2 jabs to attend matches?

[1902 1,167]

Just now, TeemuVanBasten said:

Small Pox vaccinations were made mandatory at a time when 1 in 7 men had the right to vote, and 0 women had the right to vote.

So I mean, applying that logic then we aren't entitled to any of our civil liberties or privileges because at some stage in the distant part there were some terribly oppressed people who didn't have them.

The price that is paid by those who decide not to vaccinate is a much more serious illness when they inevitably become infected with Covid, like most of us will, and that is their problem.

I was reacting to your argument that the fact that speeding had always been illegal since the invention of the car meant that this had a legitimacy that compulsory vaccination lacked. Incidentally the speeding law was also passed before the most significant extension of suffrage. 

The last point ignores those who can't be vaccinated or those who are but who do not develop a significant enough response. 

[1902 1,167]

5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...short of people holding you down and sticking a needle in your body....I cant see how it can be mandatory?

In the 1853 act, you were fined for failure to vaccinate your child. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Surely the point is that this virus has shown that it is able to mutate into different variations. Unvaccinated people passing it on to other unvaccinated people will increase the opportunities for a new variation to evolve that is vaccine resistant and we’ll all be back to square one.

Then there will be have to be further restrictions which the anti-vax movement will be on the streets protesting about

I mean, there is also the argument that humans existed for 2 million years without vaccines and no virus had managed to wipe us out.

Just mother natures way of keeping populations to sustainable levels, and perhaps the obsession with preserving life at all costs isn't the best thing for the species or the planet. 

There is only evidence of 1 animal species ever having been wiped out by a virus. There are up to 2 million animal species on the planet.

Coronaviruses cannot be eradicated, in fact they have been around since the 1930s, you are very likely to have had several of them and labelled them a "cold" or "bug".

Vaccinate 100% of people and it is still going nowhere, its not for eradication, then you have to start all over again and offer booster jabs annually? The flu kills too, sometimes quite a lot of people, but the booster jabs are optional and always have been?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

2 minutes ago, 1902 said:

In the 1853 act, you were fined for failure to vaccinate your child. 

...so they paid the fine...still didnt mean they were vaccinated (presumably)?

[Newtopia 517]

I think the young have every right to be pissed.  They were locked down to protect the vulnerable, they are the last to be vaccinated and their social activities are the first to be loaded down.  The oldies are all offer on their recovery holidays because they have had a bad time, but the young can’t travel they aren’t likely to die, yet they are hugely impacted.

[Hairy Canary 668]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I mean, there is also the argument that humans existed for 2 million years without vaccines and no virus had managed to wipe us out.

Just mother natures way of keeping populations to sustainable levels, and perhaps the obsession with preserving life at all costs isn't the best thing for the species or the planet. 

There is only evidence of 1 animal species ever having been wiped out by a virus. There are up to 2 million animal species on the planet.

Coronaviruses cannot be eradicated, in fact they have been around since the 1930s, you are very likely to have had several of them and labelled them a "cold" or "bug".

Vaccinate 100% of people and it is still going nowhere, its not for eradication, then you have to start all over again and offer booster jabs annually? The flu kills too, sometimes quite a lot of people, but the booster jabs are optional and always have been?

why bother with any medical intervention then? Just let Mother Nature keep the population down to sustainable levels as you say. Even simple diseases can end up causing death if left untreated
 

No it can’t be eradicated but as I said, unvaccinated people increase the opportunity for the virus to evolve. 
 

 

[1902 1,167]

11 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

I mean, there is also the argument that humans existed for 2 million years without vaccines and no virus had managed to wipe us out.

Just mother natures way of keeping populations to sustainable levels, and perhaps the obsession with preserving life at all costs isn't the best thing for the species or the planet. 

There is only evidence of 1 animal species ever having been wiped out by a virus. There are up to 2 million animal species on the planet.

Coronaviruses cannot be eradicated, in fact they have been around since the 1930s, you are very likely to have had several of them and labelled them a "cold" or "bug".

Vaccinate 100% of people and it is still going nowhere, its not for eradication, then you have to start all over again and offer booster jabs annually? The flu kills too, sometimes quite a lot of people, but the booster jabs are optional and always have been?

True, but novel viruses have wiped out close to an entire population, we could ask the population of pre Colombian hisponiola if the measles and smallpox hadn't got them first.

Preserving life is a fairly decent policy aim that perhaps trumps nightclubs and carrow road. I'm not sure 'death is good' is a strong position to take in this one.

