In case you've all forgotten... a reasoned argument

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

We were in this position the year before we went up. We all had high expectations after reaching the play-offs and it didn''t quite work out. West Ham and others have experienced the same on the way down.

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it:

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics.

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="King Juan of Spain"]

We were in this position the year before we went up. We all had high expectations after reaching the play-offs and it didn''t quite work out. West Ham and others have experienced the same on the way down.

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it:

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics.

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.

[/quote]

OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dubious goal that had been coming all match!!!!!!!!!!!! we were f''ing useless im afraid.  If we had played Preston/Reading/Watford we would have got completely walloped!!

Norwich gave us nothing to cheer about all match - i cant chear when i see a long ball hoofed up to teh shortest player in the division playing with his back to goal with a giant behind him.....  he ended up playing like ashton!! and deano didnt like that in the first place!!!!!

Learn from his mistakes - he signs a load of defensive midfielders in the summer - we fail, so he signs another defensive midfielder!! My biggest problem with worthy is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes....  if he wants to play long ball he should have paid 100,000 for Alan Lee not 3 million for rob earnshaw.  With lee in the side we would have had more chance of winning sunday.......

[Captain Obvious 1]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"][quote user="King Juan of Spain"]

We were in this position the year before we went up. We all had high expectations after reaching the play-offs and it didn''t quite work out. West Ham and others have experienced the same on the way down.

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it:

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics.

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.

[/quote]

OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dubious goal that had been coming all match!!!!!!!!!!!! we were f''ing useless im afraid.  If we had played Preston/Reading/Watford we would have got completely walloped!!

Norwich gave us nothing to cheer about all match - i cant chear when i see a long ball hoofed up to teh shortest player in the division playing with his back to goal with a giant behind him.....  he ended up playing like ashton!! and deano didnt like that in the first place!!!!!

Learn from his mistakes - he signs a load of defensive midfielders in the summer - we fail, so he signs another defensive midfielder!! My biggest problem with worthy is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes....  if he wants to play long ball he should have paid 100,000 for Alan Lee not 3 million for rob earnshaw.  With lee in the side we would have had more chance of winning sunday.......

[/quote]I watched the game on sunday, and we didn''t play that well, but you can''t honestly believe that all the WO chants don''t have any kind of negative impact on the team.tell me this: - If the team doesn''t get something right, what do you think its best to do?A) Boo them and chant WO so they feel worse and lose confidence and play too defensivelyB) Get behind them and cheer them on, encourage them to get forward and give it their allWorthy doesn''t like playing route 1 football, the players most likely do it because thier low on confidence because thier scared to make a mistake or lose the ball because of the way the fans will react........its another way of looking at it rather than it all being worthy''s fault.Since the players have often said that positive chanting helps them a lot, i''m willing to accept that the fans may be partially to blame for low confidence and defensive football.

[Cantiaci Canary 556]

Your Highness I agree with a lot of your sentiments but I cannot accept your point about things being the fans'' fault. At the end of the day the players are the jesters and we are the knights. We pay a lot of money and often travel great distances to watch these millionaires and when you sit down in a local derby at home with three new signings in the team ALL you want to see is a Norwich City side playing with determination, fight, intelligence, passion and guts. When you sit watching your team thoroughly outplayed by a rival group of players lacking in quality and form but performing with buckets loads of eagerness, drive and persistance it is very difficult to start singing.

I think Carrow Road would have been booming for 90 minutes if we lost 3-0 but the players had scrapped for all their worth from beginning to end.

Derby day was not good enough and that is because the millionaires failed to fulfil the easiest demand - fight.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Stephen Miller"][quote user="Paul Rankin"][quote user="King Juan of Spain"]

We were in this position the year before we went up. We all had high expectations after reaching the play-offs and it didn''t quite work out. West Ham and others have experienced the same on the way down.

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it:

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics.

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.

