAR decisions, players not stepping up, no central midfield and inadequate reinforcements in defence.... we had 3 very inexperienced lads and no one to guide them and in the run in a fully expected and understandable lack of belief.    It wasn't the performances of Todd or Emi.    

Of those issues, the main one was a complete lack of a central midfield and how as a result we were so exposed and that was obvious to anyone that knew anything before we kicked off the season.   

We've only ever addressed that issue since by loaning Skipp and I for one was hoping we would have scouted a couple of suitable additions for that holding role.    Apparently, we have been searching for them but there is no sign of anything at the moment and according to most reports none of Gilmour, Lees-Melou and Rupp are that player.    Based on Skipp's efforts last year he's very likely to make the step up and it's unlikely we will find anyone better.... you must agree we haven't replaced his guile and anticipation.   

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11 minutes ago, Badger said:

On reflection, I agree with you in this Jim, and losing Cantwell is not something I would want so late in the window as I don't think we could bed in extra new players so late in the window. However, still feel that the bigger risk is to team spirit + unity of purpose, if we refuse a player a move that he very much wants.

I certainly don't agree that there should be some sort of fan protest if it were to happen, as one poster alludes to - it would be a disastrous way to start a season!

As I see it too Badger. 

So - hypothetically - if we could say no to a £40 million bid without disgruntling Cantwell, would you reject it? I think I would - which does sound crazy to say.

But sadly I'm not sure we do have the power to say no, with our position on selling our players already so clear in the public (and most definitely to the players too) - I fear Webber can't now go back on his word. 

Best case scenario is that we don't actually get any formal bids for him, of course!

 

Edited by Hank shoots Skyler

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27 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

you mentioned earlier that 'may I point out again that the performance of these two (Emi and Todd) was not remotely good enough to prevent relegation'.    Think we are both of the view we got relegated despite Emi and Todd though.    Its a team game and no way they could have prevented relegation alone.....     The reasons for relegation previously were injuries, some unlucky VAR decisions, players not stepping up, no central midfield and inadequate reinforcements in defence.... we had 3 very inexperienced lads and no one to guide them and in the run in a fully expected and understandable lack of belief.    It wasn't the performances of Todd or Emi.    

Of those issues, the main one was a complete lack of a central midfield and how as a result we were so exposed and that was obvious to anyone that knew anything before we kicked off the season.   

We've only ever addressed that issue since by loaning Skipp and I for one was hoping we would have scouted a couple of suitable additions for that holding role.    Apparently, we have been searching for them but there is no sign of anything at the moment and according to most reports none of Gilmour, Lees-Melou and Rupp are that player.    Based on Skipp's efforts last year he's very likely to make the step up and it's unlikely we will find anyone better.... you must agree we haven't replaced his guile and anticipation.   

I agree with virtually all of that. My point is that for whatever reasons (injuries etc) the squad was too weak that even the talents of Buendia and Todd were not remotely capable of saving us from demotion. I think Webber's calculation was that it was impossible for us both to retain all our top talent, and strengthen the team with enough quality in depth so as not to repeat the mistake of having an under-strength squad last time. That trade-off is inevitable given the necessity of our self-funding model sans a beneficent billionaire. Personally I think Webber is spot in about that.

Where I do have a disagreement with you is over the replacement of Skipp. I fully expect Skipp to prove himself to be an international quality player. However, I'm not convinced we have to replace him like for like. If we move to a 4-3-2-1 formation (as we did the other night) I think PLM, Gilmour and Rupp (McClean and another) between them have more than enough guile and anticipation to switch between defensive and attacking duties as the situation dictates. Indeed, I think a three-man midfield looks a far more promising possiblity than a two-man set-up with Skiip at number 6. Skipp's "weakness" (seems a sin to suggest such a thing) was in his contribution to attacking play, PLM, Gilmour, and Rupp are all excellent passers of the ball capable of moving play quickly into counter-attack (something I think we shall rely on more this time round). Only time will tell.

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3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I agree with virtually all of that. My point is that for whatever reasons (injuries etc) the squad was too weak that even the talents of Buendia and Todd were not remotely capable of saving us from demotion. I think Webber's calculation was that it was impossible for us both to retain all our top talent, and strengthen the team with enough quality in depth so as not to repeat the mistake of having an under-strength squad last time. That trade-off is inevitable given the necessity of our self-funding model sans a beneficent billionaire. Personally I think Webber is spot in about that.

Where I do have a disagreement with you is over the replacement of Skipp. I fully expect Skipp to prove himself to be an international quality player. However, I'm not convinced we have to replace him like for like. If we move to a 4-3-2-1 formation (as we did the other night) I think PLM, Gilmour and Rupp (McClean and another) between them have more than enough guile and anticipation to switch between defensive and attacking duties as the situation dictates. Indeed, I think a three-man midfield looks a far more promising possiblity than a two-man set-up with Skiip at number 6. Skipp's "weakness" (seems a sin to suggest such a thing) was in his contribution to attacking play, PLM, Gilmour, and Rupp are all excellent passers of the ball capable of moving play quickly into counter-attack (something I think we shall rely on more this time round). Only time will tell.

Fair comments and hopefully, (if that's the route we follow) it will work out, time and performances will tell.   There is the possibility that this formation will make us less of an attacking threat (not saying it will but the EPL is a different beast) and if we have one or two holding midfielders it does give us some extra insurance at times and the option of a different plan with 3 behind the forward (as per the last few seasons, especially when we are chasing games!   More options tactically makes us less predictable.  

One of the other issues last time was that (in possession) our central midfielders struggled to receive the ball from the defence and build forward.    To be fair, these additions look much more capable in that regard.   

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On 05/08/2021 at 08:25, ricardo said:

Ive seen this same thread for the past twenty years. The only difference is the prices quoted have gone  from 3 to 4 million up to 30 to 40 million.

It's a good job the Internet didn't exist when we sold Ron Davies. To Southampton for God's sake. 

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