Think our squad looks weak

[Capt. Pants 4,195]

The other issue is whether teams likely to be in and around us in the relegation zone have also improved. I haven't been keeping an eye on Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton for example, but you would have thought with 2 years extra TV money they would be stronger.

We might be slightly more stronger than 2 seasons ago but we're starting from a very low base compared to others. A long way to go in this transfer window though.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

I'd say Giannoulis is some way ahead of Lewis, and I'd say the Gibson we have now is better than the Godfrey we had then. Hanley now is far better than the one two years ago, and Aarons has two more years of experience. Not to mention Krul has been largely injury-free and consistent throughout the last three years too. However, recruiting a Lees-Melou, who appears to be a McLean upgrade, tells me we're already looking for more pace and power in the middle of the park as that's where we struggled. Gilmour's not going to be a box-to-box man, he's essentially going to act as an upgrade on Leitner or Vrancic (when the latter was a deep-lying playmaker).

I really can see Sorensen as the partner. A look at his stats for Esbjerg show a player who clearly was happy to put a foot in, going off the yellow cards he got. 11 in one season in the Danish top flight, including the relegation rounds.

Jacob Lungi Sörensen - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd say Giannoulis is some way ahead of Lewis, and I'd say the Gibson we have now is better than the Godfrey we had then. Hanley now is far better than the one two years ago, and Aarons has two more years of experience. Not to mention Krul has been largely injury-free and consistent throughout the last three years too. However, recruiting a Lees-Melou, who appears to be a McLean upgrade, tells me we're already looking for more pace and power in the middle of the park as that's where we struggled. Gilmour's not going to be a box-to-box man, he's essentially going to act as an upgrade on Leitner or Vrancic (when the latter was a deep-lying playmaker).

I really can see Sorensen as the partner. A look at his stats for Esbjerg show a player who clearly was happy to put a foot in, going off the yellow cards he got. 11 in one season in the Danish top flight, including the relegation rounds.

Jacob Lungi Sörensen - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt

I honestly kind of feel sorry for Lewis given his Newcastle move has not really worked out as planned for him, having been stuck on the bench for most of the season. I mean, sure we made a good profit from his leaving us and all, but now he's become second fiddle at a club ran by Mike Ashley and being mananged by Steve Bruce that's always being pegged for some chaos and relegation scares, he seems to have been kicked out of the Norn Iron team for unknown reasons and he's still not even become a part of Newcastles current pre season.

 

When he does play he always looks good getting forward for them but weak in defence, which honestly make me wonder partly if he could be better off playing as a winger, crazy as that sounds

Edited July 18, 2021 by cambridgeshire canary

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Really, let’s take a look at Steipermann in the championship winning season pre 2019, 43 games played, 9 goals 7 assists. Not too shabby, so why do you think Dowell is better than Steipermann was two years ago? I don’t see that a genius would question Dowell’s ability till he’s played top tier football to make that judgement. Signs are good though!

I dont need to look at statistics. You really only need your eyes to see Dowell is a more talented player than Marco. Just your eyes, nothing else.

If its good enough for the prem I cant say for certain but he certainly has better attributes than Marco in almost every possible way to give him a better chance.

[hogesar 9,618]

17 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

The other issue is whether teams likely to be in and around us in the relegation zone have also improved. I haven't been keeping an eye on Newcastle, Burnley and Brighton for example, but you would have thought with 2 years extra TV money they would be stronger.

We might be slightly more stronger than 2 seasons ago but we're starting from a very low base compared to others. A long way to go in this transfer window though.

It hurts but you're spot on. We could have an exceptional window and still struggle to compete with the teams you've mentioned. Nature of the beast and all that.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

1 minute ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

I honestly kind of feel sorry for Lewis given his Newcastle move has not really worked out as planned for him, having been stuck on the bench for most of the season. I mean, sure we made a good profit from his leaving us and all, but now he's become second fiddle at a club ran by Mike Ashley and being mananged by Steve Bruce that's always being pegged for some chaos and relegation scares.

 

When he does play he always looks good getting forward for them but weak in defence, which honestly make me wonder partly if he could be better off playing as a winger, crazy as that sounds

I think Giannoulis is just an all-round better player. That's not to be critical of Jamal, who was truly mature and professional in his approach (similar to Max), but I think Dimitris has everything Jamal has, and arguably more of it, with the exception of out-and-out top speed and there's an argument that both guys are close to level in stamina terms. And yes, it is a shame to see a thoroughly decent guy for us not quite get his wings at Newcastle.

