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Jim Smith

“We’ve come through without the need for outside investment”

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33 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Other clubs (Villa / Spurs) are not selling their main asset early on.... why? Waiting for better offers. 

Maybe, but do we know if they knocked back 'low / below valuation' bids?? 

Maybe because they were playing at the Euros had some impact?  

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3 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Maybe, but do we know if they knocked back 'low / below valuation' bids?? 

Maybe because they were playing at the Euros had some impact?  

From what is reported in the press, it might have been that Man U were hoping to persuade Pogba to signa new deal, but you never really know whether this is just drivel. I would have thought that they would have found out about this months ago, but can't claim any expertise of negotiating £400,000 a week contracts (much to my regret 😉).

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36 minutes ago, Badger said:

You'd have thought that if it was such a bargain someone else would have been prepared to pay more! Do you think it might just possibly be that nobody else thought he worth more?

So definitely not a rush job? Could we have held out for more or needed the cash ASAP. Things happened very quickly on that eventful Saturday afternoon. 

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1 hour ago, Kenny Foggo said:

It is not sensible, in my opinion, to say all investment is bad and our "self funded" model is the only way forward. I also think it is not credible to state no one is interested in NCFC.... if you just admitted that the owners have no interest in selling, at least that is truthful and credible.

Except that every word of that is untrue. Quote me one single person who has said "all investment is bad and our self-funded model is the only way forward". No one has said that. What many of us have said is that the self-funded model has proved to be the best model for City in recent years because as yet there has been no suitable wealthy investor who has come along and demonstrated he/she has the best interests of the club as their absolute priority. We are one of the few English clubs in football that is genuinely solvent, we have witnessed some of the most fantastic football in living memory, we have assembled squads of the most talented (multi-million pound) players we have seen, and we find ourselves again in the PL. All that has been achieved through a brilliant employment of the self-funding model. I would argue that's a pretty damn fine justification for pursuing the current approach we are taking.

I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy investors out there very interested in NCFC. I also suspect that their real interest is in our rich portfolio of very saleable assets ripe for stripping. When a wealthy investor comes along and demonstrably proves their interest is genuinely in the best interests of the club's survival and progression, then I'll be happy to move on to another model. Sans such an investor I'm indeed a happy clapper for the current self-funding set up.

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3 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Could we have held out for more or needed the cash ASAP.

When Arsenal got priced out, nobody else seem interested at the price we were asking.

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Just now, Badger said:

When Arsenal got priced out, nobody else seem interested at the price we were asking.

I’d imagine the deal had been brokered for a lot longer than we appreciate.  If Norwich had said it’s £40m or no deal would he still be here? Obviously we’ll never know but some of us believe Villa got a bargain. 

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46 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Let's be clear... as stated on MANY occasions I think the owners have done a great job in getting the club to the point it is. I have doubts if they can move it on to the next stage and don't follow the frankly defeatist "we are punching above our weight" theory. Whilst acknowledging the successes, I also acknowledge the position the club was in before selling Maddison, the away scheme fiasco, the ridculously high casual ticket prices, the sponsorship debacle (lets see if that £3.5m player might have made the difference at the end of the season). Yes the owners love our club but they are not beyond criticism like a vocal minority on here seem to think.

 

I think you right that the owners will not be in a position to take the club to the next level. In fact, it will probably become harder to maintain what they are doing.

There are no signs of extra income from increasing ground capacity and we can do no more than fill the ground as they are at the moment. It seems to me that it is imperative that we stay in the Prem for at least two seasons to get the extra parachute payments should the worst happen.

To talk of us creating a dynasty in the Prem seems more of a sound byte than reality.

 

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Imagine pitching the idea of investing in Norwich to a panel of multi billionaires in a Dragon’s Den format....

We’d like you to invest in an asset-rich, provincial football club that needs a new stand. The only catch is you probably won’t see a return on that until after you die.’ 

I’d probably give it some thought then politely decline.

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31 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

So definitely not a rush job? Could we have held out for more or needed the cash ASAP. Things happened very quickly on that eventful Saturday afternoon. 

I think there's certainly a good chance we could have held out for more - towards the end of the window with teams panicking not getting their initial targets in, we might have got closer to £40 million.

As you suggest in saying we needed the cash - the problem is selling Emi late would require really late action from ourselves in the window, also likely paying OTT prices so the result isn't really that different at the end of it!

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think there's certainly a good chance we could have held out for more - towards the end of the window with teams panicking not getting their initial targets in, we might have got closer to £40 million.

As you suggest in saying we needed the cash - the problem is selling Emi late would require really late action from ourselves in the window, also likely paying OTT prices so the result isn't really that different at the end of it!

It’s all hypothetical now but you make a decent counter argument. Onwards and upwards. 