[/quote]

OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dubious goal that had been coming all match!!!!!!!!!!!! we were f''ing useless im afraid.  If we had played Preston/Reading/Watford we would have got completely walloped!!

Norwich gave us nothing to cheer about all match - i cant chear when i see a long ball hoofed up to teh shortest player in the division playing with his back to goal with a giant behind him.....  he ended up playing like ashton!! and deano didnt like that in the first place!!!!!

Learn from his mistakes - he signs a load of defensive midfielders in the summer - we fail, so he signs another defensive midfielder!! My biggest problem with worthy is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes....  if he wants to play long ball he should have paid 100,000 for Alan Lee not 3 million for rob earnshaw.  With lee in the side we would have had more chance of winning sunday.......

[/quote]

I watched the game on sunday, and we didn''t play that well, but you can''t honestly believe that all the WO chants don''t have any kind of negative impact on the team.
tell me this: -
If the team doesn''t get something right, what do you think its best to do?
A) Boo them and chant WO so they feel worse and lose confidence and play too defensively
B) Get behind them and cheer them on, encourage them to get forward and give it their all

Worthy doesn''t like playing route 1 football, the players most likely do it because thier low on confidence because thier scared to make a mistake or lose the ball because of the way the fans will react........
its another way of looking at it rather than it all being worthy''s fault.
Since the players have often said that positive chanting helps them a lot, i''m willing to accept that the fans may be partially to blame for low confidence and defensive football.
[/quote]

Nigel Worthington''s managerial career started unspectacularly as player/manager at Blackpool at the beginning of the 1997/98 season. He soon retired from playing to take on sole managerial duties, but two and a half seasons in charge ended with his resignation following a worrying dip in form that saw the club lying in the thick of the Second Division relegation battle. He had little sympathy from the fans on his departure who accused him of adopting a long-ball game.

Deja Vu mate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Worthington

[0peteddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

The number of so called City supporters prepared to accept sub standard football is extremely worrying.  Did you see City take on Bayern Munich or Inter Milan, a team of journeyman and youngsters who produced exciting football.  Not seen much since this vintage.

Are you really prepared for the mediocrity of the last 5 years for perhaps a season''s flirtation with the Big Boys or maybe you don''t recognise or appreciate good football.

[Captain Obvious 1]

[quote user="Paul Rankin"][quote user="Stephen Miller"][quote user="Paul Rankin"][quote user="King Juan of Spain"]

We were in this position the year before we went up. We all had high expectations after reaching the play-offs and it didn''t quite work out. West Ham and others have experienced the same on the way down.

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it:

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics.

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.

[/quote]

OUR FAULT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dubious goal that had been coming all match!!!!!!!!!!!! we were f''ing useless im afraid.  If we had played Preston/Reading/Watford we would have got completely walloped!!

Norwich gave us nothing to cheer about all match - i cant chear when i see a long ball hoofed up to teh shortest player in the division playing with his back to goal with a giant behind him.....  he ended up playing like ashton!! and deano didnt like that in the first place!!!!!

Learn from his mistakes - he signs a load of defensive midfielders in the summer - we fail, so he signs another defensive midfielder!! My biggest problem with worthy is that he doesnt learn from his mistakes....  if he wants to play long ball he should have paid 100,000 for Alan Lee not 3 million for rob earnshaw.  With lee in the side we would have had more chance of winning sunday.......

[/quote]

I watched the game on sunday, and we didn''t play that well, but you can''t honestly believe that all the WO chants don''t have any kind of negative impact on the team.
tell me this: -
If the team doesn''t get something right, what do you think its best to do?
A) Boo them and chant WO so they feel worse and lose confidence and play too defensively
B) Get behind them and cheer them on, encourage them to get forward and give it their all

Worthy doesn''t like playing route 1 football, the players most likely do it because thier low on confidence because thier scared to make a mistake or lose the ball because of the way the fans will react........
its another way of looking at it rather than it all being worthy''s fault.
Since the players have often said that positive chanting helps them a lot, i''m willing to accept that the fans may be partially to blame for low confidence and defensive football.
[/quote]

Nigel Worthington''s managerial career started unspectacularly as player/manager at Blackpool at the beginning of the 1997/98 season. He soon retired from playing to take on sole managerial duties, but two and a half seasons in charge ended with his resignation following a worrying dip in form that saw the club lying in the thick of the Second Division relegation battle. He had little sympathy from the fans on his departure who accused him of adopting a long-ball game.

