Villa no longer interested in Cantwell*

[Essjayess 307]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

Skipp doesn't want to come here. He's played for Spurs this pre season and made it clear he wants to be part of their first team.

He does not want to come here? Has he specifically said "I dont want to go to Norwich?.  Todd to is happy at Norwich and wants to be part of our first team..that wont stop him going to Villa if the right negotiations are met.  Plus all this is for fun, right?

[Indy 3,283]

9 minutes ago, Essjayess said:

He does not want to come here? Has he specifically said "I dont want to go to Norwich?.  Todd to is happy at Norwich and wants to be part of our first team..that wont stop him going to Villa if the right negotiations are met.  Plus all this is for fun, right?

To be honest I’m thinking even now Skipp will be on wages we could not spend, so really can’t see him here other than loan again, which looks like it probably won’t happen given his pre season involvement. I don’t think we need Skipp now, as good as he was we need a real powerhouse DM who can sit and break the game up, we’ve got such a choice of different midfielders but we don’t have physicality option.

[horsefly 4,287]

7 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Yes we could get lucky and unearth more gems like Pukki and Buendia. But do you accept in return that selling players worth £30 million and replacing them with players worth £10 million - more often than not- is a downgrade not an upgrade? 

You mean like when we sold Maddison for £25m and brought in the likes of Pukki, Vrancic, Stiepermann for under a million each and Buendia for £1.5m? Remind me how those moves worked out. 

You have also misrepresented what was said, it's not selling players worth £30m with players worth £10m, but ONE player worth £30m with THREE players worth £10m. And yes I reckon that equation does probably represent an upgrade for the SQUAD.

[horsefly 4,287]

7 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

 

You have continually drawn comparisons to the sales of Suarez, Bale, Coutinho (no less than 3 times I make it now) etc etc which are all true, but I keep saying in response that those transfers only took place after the holding clubs fought for their lives and did their upmost to try to keep those players where they were.

Its not the same as what we did for Buendia - you also appear to recognise that so I’m not sure why you keep alluding to ‘everyone has to sell their best players sometimes’. Everyone agrees with that statement!

I

I'm afraid his is a complete misrepresentation of the truth. When we were relegated last time I don't remember a single pundit who didn't say that Buendia would have to be sold because he was clearly too good for the championship. The ball-park figure that achieved common consensus was that £20m would inevitably trigger his departure. The club fought tooth and nail to keep him, even against Buendia's own wishes at the time to leave (hence he was dropped from the starting 11 at the beginning of the season, along with Cantwell I hope you note). So your claim that we just let Buendia go without a fight is plain nonsense. We kept him a season longer than anyone thought we had the power to do, and sold him a year later for an exceptional price (twice what we would have got if what you said about the club's lack of resillience was true). I don't understand why you persist in making these obviously false claims that Norwich, unlike every other club in the league, just roll over and allow any other club steal our best players without a fight. It's just not true.

[Uncle Fred 526]

I don’t think we can argue that Webber has done some great deals. if he sells Cantwell for £40 million he should be given the freedom of the city

[Somerset exile 4]

They would not be interested at £40M.

Buendia is a better player and he cost them £33M. admittedly that could rise but not to £40M

[Feedthewolf 4,844]

14 minutes ago, Somerset exile said:

They would not be interested at £40M.

Buendia is a better player and he cost them £33M. admittedly that could rise but not to £40M

If they get £100m for Grealish then it's possible. A bit like when Liverpool got £50m for Torres and immediately spunked £35m on Andy Carroll. If we could get that kind of money for Cantwell then it makes sense to reinvest it into the squad. He's a superb talent, but north of £35m would represent a deal worth doing. Being home-grown also adds a premium to the price.

[Indy 3,283]

If we did sell Cantwell for the £30 million it would mean in that in 4 seasons under Webber / Farke we’ve had two premier league seasons, including this one coming, solid five big players, Maddison, Lewis, Godfrey, Buendia & Cantwell (if it happens) for a total estimated in the region of £130 million. That’s some turn around to the years previous to our Webberlution! Credit to the set up in gaining premier league in two years out of five including this coming season. Credit where it’s due, but surely we now have a position where this money will be used to strengthen the squad and push on!

[Diane 500]

10 minutes ago, Indy said:

If we did sell Cantwell for the £30 million it would mean in that in 4 seasons under Webber / Farke we’ve had two premier league seasons, including this one coming, solid five big players, Maddison, Lewis, Godfrey, Buendia & Cantwell (if it happens) for a total estimated in the region of £130 million. That’s some turn around to the years previous to our Webberlution! Credit to the set up in gaining premier league in two years out of five including this coming season. Credit where it’s due, but surely we now have a position where this money will be used to strengthen the squad and push on!