Edited July 19, 2021 by 1902

[Hairy Canary 668]

3 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

I think the young have every right to be pissed.  They were locked down to protect the vulnerable, they are the last to be vaccinated and their social activities are the first to be loaded down.  The oldies are all offer on their recovery holidays because they have had a bad time, but the young can’t travel they aren’t likely to die, yet they are hugely impacted.

Nobody is impacted any more than someone who dies of the disease.

Edited July 19, 2021 by Hairy Canary

[1902 1,167]

5 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

...so they paid the fine...still didnt mean they were vaccinated (presumably)?

And imprisoned of they couldn't afford it. Still mandatory, and far more draconian than you can't go to a football match without a jab. Not that I'm arguing for victorian justice, just that there is a clear precedent which was what I was originally talking about. 

[Greavsy 2,412]

5 minutes ago, Newtopia said:

I think the young have every right to be pissed.  They were locked down to protect the vulnerable, they are the last to be vaccinated and their social activities are the first to be loaded down.  The oldies are all offer on their recovery holidays because they have had a bad time, but the young can’t travel they aren’t likely to die, yet they are hugely impacted.

Guess you're a youngster, under 40? 

[Newtopia 517]

1 minute ago, Hairy Canary said:

Nobody is impacted any more than someone who dies of the disease.

True - still think the young (upto 30) have been incredibly supportive of the approach, considering they are statistically at a much lower risk.

[Newtopia 517]

Just now, Greavsy said:

Guess you're a youngster, under 40? 

No - wish I was - just think that slice of the population have been incredibly supportive considering how they have been effected financially (most likely to lose their jobs etc) and the least likely to be seriously ill, and lots have not even been offered the vacine yet.

[Greavsy 2,412]

I've had a similar discussion with my lad. 

I think everyone has been affected, some more than others, irrespective of age. 

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,735]

6 minutes ago, 1902 said:

And imprisoned of they couldn't afford it. Still mandatory, and far more draconian than you can't go to a football match without a jab. Not that I'm arguing for victorian justice, just that there is a clear precedent which was what I was originally talking about. 

I dont think in this day and age...at least in this country, it would be possible to physically enforce that a needle containing an unknown substance be injected into a body. For the record , I've had 2 jabs, despite having a severe needle phobia, the only thing that got me through it was having a few whiskeys beforehand and the thought of ever being allowed in a football stadium again..but I could completely understand those who wouldnt go through with it

[Ray 111]

47 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Why is this policy more concerning than say the smoking ban in pubs?  Seatbelts in cars? Health and Safety regulations on who can serve food under what conditions? All of which sacrifice liberty for public safety. Unless you can explain that, I'm not going to feel particularly concerned that I have been brainwashed into giving up the future of my children and grandchildren.

1902, None of the other policies you mention involve having something man made injected into your body, and not only man made but still experimental, that could be why many find this more concerning,

[1902 1,167]

2 minutes ago, GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary said:

I dont think in this day and age...at least in this country, it would be possible to physically enforce that a needle containing an unknown substance be injected into a body. For the record , I've had 2 jabs, despite having a severe needle phobia, the only thing that got me through it was having a few whiskeys beforehand and the thought of ever being allowed in a football stadium again..but I could completely understand those who wouldnt go through with it

I never argued for that. Teemu said that it had never been mandatory to have a vaccine in the UK, I said that was incorrect. Then I was challenged on the details. Thats about it.

[Chelm Canary 404]

What a sad situation that someone has discovered where I live and now making threats against me.

You should be banned. 

 

[1902 1,167]

4 minutes ago, Ray said:

1902, None of the other policies you mention involve having something man made injected into your body, and not only man made but still experimental, that could be why many find this more concerning,

Its not experimental and man made is a loaded phrase that includes every single food we eat. 

[Ray 111]

4 minutes ago, 1902 said:

Its not experimental and man made is a loaded phrase that includes every single food we eat. 

We may need to agree to disagree here 1902 re experimental, however could you explain how an apple picked from a tree or a locust, should I choose to eat one, is man made

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

32 minutes ago, 1902 said:

True, but novel viruses have wiped out close to an entire population, we could ask the population of pre Colombian hisponiola if the measles and smallpox hadn't got them first.

Preserving life is a fairly decent policy aim that perhaps trumps nightclubs and carrow road. I'm not sure 'death is good' is a strong position to take in this one.

