Chiellini

[Uncle Fred 526]

Good competitive clean game no need for red cards spoiling the game 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

15 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

It wasn't a challenge or a tackle though, it was a blatant aggressive act purely to stop the opponent. Shirt pulls are one thing, they happen a lot, but ths was a bit more than a shirt pull and if he had landed badly, could have had serious consequences.

If. Any innocuous tackle, challenge or aerial duel can have serious consequences. Chiellini's shirt pull was a tactical foul, but it was no more dangerous than dozens of any other incidents during a football match.

If you think Chiellini's pull was dangerous, I dread to think what you make of rugby. Legal tackles are more dangerous than that.

[lake district canary 4,531]

1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If. Any innocuous tackle, challenge or aerial duel can have serious consequences. Chiellini's shirt pull was a tactical foul, but it was no more dangerous than dozens of any other incidents during a football match.

If you think Chiellini's pull was dangerous, I dread to think what you make of rugby. Legal tackles are more dangerous than that.

If you did that in a rugby match, wouldn't the perpetrator be sent off for a high tackle?

[Foxy2600 301]

2 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

If. Any innocuous tackle, challenge or aerial duel can have serious consequences. Chiellini's shirt pull was a tactical foul, but it was no more dangerous than dozens of any other incidents during a football match.

If you think Chiellini's pull was dangerous, I dread to think what you make of rugby. Legal tackles are more dangerous than that.

But a scrag tackle is 10 mins in the bin - the Orange Card 📙

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

27 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

If you did that in a rugby match, wouldn't the perpetrator be sent off for a high tackle?

I'm not an expert on the rules of rugby but I'm fairly certain that they would, yes.

However, it wasn't my point.

Even a legal rugby tackle where a 20 stone man crashes into an opponent at waist height is more dangerous and carries a more serious risk of injury than what Chiellini did to Saka. 

[Capt. Pants 4,228]

Chiellini is one of my favourite players of the tournament. Him and Bonucci absolute monsters. Would love Hanley and Gibson to dish out some of that.

Chiellini correctly booked. Can't believe VAR didn't at least check the Jorginho challenge. Straight red all day long.

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Capt. Pants

[cambridgeshire canary 6,716]

2 hours ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Hard to argue clear goalscoring opportunity, but Id still make the argument. We know who is o=going to win that race and so did Chiellini.

The studs up one was as bad as Danielson's imo.

I also think Sterling should have had a penalty. It was way more of a penalty than the one he actually got against Denmark

Problem is when you get a reputation for falling down easily (and diving..) refs will know about it and will ignore you meaning your legitimate claims will often end up ignored

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

6 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Problem is when you get a reputation for falling down easily (and diving..) refs will know about it and will ignore you meaning your legitimate claims will often end up ignored

If only there was a parable involving wolves about such things...

[Coneys Knee 953]

No way was that shirt pull worthy of a red, the tackle on grealish however, that would’ve been a red every single time in the Premier League.

All that said though I think the refereeing for the most part has been decent in this tournament. It’s been quite refreshing to see a few challenges bypassed and the game allowed to flow so overall no complaints from me.

Edited July 12, 2021 by Coneys Knee

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

14 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Chiellini is one of my favourite players of the tournament. Him and Bonucci absolute monsters. Would love Hanley and Gibson to dish out some of that.

Chiellini correctly booked. Can't believe VAR didn't at least check the Jorginho challenge. Straight red all day long.

 

Couldn't agree more. I love Chiellini; he is an absolute warrior and a proper defender. Bonucci, whilst being far less likeable, is also a world class player and that partnership is real throwback to an era when defenders defended first and foremost.

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

Maybe we could sign him, I'm sure his mate Quagriaella still has our number, would probably put in a word for us.

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

2 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Well, if pulling a fast moving player forcefully down on his back isn't dangerous play, I don't know what is.

Then you don't know what is then 😉

[hogesar 9,658]

36 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Problem is when you get a reputation for falling down easily (and diving..) refs will know about it and will ignore you meaning your legitimate claims will often end up ignored

Although with VAR that shouldn't really therefore be an issue.

[king canary 7,605]

i think the Jorginho tackle was saved somewhat by the fact his foot slipped off the ball a bit. If he missed the ball its just a stamp but as he does he can claim the contact wouldn't have happened like that.

[Ekoku: The Ambassador Of The People 122]

A yellow is fair. Jorginho challenge was a red. Regardless, if either was sent off i still don’t think England would know where Italy’s goal was

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

12 minutes ago, king canary said:

i think the Jorginho tackle was saved somewhat by the fact his foot slipped off the ball a bit. If he missed the ball its just a stamp but as he does he can claim the contact wouldn't have happened like that.

Exactly that. Clips ball first, can't do anything but inadvertently hit Grealish, and then an awkward landing afterwards.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

9 minutes ago, king canary said:

i think the Jorginho tackle was saved somewhat by the fact his foot slipped off the ball a bit. If he missed the ball its just a stamp but as he does he can claim the contact wouldn't have happened like that.