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27 minutes ago, Segura said:

Imagine pitching the idea of investing in Norwich to a panel of multi billionaires in a Dragon’s Den format....

We’d like you to invest in an asset-rich, provincial football club that needs a new stand. The only catch is you probably won’t see a return on that until after you die.’ 

I’d probably give it some thought then politely decline.

Or a club with a rich heritage, loyal support, a one county club with potential to be a fixture in the top flight of English football & the worlds most watched league, with the riches that affords (£170m a year?) A new stand could see gates increase to 40'000 a game and lots of work already done on the match day covers. £50m all yours... Ps unlike most clubs no debt.

Let me think.... I'm in!

 

 

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Given that the Club has been so successful in expanding its commercial income, why could it not tap into some of those sources for Capital development such as ground expansion?

This is the kind of evolution rather than revolution strategy we could have.

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6 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

Or a club with a rich heritage, loyal support, a one county club with potential to be a fixture in the top flight of English football & the worlds most watched league, with the riches that affords (£170m a year?) A new stand could see gates increase to 40'000 a game and lots of work already done on the match day covers. £50m all yours... Ps unlike most clubs no debt.

Let me think.... I'm in!

 

 

Premier League t/o for us in a non-covid year is nearer £130m.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think there's certainly a good chance we could have held out for more - towards the end of the window with teams panicking not getting their initial targets in, we might have got closer to £40 million.

As you suggest in saying we needed the cash - the problem is selling Emi late would require really late action from ourselves in the window, also likely paying OTT prices so the result isn't really that different at the end of it!

This. With big bells on. If we had sold Buendia for £50m, say - do you really think other clubs wouldn't honk their prices up a bit knowing we have that burning a hole in our pockets?

Edited by TheGunnShow

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1 hour ago, Badger said:

I may be wrong, but I think that it would be illegal not to go public if there was an offer for shares. You would be preventing other shareholders from taking up the offer.

People always forget Smith &Jones only hold 61% of the share.  There's a sizeable minority who have a right to information on such a move.  Nothing stop them selling their shares though .....

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48 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Except that every word of that is untrue. Quote me one single person who has said "all investment is bad and our self-funded model is the only way forward". No one has said that. What many of us have said is that the self-funded model has proved to be the best model for City in recent years because as yet there has been no suitable wealthy investor who has come along and demonstrated he/she has the best interests of the club as their absolute priority. We are one of the few English clubs in football that is genuinely solvent, we have witnessed some of the most fantastic football in living memory, we have assembled squads of the most talented (multi-million pound) players we have seen, and we find ourselves again in the PL. All that has been achieved through a brilliant employment of the self-funding model. I would argue that's a pretty damn fine justification for pursuing the current approach we are taking.

I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy investors out there very interested in NCFC. I also suspect that their real interest is in our rich portfolio of very saleable assets ripe for stripping. When a wealthy investor comes along and demonstrably proves their interest is genuinely in the best interests of the club's survival and progression, then I'll be happy to move on to another model. Sans such an investor I'm indeed a happy clapper for the current self-funding set up.

No it's not untrue. It's my opinion just as and I quote...

"I'm sure there are plenty of wealthy investors out there very interested in NCFC. I also suspect that their real interest is in our rich portfolio of very saleable assets ripe for stripping"

It's your opinion, I can not say its true or nor can you as it is not factual based. This is a forum to discuss opinions. Mine is the current owners are not seeking any investment or looking for investment. Big businesses that succeed, have always actively sought investment. That my friend is 100% accurate.

I'd rather refrain from the happy clapper & vice versa sh*te and just have it as fans who disagree, think differently. 

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3 minutes ago, Fuzzar said:

Premier League t/o for us in a non-covid year is nearer £130m.

Extra sponsership, shirt sales, ticket sales, revenue stream abroad.... £130 is just TV money

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Just now, Kenny Foggo said:

Extra sponsership, shirt sales, ticket sales, revenue stream abroad.... £130 is just TV money

TV money was £99m for the bottom placed team, minus a rebate due to Covid - feel free to look it up in the accounts, which is what I did...

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51 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Obviously we’ll never know but some of us believe Villa got a bargain. 

It might well turn out to be a bargain - but that is not the point really is it? He wanted to go and nobody was prepared to pay as much as Villa - you can only sell for what people are prepared to pay.

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8 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

People always forget Smith &Jones only hold 61% of the share.  There's a sizeable minority who have a right to information on such a move.  Nothing stop them selling their shares though .....

A better option for the club would be to create new shares. That way the club would get all the new money.

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2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

It absolutely does follow that the club is not open to outside investment. They are not. Except maybe if it involves giving them lots of money for no control. 
 

 

Capt Pants has been asked for evidence regarding his opinion, so I think you should provide a link as evidence in support of your opinion.............

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Generally the only investment anyone makes in any football club is to feed their own ego.... or to prevent it from going bust.