Deja Vu mate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Worthington

[/quote]

Hasn''t anyone ever questioned his tactics at those fans meetings like the one in sheringham?
The man is a professional, very knowledgable in football and tactics, i doubt he''d be stupid enough to make the same mistake twice....the guy isn''t blind he can surely see that the team isn''t performing with the long ball and discourages it, because no manager wants thier team to lose - i heard that the players aparently move the ball around and pass well in training but not in games (confidence issue, maybe [^o)]).
the amount of control a manager has of a team when thier on the pitch is limited

[Paul Aldrich 0]

I would agree with some of what you say (Injuries and no point sacking NW now). Whilst NW can not do much about injuries, he has a lot to do with the quality of the players that have ben brought into the club (Hughes, Etuhu) and has also had a hand in some of the players that left the club (Eddie and Malky).  To have a go at the fans is laughable, 24-25,000 for home games, and a good away following for a team performing so badly is superb. I just wonder if you were at the Ippo game, yes the first goal was deflected from a free kick that should not have been given and yes the second goal was punched in, but we were played off the park by a very ordinary team and had they scored 3 or 4 it would have been a fair reflection of the game. The second goal was in fact about two minutes from the end of normal time, and there were four minutes of added time, did we lay siege to the Ippo goal for those four minutes ?, the one free kick we did get was wasted (mayb we should concentrate on set pieces rather than on fitness), in fact if Ippo had not been content to run the clock down it was more likely they would score a third. I see posters on here going on about losing players, new players coming in and injuries, well dare I say it take a closer look at our "friends" down the A140, the heart has been ripped out of their side and been replaced by kids, journeymen supplemented by veterans and no hopers, they too have had their fair share of injuries yet they are above us in the league, personally, and it pains me to say it,  I think they have a better manager, coaches and academy set up (in that they actually use it).

[maninyellowslacks 0]

Now before the Rankins and Wizards of you start foaming at the mouth, we should take stock of what''s happening. Whilst Worthy''s tactics and decisions have been dubious, we still cannot avoid the fact that we have had 88 injuries this season already. But there is more to it: Why have we had substantially more injuries than other teams?

We have also had a ton of new players - not the ''same squad of last year'' that everyone keeps bleating on about. We lost players in key positions and Worthy/the board have pretty much failed to fill them. However, this coupled with injuries cannot make for a good, balanced side with balanced tactics. Worthy/the board has failed to fill them.Nobody else can do it so if they don''t that''s a bit of a problem.This is probably the only thing that I could accept in his defence but I am not convinced the players are the problem but that it is the way in which they are managed. 

The Huckerby factor: he is only any good when his ten team mates are able to carry him. We weigh so much of our play on him that the rest of the team have to mop up behind him, and if that team is different every week, it aint going to happen. We have to accept this as part of the reason we haven''t done well this season.We know it, if worthy doesn''t then another negative point and if he does and doesn''t alter the play or team to balance this then another negative point.