That was what undoubtedly saved him, but it shouldn't really make a difference because entering a tackle in that manner is a red card nowadays.

[WD40 720]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

That was what undoubtedly saved him, but it shouldn't really make a difference because entering a tackle in that manner is a red card nowadays.

I totally agree that going into the tackle with studs on top of the ball gave him no chance of actually winning the ball, and a massive high percentage chance of injuring the player. It was dangerous play for me and out of control. Very surprised VAR didn’t take a look.
 

Overall I felt the referee was incredible inconsistent, but inconsistent to both teams. When the referee wasn’t giving those small fouls to either Sterling or Kane the game plan for those players appeared in tatters. Sterling in particular. 

[Crafty Canary 495]

Italy are masters of this type of foul. Never bad enough to merit a red card but I feel there is a case for taking into account the cummulative team total of such fouls. That or issuing yellow cards more frequently so the odds on double yellow red cards increase. Unless refs clamp down on these persistent niggly fouls teams like Italy will carry on. Having said this Italy were worthy winners.

[Greavsy 2,413]

21 minutes ago, WD40 said:

I totally agree that going into the tackle with studs on top of the ball gave him no chance of actually winning the ball, and a massive high percentage chance of injuring the player. It was dangerous play for me and out of control. Very surprised VAR didn’t take a look.
 

Overall I felt the referee was incredible inconsistent, but inconsistent to both teams. When the referee wasn’t giving those small fouls to either Sterling or Kane the game plan for those players appeared in tatters. Sterling in particular. 

Consistently inconsistent?! 

[WD40 720]

1 minute ago, Greavsy said:

Consistently inconsistent?! 

Paradoxically, yes!

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

4 hours ago, lake district canary said:

Anyone take the view that his challenge on Saka was worthy of a red card? In my view that was pretty violent as it sent Saka crashing down on his back.  The tackle on Grealish with studs up was a definite red card too.

It was a yellow in accordance with the rules.

Professional foul, not the last man. 

Clever player, knew it was worth the yellow.

[Greavsy 2,413]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

It was a yellow in accordance with the rules.

Professional foul, not the last man. 

Clever player, knew it was worth the yellow.

Agreed. Hence the terms 'professional foul'  as you say & also 'Taking one for the team' 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Greavsy

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

10 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

Italy are masters of this type of foul. Never bad enough to merit a red card but I feel there is a case for taking into account the cummulative team total of such fouls. That or issuing yellow cards more frequently so the odds on double yellow red cards increase. Unless refs clamp down on these persistent niggly fouls teams like Italy will carry on. Having said this Italy were worthy winners.

There already is, it's called "persistent infringement" - doesn't just apply to players. By that, I mean it can easily be applied to the whole team to stop the age-old tactic of several different players on one side lining up to foul a specific player on the other.

Edited July 12, 2021 by TheGunnShow

[Greavsy 2,413]

Does persistent infringement apply to teams as a whole, or just players (possibly more than one) as individuals ? (if you see what I mean)

 

Edited July 12, 2021 by Greavsy

[Ken Hairy 3,772]

58 minutes ago, king canary said:

i think the Jorginho tackle was saved somewhat by the fact his foot slipped off the ball a bit. If he missed the ball its just a stamp but as he does he can claim the contact wouldn't have happened like that.

Yep totally agree, it's what I said to my mate in the pub last night when he's screaming for a red. 

[BigManInTheBarclay 75]

Shirt pull no, Grealish studs yes

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

35 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

Does persistent infringement apply to teams as a whole, or just players (possibly more than one) as individuals ? (if you see what I mean)

 

In theory, yes. As I said in my previous comment, it's also an option if you get the situation where several players on a team decide to spread the fouling amongst them, usually when focusing on one player in particular. Alternatively, it can be if a few players from the same team start fouling in fairly quick order too.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,820]

3 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

In theory, yes. As I said in my previous comment, it's also an option if you get the situation where several players on a team decide to spread the fouling amongst them, usually when focusing on one player in particular. Alternatively, it can be if a few players from the same team start fouling in fairly quick order too.

I suppose an example would be the Copa America final on Saturday, where four Argentinian players were booked for going in hard on Neymar.

I think fouls on Neymar should be punished rather more leniently, but I guess that's a different subject for another day.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Until we get nasty like Italy, we will never win anything. While we have Sterling falling down at every opportunity and getting the ref believing he is diving, an Italian falls down holding his face in extreme pain. Then he gets his team mates to surround the ref with that pleading gesture that the chap is near death.

Then straightaway Chielini will cynically I would say wrench Saka's shirt and just get a booking while he gets his team mates to using the pleading gesture proclaiming Mrs Chielini's little boy wouldn't harm a fly.

Rugby is trying hard to stamp it out while many say its part of the game. Football appears to want to ignore foul play hence the foul on Grealish being deemed just a yellow. Jorginho's studs were showing went went for the tackle and luckily he got the ball square on or might have put Grealish out of the game.

You can be sent off for kicking the ball away, yellow card and then taking your shirt off in celebration, yellow card.

Football isn't even trying.