But we bought in his replacement, a player who looks a fair bit better - especially defensively - and bought him in for half the price we got for Jamal. The really telling thing about GIannoulis is his relative willingness to take balls in tight spaces and his sheer drive to push forward. That got shot in Jamal in the Premier, and he'd start cutting back and slowing things down.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

I think Giannoulis is just an all-round better player. That's not to be critical of Jamal, who was truly mature and professional in his approach (similar to Max), but I think Dimitris has everything Jamal has, and arguably more of it, with the exception of out-and-out top speed and there's an argument that both guys are close to level in stamina terms. And yes, it is a shame to see a thoroughly decent guy for us not quite get his wings at Newcastle.

But we bought in his replacement, a player who looks a fair bit better - especially defensively - and bought him in for half the price we got for Jamal. The really telling thing about GIannoulis is his relative willingness to take balls in tight spaces and his sheer drive to push forward. That got shot in Jamal in the Premier, and he'd start cutting back and slowing things down.

https://www.geordiebootboys.com/news/steve-bruces-delivers-honest-verdict-on-jamal-lewis/

Interesting article, worth a little read

[hogesar 9,618]

3 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

https://www.geordiebootboys.com/news/steve-bruces-delivers-honest-verdict-on-jamal-lewis/

Interesting article, worth a little read

Has to be the least interesting article which literally said nothing of note.

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

3 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

https://www.geordiebootboys.com/news/steve-bruces-delivers-honest-verdict-on-jamal-lewis/

Interesting article, worth a little read

That's the thing. Lewis is a formidable athlete, but in some boot-on-ball matters and his positional sense, he's lacking a bit. Giannoulis is also a heck of an athlete, but has a far more rounded game. Not to mention he's a bit taller too, and can provide some ballast in the air.

[Upo 91]

19 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I agree with most of that; The 2019-20 season has to have an asterisk against it because of the pandemic. You would have to be even more stupidly negative than the most pessimistic poster here to think that if the season had just carried on we would have lost all nine games and scored only one goal. We probably would have been relegated, but with at least 30 points gained.

As to strikers, I suspect that Webber and Farke are not so much now looking for someone who can replace Pukki if he is injured or has lost form, but someone who will be an immediate challenger to that position.

This is a guess, but fits the chronology of how the steers from Carrow Road changed, from being happy with Pukki, Idah and Raschica, to looking for back-up to Pukki, to now. The shift seemed to start after the end of Finland's outing in the Euros. Taking all the mitigating factors into account, I can imagine that W&F saw a struggling Pukki and that concentrated their minds. What if when the season starts either he has still not regained full fitness, or will never regain his ultra-sharpness?

All of those are reasonable concerns and you are of course right that Webber is on the look for the best possible striker.

Anxiety about dependence on Pukki is not new, nor are attempts to alleviate that anxiety. There have been numerous attempts to either share Teemu's burden or give him competition. That was the main topic during 19/20 when it became clear Teemu was worn down, culminating around his toe injury. Ditto for his struggles early last season when even Pinkun journalists capitulated on him.  He proceeded to score 26.

Considering his output and defensive contribution, his direct replacement and competition could be too expensive. Well over £20M.

More realistic is to sign someone who on good day can match Teemu's normal contribution, and on average is no more than a step behind. I think Adam Armstrong is such a player, with potential to match or even surpass Teemu in the future. He is similar enough to Teemu that he could be dropped in and perform well. I think Adam would be available for a price that we could just about afford. Over £15M but under £20M.

[horsefly 4,287]

20 minutes ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

It’s about the same - lost skipp and emi - gained rashica etc 

but we were told we would make a better go of it. So a few weeks left for the board to deliver.

my concern is that we often have the right desire but not enough resources to sign premiership quality players in terms of wages and fees- this seems to be playing out again. 
 

self funding model with poorest owners seems to lead to inevitable relegation, it only takes us so far…

WBA, Fulham, Sheffield all lashed out big cash last season. Transfer spending is clearly an important aspect of pursuing survival, but it is far from the sole determining factor. I would argue that Gibson, Giannoulis, Gilmour, and Dowell are indeed significant upgrades on Godfrey (as he was then), Lewis, Trybal, and Steipermann in the starting line up V Liverpool last time. There also appears to be a greater improvement in the quality of players in reserve (something that cost us dearly last time out as injuries mounted) and there is every reason to expect another two or three players to be added to improve that depth further. Thus, it does seem somewhat OTT to talk about "inevitable relegation" before a ball has been kicked.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Has to be the least interesting article which literally said nothing of note.