Finally, expectation. The crowd (yes, you and me) have had a tiny taster of success and we are desperate for more. Yet 18 months ago we were all saying we''d go straight back down. Granted, we didn''t expect what''s happened, but if we had been able to field pretty much the same team for the first 10 games, don''t you think our (the crowd) confidence would have pushed the new players on to gel? Instead, we''ve been moaning at them from day one. We have behaved like spoilt children.I cannot recall a game pre Luton that was in any way negatively supported (aside from the odd groan for a misplaced pass). Well above average crowds with vociferous support and excellent away following who support all through the game. If a team of professional players and manager in this league cannot get fired up on the level of support that they got before they started to dissapoint then they are in the wrong job. Spolit children are so as they demand what they can''t have and then react when they don''t get it.I want a team that plays like they mean it, win lose or draw. It is the performance that I demand NOT THE RESULT. When we played Chelsea in the cup here and held them that is what I want to see of my team for 90 minutes a week, we then lost 4-0 we still played well but they were better than us-simple. We have not lost to anyone better than us this season we have lost because we did not play as we should and that is different.

I''ve always had my doubts about Worthy - I''m not sure he is tactically adept enough to take us any further, but we cannot deny that when he''s had the players he wants, we''ve done well. I hope he''s learnt lessons, as any newish manager should (and he is still fairly inexperienced in the broad scheme of things), such as not picking Gary Holt or getting over his obsession with defensive midfielders, and I hope the board has learnt its lessons (and they aren''t that experienced either) and will insist this summer that we strengthen the spine of the team - with a good defender, attacking midfielder and someone to play with Earnshaw.I would question whether he has learnt anything, his use of players out of position when others in position are available has not changed, his odd use of substitutions at times has not changed,not playing the best players because he doesn''t like them has not changed,style of play against the opposition does not often change and when it does not work that takes too long to change. Use of younger players no change there.

Right now, we aren''t going up. Fine. Let''s accept that. There is no point in sacking Worthy right now, because no new manger would take us up this season either. Unless we suddenly find ourselves with a fully fit and gelling squad in the next few weeks that still show no signs of improvement by the end of the season, my thought would be to give him another season. Let him learn by his mistakes. It''s not like he can''t hear us telling him what they are. This would be fine if this were remotely possible but this is not a slight blip it is an absolutely disastrous season of vast under achievement. I do not think that any of the teams above us have a better team or better players on the whole but they have a team spirit that we have failed to show for most of the season.We must not forget as well that this is coupled with an under achieved season in the prem, some different players admittedly but a similiar approach to the play as determined by the manager.

And let''s have a little more patience than singing ''Worthy out'' only seconds after a dubious goal has given the Binners the lead in a game with 10 mminutes left to play. If those who were singing that had devoted as much energy to roaring the team on, we might have at least got an equalizer. But no, the players looked like they wanted to get off the pitch as quickly as possible, and that is OUR FAULT.The players did not look like they wanted to be on the pitch full stop and the second dubious goal was on the cards from 10 minutes into the game as we, as a team, had no interest in attacking that game at all. We were spineless,lacked any creativity at all and failed to close down the opposition throughout. This is not down to the fans. If you want negative fans go to Villa, Boro, Newcastle,Blackburn,Sunderland,Wolves,Ipswich all known for getting at the team early on if not going their way or for expecting success as they are ''big club''.I think this club is fortunate to have the patience within the fans that they enjoy and that they do not reward this well enough.

 

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

Hasn''t anyone ever questioned his tactics at those fans meetings like the one in sheringham?
The man is a professional, very knowledgable in football and tactics, i doubt he''d be stupid enough to make the same mistake twice....the guy isn''t blind he can surely see that the team isn''t performing with the long ball and discourages it, because no manager wants thier team to lose - i heard that the players aparently move the ball around and pass well in training but not in games (confidence issue, maybe ).
the amount of control a manager has of a team when thier on the pitch is limited

So worthy cant inspire confidednce in the players to beleive in their undoubted ability - maybe its time to bring in a manager who can??  as for the amount of control?  have you ever watched Bolton play (or even Watford).  The players have clearly defined roles and jobs.  Something you dont get here with the manager playing left backs in midfield whilst real midfielders wait on the bench.

 

[whoareyou? 0]

I personally think the heart was ripped out of the current set up at Fulham in May.We gave up that day!!! Since then we have looked a pale comparison of before. What has happened to that '' never say die'' attitude we had just last season? We got praises from some unlikley quarters for that last year(Hansen et al) but it hasn''t been seen once this season..

