Jump to content
duke63

1p5wich Town losses

Recommended Posts

Football finances in general make no sense to me.

Quite honestly the most notable example of transparency is our very own.

We might occasionally get annoyed about Delia's lack of/ inability towards investment but at least we know, more or less, where the financial situation stands.

So Evans has written off £90m+ to once again have a good night's sleep.

So, they lose £160, 000 per week (or have been.)

Since the new "owners" took over (@£30m cost) on April 7th. that would seem to amount to losses, on that form,  of approaching £1.8m already, whilst packing the backroom staff with 'specialists' in every area, including their own (aged) version of Stuart Webber (they seem to have copied the Norwich model in many respects.) They have sold a bit over a million's worth in players (mainly Dozell,) but have spent that on a few bits and pieces performers from mostly lower leagues.

They are swooning at the fact that season ticket sales might reach more than 12, 000.

They will need promotion this season, or that bubble might burst, sooner rather than later. However, the Championship is no bed of roses for those anticipating a return on investment.

Mr. Soccer seems to understand less about the finances of the English game than even Marcus Evans seemed to.

Edited by BroadstairsR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, TheGunnShow said:

At this rate they'll have more trees in the stand than stars on the crest.

and more houses on the training ground than on the Larkman.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bear in mind this is June last year as well.

I bet there is another 10 million plus of losses to add now.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn’t want to be a pensioner of the fund that invested in the binners at best it’s a highly speculative investment or what I can see utterly reckless 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, duke63 said:

Now exceed £100 million.

Some good work done by our agents!

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/00315421/filing-history

I don’t want to be a party pooper but these accounts are prior to the company being sold ? Haven’t the debts been partially written off/ down as part of the sale ? I thought the figure Evans received took into account the debt ? I doubt it still exists at this level? 

I think that’s what some of the “satisfaction of charges” in the other docs relate to . Ie charges that existed on certain assets (similar to mortgages) have been “satisfied” ie they are no longer due ? Most of the debts were owed to Evans in some shape or form. And now they are not . 
 

 

Edited by Graham Paddons Beard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

At this rate they'll have more trees in the stand than stars on the crest.

TBF they'll be able to see plenty of stars through the holes in the roof during evening games.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

I wouldn’t want to be a pensioner of the fund that invested in the binners at best it’s a highly speculative investment or what I can see utterly reckless 

Are you saying they lack ambition? But they brought in rich foreign owners!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Beefy is a legend said:

 

There's a useful summary of this in their local rag. 

https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/ipswich-town/itfc-2020-accounts-8105518

According to that, their annual turnover is £10.6m. That is truly remarkably low. It ties their hands hugely in terms of recruitment due to salary cap rules too and explains why so many players have been released.

 

 

As I said . Most of the debt has gone due to the sale. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

As I said . Most of the debt has gone due to the sale. 

They haven’t solved the underlying reasons for the unprofitable business so they will just start to build up again albeit from a low level 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Uncle Fred said:

They haven’t solved the underlying reasons for the unprofitable business so they will just start to build up again albeit from a low level 

Yes losses of some £8m in the accounts. 

Even though a huge proportion of the £110m+ debt has been written off by Evans during the sale, and even though they have bankrolled owners, the reality is that they can spend very little money on the playing squad due to 60% wage to turnover cap rules in League One.

It doesn't stop the owners spending on infrastructure improvements such as to the stadium etc but that doesn't get them out of L1.

They have their work cut out. 

By comparison, on turnover statistics Norwich City is now a twelve times larger business. If we're Tesco, they're a corner shop...

Edited by Beefy is a legend

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

As I said . Most of the debt has gone due to the sale. 

We realise the debt has been written off, but that doesn't mean that they have suddenly become a profitable business.

They paid £30m for the ****show and have since spent more (new background staff, new players and new paint 😁,) whilst virtually their only source of income has been through the government's furlough scheme and from the sale of Jason Dozell. I suppose advanced season ticket sales will soon register, but they are poor compared to City's.

City would lose money if stuck in the Chumps or lower. It has been a succession of sound appointments aligned with our  our emphasis upon youth (Category 1., training ground improvement, enhanced scouting network etc.) all contributing to our fairly stable financial situation.

A bit of yo-yoing resulting from the above has helped, whilst our fabulous support has been the bedrock.

Edited by BroadstairsR

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

I wouldn’t want to be a pensioner of the fund that invested in the binners at best it’s a highly speculative investment or what I can see utterly reckless 

I doubt the pension fund trustees are that stupid. I would imagine they loaned the £30M at a fixed rate of interest and repayment terms rather like a mortgage. It’s the new owners who have to make a return over and above this. I doubt the pension fund is taking too much risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

We realise the debt has been written off, but that doesn't mean that they have suddenly become a profitable business.

 

No one said it was a profitable business ? Where did I say anything of the sort ? 
 