Cheers for the input, I'll be sure to file it away in my 'I don't care' folder

[Indy 3,283]

15 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I dont need to look at statistics. You really only need your eyes to see Dowell is a more talented player than Marco. Just your eyes, nothing else.

If its good enough for the prem I cant say for certain but he certainly has better attributes than Marco in almost every possible way to give him a better chance.

Well hogs, as you stated you’re genius and observation talent, have you considered offering yourself to as a scout? 😉👍

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

I hope we will sign another striker, but it's worth remembering that Rashica can also play as a striker, as he did 9 times for Werder Bremen last year, and he's even quicker than Pukki.

Edited July 18, 2021 by Yelloow Since 72

[lake district canary 4,531]

2 hours ago, FatCanary said:

Case in point really. The rest is just conjecture. Remember when Simon Whaley was going to be our new star winger after one preseason game? We may well be using three at the back more often, or it was entirely facilitated by the players we had available for this game, which is quite far from a first eleven in my book, but it is still too early to tell.

Yes really, I did watch the game thank you. I'm just not naive enough to start shoving pegs into holes in mid July. 

So trying out formations in friendlies is a waste of time. I see.

[hogesar 9,618]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

Well hogs, as you stated you’re genius and observation talent, have you considered offering yourself to as a scout? 😉👍

Mate, I really don't think that's the level we're dealing at here 😅 If someone can't distinguish the different in player quality between Dowell and Stiepermann (who I like, by the way), then I can only assume they've very rarely watched football!

[PurpleCanary 5,554]

3 hours ago, Indy said:

Well hogs, as you stated you’re genius and observation talent, have you considered offering yourself to as a scout? 😉👍

You must be joking, Indy. Hogs, as you call him, knows so little about football he actually thinks teams play in formations! Seriously, I am not making this up. He believes players don't just wander around aimlessly but stay in certain supposedly discernable patterns. Of course it is nonsense, like people claiming to see shapes in ink blots. Luckily City1st has been on hand to put him right.🤓

[Canary dwarf 221]

3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'd say Giannoulis is some way ahead of Lewis, and I'd say the Gibson we have now is better than the Godfrey we had then. Hanley now is far better than the one two years ago, and Aarons has two more years of experience. Not to mention Krul has been largely injury-free and consistent throughout the last three years too. However, recruiting a Lees-Melou, who appears to be a McLean upgrade, tells me we're already looking for more pace and power in the middle of the park as that's where we struggled. Gilmour's not going to be a box-to-box man, he's essentially going to act as an upgrade on Leitner or Vrancic (when the latter was a deep-lying playmaker).

I really can see Sorensen as the partner. A look at his stats for Esbjerg show a player who clearly was happy to put a foot in, going off the yellow cards he got. 11 in one season in the Danish top flight, including the relegation rounds.

Jacob Lungi Sörensen - Detailed stats | Transfermarkt

I agree with all this , It's not all doom and gloom obviously the loss of buendia and Skipp is not ideal, but think will get a cb and striker too , no nothing about the French player but if he's a Kenny upgrade then all good

[Samwam27 519]

I'd like to think we try and spend bigger on getting someone to really push Pukki and even replace now or longer term (similar to gunn for Krul)

Ik Rashica can play up front, but we're dependent on Pukki staying fit and scoring goals and Idah stepping up (he has the potential but a big IF) and Rashica adapting to Premiership and also stepping up (all big IF's). I don't mention Hugill as he';s a different type of player.

Other than Billing, I'd hope striker is one of our key positions to strengthen. I'd like Armstrong but fear he's out of our price range, and don't believe this Sargent is the solution. 

[TheGunnShow 5,932]

Anyone else wondering if Andre Ayew would be out of our range?

[Canary dwarf 221]

7 minutes ago, Samwam27 said:

I'd like to think we try and spend bigger on getting someone to really push Pukki and even replace now or longer term (similar to gunn for Krul)

Ik Rashica can play up front, but we're dependent on Pukki staying fit and scoring goals and Idah stepping up (he has the potential but a big IF) and Rashica adapting to Premiership and also stepping up (all big IF's). I don't mention Hugill as he';s a different type of player.

Other than Billing, I'd hope striker is one of our key positions to strengthen. I'd like Armstrong but fear he's out of our price range, and don't believe this Sargent is the solution. 

I'm not so sure he is outta our price range , Blackburn won't get 20 more likely 15 million , he's only 23 got 28 goals last season and can also play in different positions , I think he would be a great get for us.