Sometimes i think you have to accept that change is the only answer. New ideas and new people. Whether that is just the coaching staff or the manager as well, only time will tell.

[charlies dad 0]

Pure genius! It was the old guy in the barclays fault we lost on Sunday. The little girl in the family stand was to blame for QPR and  Watford. And the disgraceful lack of marking and tracking back in the river end is to blame for REading Birmingham Millwall Crewe etc etc etc... We should all be ashamed of ourselves, we are letting the players down! B#####cks.

[Dicky 0]

A rarity - a well balanced and well thought out post.  Totally agree with the last point about negative chants with 10 minutes left.

No suprise that a certain poster has felt the need to respond 3 times!

[Captain Obvious 1]

[quote user="pete"]

The number of so called City supporters prepared to accept sub standard football is extremely worrying.  Did you see City take on Bayern Munich or Inter Milan, a team of journeyman and youngsters who produced exciting football.  Not seen much since this vintage.

Are you really prepared for the mediocrity of the last 5 years for perhaps a season''s flirtation with the Big Boys or maybe you don''t recognise or appreciate good football.

[/quote]Of course i would like to see good and exciting football at carrow road, but to expect nothing less than that is extemely unrealistic. I''m not sure i understand the point you''re trying to make here - are you saying we should sack worthy because we would definately get back to our glory days with someone else?or are you slating our current squad because they can''t produce the same kind of football that was being produced when we were leading the premiership?

[Paul Aldrich 0]

Dicky if you are going to have a pop it would be helpful if you got your facts straight, the "We want Worthy out" chants started after Ippo scored the winner which was timed at 88 minutes, I only got CSE Grade 3 maths but even I know that 90 minus 88 is 2, at that point nobody would have known how much added time there was.

[Citizen Journalist Foghorn 0]

[quote user="Dicky"]

A rarity - a well balanced and well thought out post.  Totally agree with the last point about negative chants with 10 minutes left.

No suprise that a certain poster has felt the need to respond 3 times!

[/quote]

So its noones fault this season of unbeleivable underacheivement - lets hope we get a few more points eh otherwise this could end up being our worst season for 30 years...  no win in 6..... including 5 defeats...  star striker gone...... more loans....

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

Well that got you going...

My point was that last ten minutes against Ipswich, regardless of how bad we were, should have been spent roaring the boys on. I completely agree that if you want to sing ''Worthy out'', then do so, but preferably after the game or if we are 4-0 down. It was a poor game which we still could have got a point from - after all, we scored against the run of play - and, as someone said, it can''t have made the players feel any less negative than they were already. 

There is no suggestion that the team''s poor performance over the season is our fault - if you''re too thick to realise that then maybe you should join the Binners - just that many of you seem to think that just because we beat a few teams who had nothing to play for at the end of the premiership, you reserved the right to moan from game one. And let''s face it, it happens, whether you choose to hear it or not. In my 20 years as a season ticket holder I have never heard so many people moan so quickly at the start of a season, and it is a shame.

Just to clear up a few accusations: I was at the Ipswich game, have been to every one in the last 15 years home and away etc etc etc. I am not prepared to accept sub-standard football when I remember the Inter days, but let''s remember Mike Walker brought us some seriously sub-standard football in his second tenure. Worthy has brought us some equally splendid football as well as the dross being played right now. Whilst I agree in principal, I''d question Mr Rankin''s protests about playing left backs in midfield and ''leaving real midfielders on the bench'' when he, along with many, are just as quick to criticise ''real midfielders'' who had only made 6 half-injured starts (Jason Jarett).

Mainlyyellowslacks, whilst I think you make some good points, you say "I think this club is fortunate to have the patience within the fans that they enjoy and that they do not reward this well enough." Well, one look at this board disproves that theory.

