How are we all feeling this morning?

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

OK. I am far from the rabid England fan I used to be. Ever since Italia 90 I had followed England passionately. Never missed an England match on the TV. But not really since 2006 I suppose have I felt the passion. I felt more and more disconnected from the England team and took less and less of an interest.

2018 was great to be successful, but we overachieved and whilst I supported the team I never really felt the connection. This also continued all through this tournament, with Southgate's effective yet uninspiring football and crop of players who are far from in their prime and more unfinished products. I've watched all the games, without really connecting. Something I've struggled to really explain.

Last night Id spent ages saying I didnt expect England to win and that it was great just being in the final.

 

But this morning I still cant stop thinking about it. Im in a foul mood and it really hurts. I keep telling myself its only a game of football and it isnt really important and it doesnt matter. But it doesnt help.

 

How is everyone else feeling?

[Petriix 2,834]

I'm pretty tired but mostly positive. I thought we played well enough and only lost by a tiny margin. It feels more like a draw than a defeat, especially since there's no next round to miss out on. Just an arbitrary way to decide who gets the trophy.

I'm probably more positive about the England national set up than at any point. Things look reasonably progressive and I'm hopeful that the evolution will continue. 

Well done for reflecting on your emotions. A lot of the response will be from the adrenaline and testosterone associated with getting worked up over something competitive. It will subside. Try to do something relaxing or get outside for an hour or two.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Echo much of the op and a bit deflated, having got to the final. Having got there, we started well, but failed to adapt or evolve the team during the match to match what Italy did. Just kept going with the containing way of playing and leaving creative players on the bench till too late.  Even the penalty takers coming on was way too late. Could have done better imo.

Edited July 12, 2021 by lake district canary

[TheGunnShow 5,933]

Pretty much the same as usual, but as I wrote on another thread, I don't much care for this notion of patriotism as it appears to me to be taking pride in the achievements of others simply because I was born in the same place. I'll understand, particularly for Saka, Sancho, and Rashford, that they'll have to live with it for the rest of their days and hope they're given the time and space to digest it.

That said, with Southgate in charge, they wouldn't have a more sympathetic England manager for that job.

I'm not going to write here that I'm ultra-disappointed as I've never seen myself as an England fan. But when my first thoughts after the penalty shootout was over were "I hope this doesn't embolden some morons to dish out the abuse", I think we know something's grievously wrong somewhere in our sporting culture.

[pearsos 56]

I’m good thanks, another day closer to proper football returning. Roll on the first game v Liverpool.

[City fan 78]

Same old same old. England fecked up another penalty shoot out. 

[sonyc 5,492]

Well, it IS only a game of football GMD but maybe you're more of a fan than you've reckoned on? The fact that you've kept telling yourself it was simply great to be in a final possibly indicates that underneath you really wanted to connect once again like you used to. The more you try and avoid something often the effect is that the greater it lurks in the background. And yet, who could blame you, given the near hysteria created in the media and even in the BBC studios an hour before the game? Even I had started to hope and feel something good might happen.

Everybody was riding on a high of emotion and hope against hope. Very difficult not to be drawn into all that.To see large parts of the country too united just a little after what we have all been through in the pandemic (and I will steer clear of politics here).

My own feelings concern two things really:

(a) just why didn't we really go for it, to use all this creative youth we have at our disposal? Why didn't the team try and at least match the national psyche (the songs, the spirit etc). Yet, we saw a very safe and cautious performance that belied those first 20 minutes or so. We tried to do a kind of Italy (and nearly achieved it). We've looked best in the tournament playing attacking and expansive football but abandoned that in the most important game. I felt it poor to throw in Sancho, Rashford at the end for the penalties but you'd assume they had planned it? I was dismayed at seeing Kane and Sterling have to come deep into their half to even get the ball (Kane had not one touch in the18 yard box for 120 minutes - until his penalty!)

(b) what a cynical and nasty team Italy are / were, fouling in that second half and especially in extra time. For that reason alone I really wanted England to win, if somehow to show that sportsmanship might win. England kept their composure and that was a great credit. Italy was the better team but so far behind being great sportsmen (imo). It's left me feeling I'm glad we are not like that but unhappy that those tactics so obviously work. As for comments that some wish we were like that I'm not in agreement. 

We will move on soon enough. Nationally, we will go through the nonsense again in a year with the World Cup!