The is no financial gain from investing in a football club.

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3 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

It's our business plan, and whether you agree with it or not, it should be applauded we have been so successful sticking to it.

Waiting for the opposition to fail is not a bad strategy to be honest.

The point remains that no one wants to invest in Norwich City.

I’ve been thinking about the money in football since the super league hit the news. I had no idea how desperate most of these big clubs were for money. I concluded that the money bubble will eventually pop and well run clubs like us will prosper while clubs spending everything they earn on wages will be in huge trouble. I think COVID might be that pin as there seems to be a real lack of big transfers

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4 minutes ago, hertfordyellow said:

I’ve been thinking about the money in football since the super league hit the news. I had no idea how desperate most of these big clubs were for money. I concluded that the money bubble will eventually pop and well run clubs like us will prosper while clubs spending everything they earn on wages will be in huge trouble. I think COVID might be that pin as there seems to be a real lack of big transfers

Barcelona are desperately trying to sell anyone they can to fund the new contract for Messi.

That to me seems like no way to run a club. Messi is getting on and past his best so why invest the whole future of the club in one player?

I suspect the bubble has already started to deflate and maybe players are finding it harder to get paid the silly money they once could, Villa excepted.

Wolves and Everton owners have invested very large sums of money in recent years to get into that top 4 clubs and neither have won anyhthing and both now appear to be on a  decline.

Villa ia a disaster waiting to happen.

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47 minutes ago, Kenny Foggo said:

This is a forum to discuss opinions. Mine is the current owners are not seeking any investment or looking for investment.

So you are saying that Delia and Michael have actually lied to fans when they said that is precisely what they have done.

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1 hour ago, Segura said:

Imagine pitching the idea of investing in Norwich to a panel of multi billionaires in a Dragon’s Den format....

We’d like you to invest in an asset-rich, provincial football club that needs a new stand. The only catch is you probably won’t see a return on that until after you die.’ 

I’d probably give it some thought then politely decline.

I was thinking about the Dragons Den analogy but only to say that in the real world that doesn't exist and there isn't 4 or 5 of them in the wings with money to burn and asking if we have a patent on the swivel screen.

Obviously this isn't a statement of fact, but likewise I'm not aware of a serious investor having come forward but happy to be corrected on that.

The bit in bold is in my opinion the reason why we're not an attractive investment , the current business is a bit too good. They're 4 or 5 years too late compared to where we are now. You won't get NCFC for £50m and then you'd have to invest a further £100m plus on players to get a club which even then could be relegated.

Just to add I'm not precious over our ownership model, but can't see there is a viable alternative in our current state. 

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I think some fans may also fail to grasp that the amount of money it would take to buy Norwich, re-vamp Carrow Road and then push the team on the next level (which in my eyes that is Prem stability, challenging for a cup) would be absolutely HUGE.

This fact immediately limits the number and quality of would-be owners, particularly post Covid.

It is my view, that the type of people wealthy enough to buy into NCFC are far more interested in blasting themselves into space in giant c##k shaped rockets.

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16 minutes ago, Segura said:

I think some fans may also fail to grasp that the amount of money it would take to buy Norwich, re-vamp Carrow Road and then push the team on the next level (which in my eyes that is Prem stability, challenging for a cup) would be absolutely HUGE.

This fact immediately limits the number and quality of would-be owners, particularly post Covid.

It is my view, that the type of people wealthy enough to buy into NCFC are far more interested in blasting themselves into space in giant c##k shaped rockets.

Exactly! And precisely why we should be wary of asset strippers. An awful lot of money could be made out of Norwich by selling off the real estate, luckily Delia and Michael have refused to entertain bids from "investors" like that. Yet it is hard to see how money could be made by spending the £100/200million plus required to take us to the next level. Strangely, beneficent billionaires don't seem to be knocking the CR gates down.

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I find the ownership debate highly interesting (it’s enough to temp me out of lurking this site for many years and on the message board). 

To me it’s interesting in that, like so many things in life, there aren’t really any answers. More like sets of circumstances eg – if you take this approach, this might happen etc etc. 

I admire the Smiths for what they have achieved during their tenure. To simply have owned a large-ish football club for over a quarter of a century, steering it through some pretty turbulent times, is a huge feat in itself. 

They clearly love the club and I’m loathed to criticise them. As someone who failed with a small business venture, it would be a bit rich for me to point fingers at a couple who have survived in one of the most cut-throat and volatile industries for so long. 

But I’m not precious about them being owners – they have so far failed to establish NCFC as a prem team and my real bugbear, is the lack of development of Carrow Road. 

So if a very wealthy would-be owner came along, outlined how they would achieve these aims and could back that up with necessary resources - I’d be all for it. 

As said, it is my belief that such an individual/group doesn’t currently exist, but I’d be delighted to be proved wrong on that.  

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