And finally, I have to say I think the quality of players brought in this season (apart from last week) HAS been pretty damn poor. But surely the sensible way would be to do this (as a board member): See it through to the end of the season, sound out the senior players (do we still have any of them?), look at who Worthy wants and make the right decision as to whether he''s taking the club in the right direction, or if he''s gone as far as he can. I have a feeling he has gone as far as he can, but I think we should just see the season out, relax, let the players find their form and build some confidence going into the new season. Moaning mid-game, unless we''re being thrashed, isn''t going to help anyone and it just serves to turn us all against each other.

OTBC

[EadiesRight Foot 0]

Gilo / Your Highness,

A articulate, well written post, with salient points, until the point you say....."give him another season".

What????

This man is taking us backwards - the signings bear witness to this. Injuries dont really stand up - our best players have been fit for most of this season - The Doc, Greeno, Hucks, Ashton, and Safri (minus niggles). Its the dross that makes up the numbers that is why we are utterly inept.

I accept we arent going up - I just want us to say Thanks to Worthy at the end of the season. And replace him with a young ambitious manager in his places (boothroyd, newell, etc).

He has failed in the last two seasons, which is pretty clear. I am not sure where all this acceptance of mediocrity has come about. Why should we put up with abject, abysmal unispired lame long ball performances in the hope that, oooh, maybe if we get Paul Ince, Mike Milligan or Shaun Carey, things will get better. Actually, I think Peter Grant is still knocking around - maybe he is the answer?

Sorry, the way things are going, this club isnt going forward. the signings over the last 2 seasons (bar Ashton, and Earnie) have been poo. They have all left  - and no one has impressed, with the exceptiong of The Doc - but if we went up, it remains to be seen how good he will be.

And in this respect, we need to get a whole new broom in at the end of the season, and start afresh if we want to see our club challenging for promotion next season.

[maninyellowslacks 0]

King Juan

 

Whilst I would agree that this board has a decidedly negative slant currently it is because of our current plight that this is so and people are frustrated at that position and the length of time that it appears to have continued.

I think as fans we are patient as opposed to the teams that I detailed in my original post, we do not winge and moan immediately and I think have been longer in the acceptance of the failings that are now escalating than lots of other fans would be.

It is true that the board (message) is full of negativity but that is because people see no light at the end of the tunnel and not because they are moaners.

I would cite examples like Wolves,Sunderland and Villa where they constantly believe that their big club status means that they should be in the top league and maon constantly on every media you care to mention when this does not happen.Villa are always calling for the head of Doug Ellis yet have not suffered a real relegation issue in some time and I am sure that most fans would swop places with them to get premier status albeit mid table. 

I would reiterate my original point regarding the fans that Delia and co have enjoyed a unique loyalty that I do not believe is readily represented elsewhere and I would hate to see this position change and I think it is fair to say that the current negativity aimed toward those responsible and it is at those responsible is fair and just.I think messrs Worthy and co have had a long time to change the attitude within the team and have failed to do so and that is because the players are wrong or the leaders are wrong. Some of the players have changed so maybe it is time to change other things.

[gazzathegreat 0]

King, I always look out for your posts and though we don''t often agree, I want to go through your viewpoints and try, and I mean it to discuss each rationally. For a female anyway.

The first one - 88 injuries, forgive me as I am no statto or collector of canary related facts, but have we ever had that many before in one season, and it''s not over yet.  I would dearly like to know who/when each relates to as obviously something should be done, if at all possible to keep these down! 

The new players coming in, okay so we haven''t had a balanced team who know each other, but that is mostly down to managerial decisions. Yes, we have had injuries, but to compensate for that, we should have been able to provide cover in all positions.  The only position well covered is that of goalie! 