@Indy - Sorry to go off topic but I've sent you a private message about your Super 6 entry,  which you haven't picked up

[Indy 3,283]

3 minutes ago, Diane said:

@Indy - Sorry to go off topic but I've sent you a private message about your Super 6 entry,  which you haven't picked up

Yes but I’m glad you reminded me Diane, I’ll log on tomorrow and pay my £5…….👍 Thanks.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Indy

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

I'm afraid his is a complete misrepresentation of the truth. When we were relegated last time I don't remember a single pundit who didn't say that Buendia would have to be sold because he was clearly too good for the championship. The ball-park figure that achieved common consensus was that £20m would inevitably trigger his departure. The club fought tooth and nail to keep him, even against Buendia's own wishes at the time to leave (hence he was dropped from the starting 11 at the beginning of the season, along with Cantwell I hope you note). So your claim that we just let Buendia go without a fight is plain nonsense. We kept him a season longer than anyone thought we had the power to do, and sold him a year later for an exceptional price (twice what we would have got if what you said about the club's lack of resillience was true). I don't understand why you persist in making these obviously false claims that Norwich, unlike every other club in the league, just roll over and allow any other club steal our best players without a fight. It's just not true.

We may as well agree to disagree.

We’re working from different starting points. I personally don’t actually think we received any formal bid for him, despite him wanting to leave.

So I don’t think we had to fight tooth and nail to keep him or Cantwell last season, Farke straightened him out to get him playing again when his head turned with the rumoured player interest. That was it, he still did very well to get them back and focused, don’t get me wrong, but I don’t think it was anything more than that. 

If you look at the bloated squad we ended up taking into the start of the season (Placheta and Dowell brought in) it’s pretty obvious to me that we planned for one of Cantwell or Buendia to be sold, but that didn’t transpire. Which was great obviously!

And regardless of what happened last season, even if you were right, that still doesn’t make what we did this season any different. We still put them in the shop window at the start of the window, something which is totally unprecedented for a newly promoted team!

I have never said we roll over and let transfers happen, I am talking about this window specifically, where we didn’t roll over as such, just showed our bellies to the potential buying clubs and let them fight it out.

Im not sure why you find it so difficult to accept, or see it for what it is, we did have a choice on the transfer and we chose to get it done early and try to get as much interest as we could at the start of the window. We didn’t need or have to do those things and I think it’s perfectly reasonable to assume that Buendia could still be an NCFC player right now if it wasn’t for our position to encourage the transfer.

Again, not a criticism, just calling it how I see it. Webber clearly feels that we were better off with the money than Buendia, and that’s fine, let’s see how things pan out. But we were not forced into the transfer at all. 

[horsefly 4,287]

1 minute ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

If you look at the bloated squad we ended up taking into the start of the season (Placheta and Dowell brought in) it’s pretty obvious to me that we planned for one of Cantwell or Buendia to be sold, but that didn’t transpire.

A somewhat bizarre claim given that both of those players featured in every match day squad alongside Buendia and Cantwell (including playing in a starting eleven with them) when they were fit.

[horsefly 4,287]

4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Im not sure why you find it so difficult to accept, or see it for what it is, we did have a choice on the transfer and we chose to get it done early and try to get as much interest as we could at the start of the window.

I've said precisely that! You need to re-read my posts. I even said that not only did we have a choice, but that it was exactly the right choice to make.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

19 minutes ago, horsefly said:

A somewhat bizarre claim given that both of those players featured in every match day squad alongside Buendia and Cantwell (including playing in a starting eleven with them) when they were fit.

Sorry??

So if we’d signed Rashica as our Buendia replacement but never sold Buendia, we would never feature them together?

I honestly don’t think them playing together proves anything whatsoever.

I actually happen to believe the fact we didn’t sell one of Cantwell / Buendia last summer is the one of the main reasons why we did what we did at the start of this window - as we ended up shorter than expected having sold just 2 of the golden 5, not 3 or even more. In fact I think that would be a pretty reasonable guess at the situation!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

19 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I've said precisely that! You need to re-read my posts. I even said that not only did we have a choice, but that it was exactly the right choice to make.

Yes you have said it. But then you also make comparisons to Coutinho, Suarez etc which are completely different situations!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

@horsefly also to add I think there is still a question mark over whether the Buendia was exactly the right thing to do or not. I think if we can make these extra 3 or so quality first team signings we need and those players do well then yes certainly. But if we continue to struggle to buy players and end up with say only another addition, and / or those players don’t hit the ground running - then I think Webber will look back at the approach as an error.

Clearly we can’t say either way as yet!

[horsefly 4,287]

8 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yes you have said it. But then you also make comparisons to Coutinho, Suarez etc which are completely different situations!

Jesus! This must be boring everyone to death by now, it certainly is me, so I'll just let it pass.

[horsefly 4,287]

10 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sorry??

So if we’d signed Rashica as our Buendia replacement but never sold Buendia, we would never feature them together?

I honestly don’t think them playing together proves anything whatsoever.

I actually happen to believe the fact we didn’t sell one of Cantwell / Buendia last summer is the one of the main reasons why we did what we did at the start of this window - as we ended up shorter than expected having sold just 2 of the golden 5, not 3 or even more. In fact I think that would be a pretty reasonable guess at the situation!