SARS is very similar to covid,

Eradicated.

No vaccine.

Just mother nature.

[Commonsense 618]

1 hour ago, Hardhouse44 said:

It’s not just making sure we’ve all had a double jab, it lots of things that will help keep us safe at football.

one for example is the forcing of all prematch pubs to stop serving coffee. This causes the barman/maid to take excessive time preparing the coffee/machine. Causing a build up in the queue at the bar of proper fans wanting beer! This means that coffee in pubs is actually causing fans to push and jostle more in an attempt to get served having had to wait longer. Resulting in closer more prolonged contact with others.

So think! If you want a coffee Fcuk off to Starbucks.

A slogan if ever I’ve seen one.

I laughed out loud at this!!

[Badger 2,405]

5 hours ago, Vazzza said:

I’m of the age where I’ve had my first jab and my 2nd is at the end of August.How anyone can think it’s fair that I’d have to miss the Liverpool game and any other home games before my 2nd jab just because of my age…

The most vulnerable are the older among us so rightly got their jabs first, but now also get their freedom earlier. I think not

Speaking as someone who is near the opposite end of the scale  - got my first  vacc in mid-february, I completely agree with you.

If anybody has to miss out, it should be be those of us that had the chance to get the vaccinations early.

 

[Terminally Yellow 2,448]

2 hours ago, Chelm Canary said:

What a sad situation that someone has discovered where I live and now making threats against me.

You should be banned. 

This is a disgrace. 

[The Real Buh 3,423]

9 hours ago, 1902 said:

That's a terrible argument, unless you can define why vaccinations for football matches are worse that many of the other restrictions we have currently. Saying what's next based on a hypothetical situation of your own making just proves you can envisage worse, it has no bearing on the situation now or even any influence on the future.

Why is this policy more concerning than say the smoking ban in pubs?  Seatbelts in cars? Health and Safety regulations on who can serve food under what conditions? All of which sacrifice liberty for public safety. Unless you can explain that, I'm not going to feel particularly concerned that I have been brainwashed into giving up the future of my children and grandchildren.

There’s no example in history where governments have enacted powers over their citizens and then just given that power back. It just doesn’t happen. This is the new normal. You’ve got your papers to get into pubs, you shop at amazon and every 6 months we shut the country down again because we are trying to “control the virus” because we’ve “still got a long way to go”. This thing usually ends up with a North Korea communist situation or a civil war type situation.

a society where children are told they can’t be close to people they love. Im no psychologist but that’s no good. No good at all.

This is far more complex than “just get the vaccine” and while im Not into the “China did this deliberately” category I’m in the “China benefits massively from this” category

[Foxy2600 297]

8 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

SARS is very similar to covid,

Eradicated.

No vaccine.

Just mother nature.

Err SARS is not anywhere near the size of a corona virus.

You are talking about the symptoms and effect. You could say the same about Flu but that's about 5 times the size but people still get Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) from it. Something on the scale of 40 microns stays in the air, floats on the breeze, remains alive outside its host for up to 17 hours.

Guess your not basing your judgement on anything scientific.

Still - at this rate the minority anti-vaxxers will exercise their Human Right and stop the silent majority who are vaxxed and want to return to CR and Football will be on't telly only.

[CANARYKING 634]

So it could be that the small percentage of unfixed fans will stop everybody else from attending CR ?

[Greavsy 2,412]

1 minute ago, CANARYKING said:

So it could be that the small percentage of unfixed fans will stop everybody else from attending CR ?

Hasn't that always been the case. 

A few fans don't know how to behave at the euro finals, and everyone else suffers, as they look to award the 2030 world cup elsewhere as a result. 

Unfortunately that's how it works. 

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

No-one is being forced to be vaccinated. It is just that those who refuse have to understand they will be a danger to the rest of the population and will need to self isolate, or be forcibly isolated, for however many months or years it takes to beat covid.

[The Real Buh 3,423]

2 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

No-one is being forced to be vaccinated. It is just that those who refuse have to understand they will be a danger to the rest of the population and will need to self isolate, or be forcibly isolated, for however many months or years it takes to beat covid.

Nobody else finds it weird that regular people are now talking like this? Nobody?

[AJ 1,218]

Yeah, I'm not really sure you can force people to be vaccinated. Encourage? Absolutely, but you can't force them and then restrict what they can do using Covid as a reason. Is that not a violation of basic human rights?