Edited July 12, 2021 by sonyc

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

I just think its such a shame fortune went against us with the penalties again. Italy win things all the time, a win for us would have meant far more to our nation than theirs I think. The feel-good factor after winning would have lasted for months and would have given the whole nation such a lift. Im not sure it does that for Italy in the same way.

I thought Italy were the best team in the tournament so they are deserved winners, but to be so close and ultimately not defeated but to have essentially lost the toss of a coin hurts so much.

Penalties is still the best way to decide games, but it is so cruel

[Danke bitte 965]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Pretty much the same as usual, but as I wrote on another thread, I don't much care for this notion of patriotism as it appears to me to be taking pride in the achievements of others simply because I was born in the same place. I'll understand, particularly for Saka, Sancho, and Rashford, that they'll have to live with it for the rest of their days and hope they're given the time and space to digest it.

That said, with Southgate in charge, they wouldn't have a more sympathetic England manager for that job.

I'm not going to write here that I'm ultra-disappointed as I've never seen myself as an England fan. But when my first thoughts after the penalty shootout was over were "I hope this doesn't embolden some morons to dish out the abuse", I think we know something's grievously wrong somewhere in our sporting culture.

I'm with you on this - only further concreted by the fact the pub I went to last night some man in his 30s started a fight with a girl in her late teens... after spending most of the second half yelling "cnut" at every Italian player on the screen. Albeit I was in the depths of Wanstead having got back from a wedding reception in Norfolk the evening before. 

Because I was generally shattered anyway I had nothing to give the final, I didn't care and was chuffed that England got as far as that.

But the sheen is always worn off by the general knuckle dragging that goes hand in hand with following the national team as per my example above. Having got out of Liverpool St earlier in the day, the streets were swamped by little teenage England fans, all p1ssed up already climbing up all over the place forcing pedestrians onto the road to get past like what you see on TV when fans are abroad.

Yeah that's what I call a party... seems to me, we're always the only country where the "fans" seem to think they get license to be utter bellends. Now why would I want to lend my support to that? 

At least I don't have to hear 'its coming home' for at least another 18 months

Edited July 12, 2021 by Danke bitte
Bitter end note

[sgncfc 1,223]

I've never really bought into the Southgate hype, so I was disappointed but not surprised at how the game panned out. He sets his teams up to not lose - and we didn't, so he is very good at that - but that doesn't entertain or excite me so I care little about how we do. The Croatia semi and last night was effectively the same game, 3 years apart, and I'd hoped he'd have learned more. I'm more depressed by the thought that given this part success, he will never change.

Yes, we got close to winning something but even if we'd won the shootout I'm not sure I'd feel that elated because of the way we go about it now. The over-reaction to the "youth" and "spirit" of this particular squad is just typical of the "noise" surrounding England in a tournament.

Part of me is glad that the Italians won it, because they were by far the most exciting team to watch. I wish we had taken them on rather than just allowed them to dominate.

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Echo much of the op and a bit deflated, having got to the final. Having got there, we started well, but failed to adapt or evolve the team during the match to match what Italy did. Just kept going with the containing way of playing and leaving creative players on the bench till too late.  Even the penalty takers coming on was way too late. Could have done better imo.

Agree entirely. Completely played them off the park in the first half aided by the brilliant start. When they changed to a high press we failed to respond to this adequately and we allowed them to play. Dont know if we were tired but we had nullified them brilliantly in the first half, only to stop doing that in the second.

I also think Gareth has his favourites and this can cloud his judgement. I think most people would question the use of substitutes, especially when we looked tired, Italy had got on top in the game and we werent really stretching their supposed aged centre-backs or playing an effective counter. Mancini made full use of his subs and sadly I think that showed. You could also perhaps argue that if Sancho and Rashford had been more involved in the game they might have taken better penalties.

If we'd have been trounced by Italy I think that would have been easier to take than losing on penalties, which, for fine margins can produce the opposite outcome.

[Midlands Yellow 3,945]

3 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I've never really bought into the Southgate hype, so I was disappointed but not surprised at how the game panned out. He sets his teams up to not lose - and we didn't, so he is very good at that - but that doesn't entertain or excite me so I care little about how we do. The Croatia semi and last night was effectively the same game, 3 years apart, and I'd hoped he'd have learned more. I'm more depressed by the thought that given this part success, he will never change.