I was reacting to the triumphant first post saying that the debt now “exceeds”  £100 million . It doesn’t . 
 

PS I was born in Suffolk and hate the Binners. Just in case people think otherwise 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

PS I was born in Suffolk and hate the Binners. Just in case people think otherwise 

Sounds like the exact kind of thing a binner would say.

Binner.

Edited by kick it off
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Time to sell up Portaloo road and wind up the club me thinks

Unfortunately they do not own the Ground. Leased from the Town Council. Usually behind with rent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Crafty Canary said:

I doubt the pension fund trustees are that stupid. I would imagine they loaned the £30M at a fixed rate of interest and repayment terms rather like a mortgage. It’s the new owners who have to make a return over and above this. I doubt the pension fund is taking too much risk.

A responsible UK pension fund would never entertain such a huge risk. The Club has virtually no assets so there is nothing to take a charge (mortgage) to secure any part of the debt. They will be in the same position as Evans I.e. Initial debt circa 25k which eventually rolled up to 100k as there was never any surplus to cover interest let alone repayment of his loan. Do not understand why many huge loans are made to Football Clubs. Take Chelsea for example - they now owe Abromovich around 700 million. Doubt if he will ever be repaid but mainly for tax reasons - at our expense !! - he juggles finances between his various companies. Norwich City are now one of the most financially stable Clubs in the UK.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, vos said:

A responsible UK pension fund would never entertain such a huge risk. The Club has virtually no assets so there is nothing to take a charge (mortgage) to secure any part of the debt. They will be in the same position as Evans I.e. Initial debt circa 25k which eventually rolled up to 100k as there was never any surplus to cover interest let alone repayment of his loan. Do not understand why many huge loans are made to Football Clubs. Take Chelsea for example - they now owe Abromovich around 700 million. Doubt if he will ever be repaid but mainly for tax reasons - at our expense !! - he juggles finances between his various companies. Norwich City are now one of the most financially stable Clubs in the UK.

I would imagine the pension fund has put charges against the new owners non- football assets in the US to secure the loan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Crafty Canary said:

I would imagine the pension fund has put charges against the new owners non- football assets in the US to secure the loan.

The gold star maybe? 😁

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That pension fund is not going to write off any debt unlike Evans. This is all their eggs in one basket. If it fails, more than likely that grotty club will cease to exist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

City would lose money if stuck in the Chumps or lower.

There is no reason why they would have to. Our income is significantly higher that ITFCs and the vast majority of EFL clubs, due to bigger crowds and successful commercial operation. In the Championship we are always likely to have one of the larger non-TV revenues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, vos said:

Do not understand why many huge loans are made to Football Clubs. Take Chelsea for example - they now owe Abromovich around 700 million. Doubt if he will ever be repaid but mainly for tax reasons - at our expense !! - he juggles finances between his various companies. Norwich City are now one of the most financially stable Clubs in the UK.

Two main reasons why loans are made:

1. The owners are fans (Evans at Ipswich; Mel Morris at Derby) or hobbyists/ patrons - Abromovic + Man City owners who can afford it.

2. The interest charged - many clubs are borrowing money at well above the rate that you or I would pay (e.g. Burnley, Southampton)- so it is quite a profitable business. I'd lend at nearly 10% if I had guaranteed call on the assets if it went t*ts up - wouldn't you? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Badger said:

There is no reason why they would have to. Our income is significantly higher that ITFCs and the vast majority of EFL clubs, due to bigger crowds and successful commercial operation. In the Championship we are always likely to have one of the larger non-TV revenues.

I hope you are right. You could well be, but I seem to recall Delia once making a statement to that effect  ... perhaps before the time of successful commercial operations and increased tv revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, they are owned by a pension fund, but what wasn’t clear at first is that this investment is a tiny, tiny fraction of the fund they manage. So if it was all written off tomorrow it would impact them, but it would be insignificant. If they somehow did manage to get to the PL, they could sell out and make a useful profit. Like all cautious professional investors they have spread their risks across a number of different levels of possibilities.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

I hope you are right. You could well be, but I seem to recall Delia once making a statement to that effect  ... perhaps before the time of successful commercial operations and increased tv revenue.

It was probably with reference to wage commitments that they had made. In the medium and long term these could be adjusted (and even in the short term by player sales). In the long run, we will be able to spend more on wages than most teams in the EFL by dint of higher revenue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Yes, they are owned by a pension fund, but what wasn’t clear at first is that this investment is a tiny, tiny fraction of the fund they manage. So if it was all written off tomorrow it would impact them, but it would be insignificant. If they somehow did manage to get to the PL, they could sell out and make a useful profit. Like all cautious professional investors they have spread their risks across a number of different levels of possibilities.

My understanding is that it is ownership "one step removed:" they are a leading shareholder in Gamechanger 20 which actually owns the club. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...