You said it was a "bloated squad". It wasn't.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

6 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You said it was a "bloated squad". It wasn't.

At risk of sounding like a pantomime - Oh yes it wasssss.

Take away the long term lay offs of Idah, Hernandez, Rupp, Steipermann and Dowell, had those players stayed fit all season Farke would’ve had a hell of a job keeping everyone happy. And this forum would’ve been packed with even more bickering about the team selections 😆

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

13 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Jesus! This must be boring everyone to death by now, it certainly is me, so I'll just let it pass.

No problem, as long as you see what I was getting at now. It absolutely was a very unique approach to the sale of our best player, there are very few examples of a club doing business like we have this window. Certainly no examples from recently promoted premier league clubs anyway. Let’s leave it at that 👍

[horsefly 4,287]

Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

At risk of sounding like a pantomime - Oh yes it wasssss.

Take away the long term lay offs of Idah, Hernandez, Rupp, Steipermann and Dowell, had those players stayed fit all season Farke would’ve had a hell of a job keeping everyone happy. And this forum would’ve been packed with even more bickering about the team selections 😆

And the fact of those injuries proves conclusively that the squad wasn't bloated, but big enough to cope with inevitable injuries (or are you really claiming that 5 injuries in the course of a season is unusual). 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

And the fact of those injuries proves conclusively that the squad wasn't bloated, but big enough to cope with inevitable injuries (or are you really claiming that 5 injuries in the course of a season is unusual). 

5 long term injuries solely in the attacking midfield positions is quite a lot yes, as that’s the area I was talking about. Horsefly we faced one of the worst injury crises I have ever witnessed from any side! Come on now… 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Hank shoots Skyler

[horsefly 4,287]

Just now, Hank shoots Skyler said:

as long as you see what I was getting at now. It absolutely was a very unique approach to the sale of our best player, there are very few examples of a club doing business like we have this window

No I don't get this at all because I think it's an absurd claim. Every team has a price they will sell a player for and every team knows every other team has a price they will sell a player for. Every team would certainly know that NCFC would have a price for every player on the books irrespective of what Webber or anyone says at any time (The same goes for Southampton, Palace etc, etc). Trying to create some radical unique difference in City's transfer policy simply because Webber said "don't pick up the phone if you're going to bid under £30m" is truly ridiculous. 

[horsefly 4,287]

7 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

5 long term injuries solely in the attacking midfield positions is quite a lot yes, as that’s the area I was talking about. Horsefly we faced one of the worst injury crises I have ever witnessed from any side! Come on now… 

You said the squad was "bloated", it wasn't. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

3 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You said the squad was "bloated", it wasn't. 

This isn’t an argument anymore it’s just contradiction.

But yes it was- in the midfield absolutely. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

6 minutes ago, horsefly said:

No I don't get this at all because I think it's an absurd claim. Every team has a price they will sell a player for and every team knows every other team has a price they will sell a player for. Every team would certainly know that NCFC would have a price for every player on the books irrespective of what Webber or anyone says at any time (The same goes for Southampton, Palace etc, etc). Trying to create some radical unique difference in City's transfer policy simply because Webber said "don't pick up the phone if you're going to bid under £30m" is truly ridiculous. 

I think there are lots of things that point towards it being a unique approach to a sale, but let’s just leave it at that. 👍

[horsefly 4,287]

4 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

This isn’t an argument anymore it’s just contradiction.

But yes it was- in the midfield absolutely. 

These were your exact words "If you look at the bloated squad we ended up taking into the start of the season"

[Yobocop 1,095]

2 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

I don’t think we can argue that Webber has done some great deals. if he sells Cantwell for £40 million he should be given the freedom of the city

Probably the only time I have and are ever likely to agree with you 

cherish it 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

26 minutes ago, horsefly said:

These were your exact words "If you look at the bloated squad we ended up taking into the start of the season"

Yes a bloated squad. Mainly in reference around the midfield positions because I was talking about us keeping both Cantwell and Buendia as well as signing two new players who play in similar positions. That’s why I also listed you 5 long term injuries only looking at the attacking midfield. 

The England national team is also bloated. In right back and in the attacking midfield positions. But there are also areas where we’re light - say defensive / central midfield. It’s still a bloated squad despite this.

I’m not even sure what we’re even arguing about any more, fairly sure I could say the sky is blue right now and you’d try to argue that it’s green. 

[hogesar 9,618]

12 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

Or put another way - I think the board settled for being a top championship team with occasionally forays into the premiership some time ago. Ergo new signings are made with an eye to maintaining that level not pushing us on - because this would involve risk they are not prepared to take and cannot afford under a self sustaining model. 
 

which is why we tend to see more ambition when relegated than promoted 

Has to be the biggest lie you've come up with on here recently.

Please compare our Premier League Transfer and Wage spend in comparison to the Championship. You can use the accounts to help you.

Hint : You're gonna look silly.