[Uncle Fred 526]

5 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Anyone else wondering if Andre Ayew would be out of our range?

Cody McDonald would appear out of our range!!

[Midlands Yellow 3,935]

12 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Anyone else wondering if Andre Ayew would be out of our range?

What’s our limit wage wise, £40k a week for the right forward? 

[king canary 7,578]

It's a funny one in that I kind of agree our squad might not be as strong on paper yet I feel pretty confident this squad will make a better fist of staying up than two years ago.

For example Gibson is clearly a less talented overall player than Godfrey but probably more what you need in a relegation battle. I've got concerns about central defence and upfront but I think this squad is more capable of grinding out a few 1-0/2-1 wins and holding onto leads. 

[sgncfc 1,221]

Our squad is much better than it was two years ago already, and they clearly haven't finished yet. Once the striker, midfielder and centre back all arrive, we'll all be confident of survival.

[Petriix 2,834]

I think the majority of the squad is in place and it's all looking pretty solid, if unspectacular. I definitely don't think it's enough to keep us up just yet. It's basically about as strong as it was before all the outgoings at the end of last season; but that's actually incredibly good work considering that we've lost our two best players from the title winning team, and we've likely made a net profit so far.

Now is the crunch though. We need to sign two or three players who will improve the first team and have the ability to win us points. We're going to be fighting a battle every week and need to have people who give us the edge in those tight matches or who can come on from the bench and make an impact. If we're relying on Placheta, Hernandez and Idah then I think we're likely to struggle, so I think we need a couple of really dangerous attackers who will actually scare some defenders. Then it's the centre back area where we were so thin last time out.

It's still early in the window, as everyone is aware, so there's no point judging it at this stage. I'm excited to see who we sign.

[sgncfc 1,221]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Gibson is clearly a less talented overall player than Godfrey

Can of worms you've opened there! Gibson is a much better all round defender than Godfrey was whilst with us (he may well have stepped up since then), which is quite a helpful thing to be when you're playing as a centre back; heading, distribution, positioning, tackling is all better. He's not as good at shooting or charging upfield, and he doesn't "look" as good on the ball or as cultured a player, but I'd much rather have Gibson and £20m odd in the bank than what was a very weak Godfrey in the latter part of that season.

Godfrey may well turn into the Everton version of Van Dijk in time, but when he was with us he was still learning in every game and that, as you intimate, isn't what you need when battling for every point.

It concerns me slightly that we are about to put Andrew O in the same position. A better all round player already than Godfrey, but still way too lightweight for a major role every week.

[1902 1,167]

2 hours ago, Canary dwarf said:

I'm not so sure he is outta our price range , Blackburn won't get 20 more likely 15 million , he's only 23 got 28 goals last season and can also play in different positions , I think he would be a great get for us.

Homegrown, has been a consistent scorer throught his career, still young, he will be more than £15 mi I would have thought.

[Yelloow Since 72 54]

Two striker rumours in the EDP:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-josh-sargent-bid-rejected-8154556 

• USA national team striker, 21 years old, apparently available for €10m but may stay at Bremen. I've read a comment from a Bremen fan saying his playing style matches Pukki nicely.
• Apparently we've had scouts checking out Elijah Adebayo (23 year old Luton striker) in pre-season. Farke said to be a fan. He only joined Luton in February from Walsall, so that would be a rapid rise from League 2 to the Prem in less than 12 months. 5 goals, 2 assists in 18 appearances for Luton.
• Ryan Bertrand signing for Leicester means Luke Thomas (LB) may go out on loan, Norwich are interested

Edited July 18, 2021 by Yelloow Since 72

[cambridgeshire canary 6,675]

1 hour ago, Yelloow Since 72 said:

Two striker rumours in the EDP:

https://www.edp24.co.uk/sport/norwich-city/canaries-ncfc-josh-sargent-bid-rejected-8154556 

• USA national team striker, 21 years old, apparently available for €10m but may stay at Bremen. I've read a comment from a Bremen fan saying his playing style matches Pukki nicely.
• Apparently we've had scouts checking out Elijah Adebayo (23 year old Luton striker) in pre-season. Farke said to be a fan. He only joined Luton in February from Walsall, so that would be a rapid rise from League 2 to the Prem in less than 12 months. 5 goals, 2 assists in 18 appearances for Luton.
• Ryan Bertrand signing for Leicester means Luke Thomas (LB) may go out on loan, Norwich are interested

You're a bit late on the Josh Sargent news, but thanks for the rest