Yes, we got close to winning something but even if we'd won the shootout I'm not sure I'd feel that elated because of the way we go about it now. The over-reaction to the "youth" and "spirit" of this particular squad is just typical of the "noise" surrounding England in a tournament.

Part of me is glad that the Italians won it, because they were by far the most exciting team to watch. I wish we had taken them on rather than just allowed them to dominate.

 

 

Bang on the money, imagine having to watch a Southgate side play 38 times a season. 

[hogesar 9,618]

Hanging. Bad.

[Petriix 2,834]

20 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

I've never really bought into the Southgate hype, so I was disappointed but not surprised at how the game panned out. He sets his teams up to not lose - and we didn't, so he is very good at that - but that doesn't entertain or excite me so I care little about how we do. The Croatia semi and last night was effectively the same game, 3 years apart, and I'd hoped he'd have learned more. I'm more depressed by the thought that given this part success, he will never change.

Yes, we got close to winning something but even if we'd won the shootout I'm not sure I'd feel that elated because of the way we go about it now. The over-reaction to the "youth" and "spirit" of this particular squad is just typical of the "noise" surrounding England in a tournament.

Part of me is glad that the Italians won it, because they were by far the most exciting team to watch. I wish we had taken them on rather than just allowed them to dominate.

Did you miss the extra time period which England dominated where the 'exciting' Italians were reduced to being ultra defensive and resorted to continually fouling us in order to scrape through to penalties? 

I agree that we could be a little bit more attacking. I actually think that Phillips is the weak link because the defence seems reluctant to pass it in to his feet under pressure and he doesn't have the creativity to play an incisive pass when surrounded.

I think this area will improve over time. I'd like to see more of Sancho as well, but it's understandable to be a bit 'safety first' in the final against the best other team in the tournament.

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

I thought watching England play was like watching Norwich of old when Hoolahan wasnt playing. More solid but lacking creativity.

Some games have been crying out for Jack Grealish. Im certainly not a Grealish fanboy, but the team looked instantly better with him on the pitch (like Norwich did with Wes).

Grealish was a player you knew wanted the ball and would try to do something with it, either adding some creativity or drawing a foul.

In Grant Holt and Darren Huckerby we have had the league's most fouled player and that is so so useful. When Grealish got the ball either something would happen, a flash of brilliance perhaps, or he'd get fouled, allowing a set piece, or at least a pause in play to calm things down, regroup, re-organise and take the pressure off, disrupt any opposition momentum. Why he didnt give Grealish the whole 30 mins of ET I dont know, but this is what I mean by Gareth having favourites. Sterling clearly is one. Grealish doesnt seem to be.

 

I've said the whole tournament that Southgate has these creative attacking players at his disposal yet seemingly is loathed to use them. Foden, Sancho, Rashford, Grealish - all exerting their influence on the bench

Edited July 12, 2021 by The Great Mass Debater

[canarydan23 4,060]

I'm devastated, to be perfectly honest.

Once France were knocked out, we had the best squad of players in the tournament (as Chiellini put it, our bench could have made the final). We had a favourable draw. We played all bar one of our games at Wembley. We had a one goal lead.

We will never have a more favourable set of conditions to win a major tournament but Southgate squandered an absolutely golden opportunity that may never come round again. This one stings, and probably will do for a while.

[Virtual reality 706]

Deflated and feel like it was an opportunity missed. I don’t follow England as keenly as I used to but I’d have loved to see us win that. On to the World Cup and hopefully our management team have learned from the mistakes of yesterday 

[Capt. Pants 4,202]

Disappointed but ultimately the best team in the tournament won it which I take some comfort from.

It feels a missed opportunity though and I believe Southgate got quite a few things wrong last night, but you can't fault his approach overall. The England squad has great potential but is still very very young. 

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,020]

Quite philosophical about it all, disappointment at losing a game of football is quickly tempered by the fact there are a lot worse things in life that can happen to you............

[Hardhouse44 261]

Who cares if England. I’ve never know any difference. Final/semi/quarters. It matters not unless you win it. Nobody talks about the runners up!

we play it to defensively in my view. Had a wealth of talent on the bench but never saw any.

afraid to replace the stalwarts which begs the question why even bring another striker if you’re  never going to sub Kane. We sat back in hope rather than taking the game to them.

penalties is what we’d settled for after the Italian equaliser. Don’t think Southgate was ever going to go for it after that. An outlook as dull and boring as the man himself and one that will only ever take you so far.