Hucks is simply not the player he was two years ago.  He may have lost some pace, he''s older or it might just be a hunger thing, he''s not so keen to impress anymore. whatever it is he''s not a matchwinner as he used to be.  Having said that, when he gets the chance to blend in with the forward line he''s better than most in this league, as I see it, this season he has had to track back, or been expected to as we have been very lightweight in centre midfield. Added to that opposing managers have either marked him out of the game.  Our tactics of using either balls to him, or hoofing it to the CF are well known and the surprise tactics of the championship year are no longer there.

I can only speak for myself regarding expectations and during Nigel''s reign have not expected the world, to be honest.  We have taken a long time to move forward on the field, due to our financial position and promotion was unexpected, yes.  What I didn''t expect was the tactics and gameplans used in the Premiership and the club''s expectations that we would probably fail and be relegated.  West Ham and Wigan have shown us it is possible to survive your first season in the Prem. My expectations this season, given the factors of the squad we went down with, the money from the Prem etc was for at least a play off spot.  Is that unrealistic given we had Green, Safri, Ashton, Drury and Hucks? 

I am with you given Worthy''s naive or ineffective tactics - especially his over reliance on defensive midfields and his use of favoured playes in the Prem rather than technically better team mates.  I am left thinking would we still be there if he had made more use of Jonson, Bentley, Helveg and Safri?  I am not too sure about getting the players he wants relating to us doing well.  Does this include the present summer signings?  We do need urgently, an attacking midfielder, yes, agreed.  As we do need a class right back and right winger. 

No we''re not going up and to be honest with you King, I thought this in September, yes, a bit early to judge you might say, but maybe even then I could see that the team were not gelling, we just weren''t going to do it.  Added to that the awful standard of football on display.  We haven''t produced any great football this year, we have had numerous no shows, the team it''s alledged by the manager won''t play the tactics or style he wants.  So if they won''t play for him, will they do it for someone else?  The big question, yes.  I think they would.  We have, now a fully fit squad bar Mckenzie don''t we?  We have had many no shows, awful performances with Worthy''s first choice eleven out there. 

I would prefer to put a caretaker manager in right now, IMO Dave Willams from the academy and try and bring in someone else in the close season.  My only criteria for new manager is that they will get us back to playing proper Norwich City football again.  Who would I like?  Boothroyd, Bowen, Newell? 

Your last point re the booing, Worthy Out chanting.  It probably took a defeat at the hands of the old enemy to rouse many fans to sing it.  The players however had turned in many other dire performances when nothing has been chanted, indeed before being booed off.  These players need to accept they are in a highly paid job with some degree of responsibility both to the club and the fans to turn in an acceptable performance given the pay packet they pick up.  Contrary to your opinion, I think the fans as a whole have been too patient!  And the board are currently playing on that very fact.  Where else in this league do we witness full houses, given the number of games we have seen this season which resemble a decent match?  We are loyal and true supporters and it''s only now, after a truly shocking season when many of us are saying, enough.  Time to change things and move on.  I have been to most home games this year and been lucky enough to witness some truly memorable (for all the wrong reasons) away games such as Stoke, Watford, Luton, Leicester and Reading.  After all that I am still prepared to give my vocal support for 90 minutes.  MY fault, I don''t think so.  And I doubt the players think it''s ours either. 

Hope this answers your points King, nice to see you back on here btw....

 

[Infamy, Infamy 0]

A very well thought through post King Juan. But don''t expect the "Worthy Out" hysteria to abate just yet!

[0King Juan of SpainddMMyyyy0Falseen-USTrue 0]

You know what, it''s really nice to read some articulate, well thought out posts and most of these have been arguments that I can certainly appreciate even if I don''t necessarily agree with. It''s nice to have a debate rather than the slanging matches we see too often on here at the mo.

Whatever we feel, I think we can all probably agree that the club is in a sorry state at the moment, and when I look back to that day outside City Hall (which the Guardian''s David Lacey described as "probably the most fulfilling sight you''ll ever see in football"), it seems such a shame that, through whatever combination of events and/or mismanagement, we haven''t been able to build on it.

Here''s hoping.

OTBC