 

[Ward 3 371]

I felt annoyed and deflated. Didn't feel like work but then I realised there's more in the world and I don't feel the same about the game as I did 5 to 6 years ago 

[NFN FC 1,123]

It's the most amount of football I've ever watched of a international tournament. England have done better than I expected but the Italians were better throughout the tournament and deserved the trophy. They were more entertaining to watch. 

The England squad was so young and they've got the time to develop into a very good team. I was thinking that next winter they could do a great job but I'd rather they boycotted the whole tournament! They should be proud of their achievements on and off the pitch. 

Too many of our 'fans' are of the knuckle dragging variety. They've let our nation down with their antics. Laser pens, booing national anthems, booing taking the knee (the players were very clear on why they were doing it) and breaking into Wembley are just some of the ridiculous embarrassments of this tournament. 

I'm very much on the fence on whether I will invest any of my time on supporting England as I am usually left red-faced. 

[KeiranShikari 1,410]

Still just confused at Southgate's choices in that shootout.

[Dean Coneys boots 1,398]

Hungover 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

26 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

Still just confused at Southgate's choices in that shootout.

He said they were the best penalty takers in training.

Although that's different from a game situation, so slightly flawed logic, it is actually the type of answer you'd get from Daniel Farke.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

29 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Too many of our 'fans' are of the knuckle dragging variety. They've let our nation down with their antics. Laser pens, booing national anthems, booing taking the knee (the players were very clear on why they were doing it) and breaking into Wembley are just some of the ridiculous embarrassments of this tournament. 

The problem we have is that our domestic policing of football hooliganism is so good now that the hooligans all became England followers to get the trips abroad to act like morons. 

Italians, Germans, etc, have a far bigger problem with domestic football violence, but that means that ultras etc don't need to involve themselves with their national team.

Uk is the most covered nation with CCTV, facial recognition, 5 year banning orders, etc, our club level policing is top notch. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,424]

We had a good/great opportunity this time to win a Trophy. Home advantage is an enormous factor . 

Until last night Southgate's decisions had worked. Having beaten Croatia, we only needed 1 point from two games, so Southgate set up not to lose against Scotland . Our shape and team selections achieved the goal. We qualified, and as an added bonus won the Group. 

Tournament football = so far so good. 

Against Germany , again good decision borne out by a win. Match up their shape, and allow for the fact that Germany are a relatively poor side.  

Ukraine , we were more expansive allowing our full backs to get forward and allow Sterling and Saka to carry the ball through their lines. 

Denmark - a team good out of possession , but will tire. Southgate used our subs better than Denmark. Again as Denmark tired we ran the ball through lines - forcing an own goal and a penalty in so doing. 

And so to the Final. Italy could have tired, but didn't. Potentially the worst thing we could have done was score early - as it seems to be a scenario that encouraged Southgate to sit on a lead - a literal 5 across the back when out of possession which , particularly in the second 45, was most of the time. Italy equalising was the most certain outcome of the whole tournament as we dropped deeper and allowed space between our lines for Chesia to have his best game of the tournament.

Poor use of subs - waiting for Italy to affect the game far too much before we adopted a 4. the Rice / Henderson replacement was foolish - Rice was probably our best player who carried the ball. Grealish was too late , and the space behind the Italian defence was never breached as the starting position of our forward players were too deep . We resorted to long goal clearances that just came back to us. 

So in conclusion - we did well until the Final, at which point we looked like an old England side, being outthought by international players and coaches. 

But the biggest disappointment is missing 3 pens, two of which my Granny(god rest her soul) could have thrown her cap on, and one that Rashford managed to contrive a miss after the sort of run up that would have got you a 10 in strictly. 

 

So really enjoyed everything until about 30 mins in last night. Then it all unfolded before our eyes. And that's why I was was fed up until the therapy of writing this. 

 

 

 

[The Great Mass Debater 1,078]

My concern with Southgate is that he still behaves like he's in charge of the U21s. Players like Saka, their international careers will be over once they hit 22 and he'll be building for the future once more with some 17 year old in a Chelsea academy

[Unhinged Canary 375]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Hanging. Bad.

Finally. A little bit of honesty.

[......and Smith must score. 1,336]

Not too bothered to be honest.

Fortunate enough to have been alive for World Cup Willie and all that it would have been a big ask to expect them to do it all again in my lifetime. 🙂